From what I understand bismuth shot is in short supply and pricey. What's the next best shot for waterfowl hunting with old doubles? TX for your replies.

I'm taking my ducks to a Federal Detox Center - you know, run by white coated hacks and enviro-do-gooders!

Dogfox: To my knowledge, the only other non-toxic lead substitute widely "approved" for low-impact use in guns built before 1975 (give or take) is tungsten matrix (brand name Impact by Kent). Unfortunately, it too seems to have about doubled in price lately. Some have opened their choke(s) and shoot steel. The problem there is that modern steel loads are more effective than the first generation of steel because they're hot as hell and will eventually pound an old gun to pieces. TT

Best Bismuth substitute found to date is, ....... lead.

You know, I read all about the closing of the Bismuth factory in the thread a couple of weeks ago. Then someone at the local sporting goods store called to give me a "heads up" that their lead shells were all going up 25% as of July 1st. When I called Mack's Prairie Wings in Stuttgart to stock up on Bismuth "before the shortage", they had plenty in stock and immediately shipped my $400 order. Prices were the same as listed in my Dec. '06 catalog. They also had plenty of Kent TM at the same price as Bismuth.

I also went by the local store and bought a couple of cases of dove loads just in case. I wonder if there is really any problem with the non-tox supply line or if we're just being "managed" into a panic by the ammunition industry.

Oh well, I certainly have plenty of shells now, just in case...Geo

"Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not really plotting against you"....my Mother

We are being "managed" and have been "managed."
If you don't believe this - your being "managed."
Things that go bump in the night, are sometimes really things that go bump in the night.
Btw, your mother was a smart person.

Sounds like there learning from the oil companys

We had a fuel strike a few years ago here in Britain,The motorists boycotted the filling stations for a day or two and economised on their fuel use.Within the week it started a price cutting war at the fuel pumps.If you check your stocks you will find you probably have enough already to last the season.Of course you could always revert to lead and kill your quarry rather than just wounding it.

Lowell you been in the Moonshine again ?

Given the current metals market, I doubt we will see a drop in price soon. In spite of all the bad press, when other metal prices rise, lead rises also.

Metals are traded on the world market and what China does not want India will buy. It goes to the highest bidder.

Dried cracked corn may just be the answer. Even if you miss, your helping the poor little birdies.

Y'all could switch to .410's and cut your shot use by half. Waterfoulers could change over to fishin lures, since it worked for me once I figure it's a viable option.

I figure as long as there is a fair sized market, someone will pursue a solution that fills the need. It may be expensive, but as the population increases and takes more habitat, all outdoor sports requiring natural habitat land are becoming rarer and costlier. So, I figure this sport of hunting will eventually get more and more expensive as the population increases, until it gets impractical for the working Joe (as some of it already has). So be it. It seems that the masses, in general, would rather procreate and deal with the consequences later.

Ballistic Products 7lb Bismuth $142.95. Guess I will figure out some 1oz loads for my 27/8 inch chambered 10ga damascus barreled Parker.

Has anyone tried this?

http://www.ecotungsten.com/shots.html

Builder,
I've purchased two Kilos to try out(#5's) they are not as spherical as I would have thought,but they seem to weigh about the same as lead (168 pellets to the oz,)I loaded some 1 1/8 12 ga loads, but just haven't thad a chance to pattern them.

I am going to purchase some and load some up as well. Remember, Hevi-shot is not spherical either and it patterns very well. I think that it weighs slighlty more then lead.

There is nothing as good as lead though. I am going to try some #5 Eco-tungsten. About 4 years ago, I got up very early and drove about an hour to pass shoot some geese where I have been very successful in the past. I brought my Kent TM loads in the house overnight out of the car as it was very cold. When I arrived I realized that I forgot the TM loads and decided to go out anyway. I had my 16 gauge Grulla with me and only had B&P #6 loads. I grabbed some of them and went down to the creek and waited. As usual, the geese started getting antsy down stream and took off my way to go feed. I dropped two with two shots and quickly reloaded and dropped another. All were stone dead with #6 shot. I remember thinking how great it would be to still be allowed to shoot lead at waterfowl.

Is the eco-tungsten safe for Damascus barrels ?

Don & kevin,
I hope you report back to us your results. It sounds good on their internet site.

jOe,
YOu know that nothing is safe in a Damascus Barrel!

Some of us like to live on the edge.

Have you tried Gold. With a specific gravity 70% higher than lead it should work real good. #6 should be good for big geese & #7½ about right for Mallards. Not sure, but might not be quite as expensive as Bismuth

Does any one know what the fine is if you accidentally shoot a duck or goose using lead shot ?

There is a fine, but fines don't really stop that kind of thing. The part about losing your shotgun and vehicle usually makes folks think twice. Hunting license suspension for a number of years... possible jail time for repeat offences, etc...

Makes Bismuth seem cheap...

Platinum is just a tad higher than Bismuth shot....I guess if you can afford Platinum shot you can afford the stiff fines for shooting lead.

Bismuth No-Tox is out of business due to the death of the owner of the company and patent. This has created a shortage of bismuth shot we are now seeing. I spoke directly to a person at the company, the doors are open but production of product has stopped. I was told production was expected to begin upon the sale of the company. Shortage and any price increase in Bismuth shot is unrelated to the increases in metals such as lead, aluminum etc created by a burgeoning demand in China. Most of the lead in China is going to make car batteries which on average take 22 lbs.

You might find this site informative regarding the cost of shot.....http://www.kitconet.com/charts/metals/base/spot-lead-1y-Large.gif