Well, blast it....I found one. A used Browning Citori Target gun, fixed chokes, adjustable pad, 30-inch tubes, fairly high and wide target rib. There is a fair amount of finish wear on the bottom of the gun and (probably the worst part for me) buggered screws on the trigger guard. The forend has that big blocky trapezoidal shape (which always looked a bit odd to me, being an upland guy), but seems to fit me well-enough, and it opens/closes quite nicely w/no detectable looseness. I've been looking at CZs and newer SKBs (both Turkish) and the feedback on both is clearly mixed, This gun seems a bit older (80s or 90s?) and was built in Utah, so I'm fairly comfortable with overall build quality (where the Turkish stuff is clearly an unknown). It's not a lefty but... it seems fairly ambidextrous w/no palm swells or any detectable cast. The weight seems sufficient to soak-up the recoil of 100 or so rounds casually expended. No case of course, and no choke tubes. Does one really need either? I was looking at $1600 (at a minimum) to get into the game so-to-speak. I'm not so sure a new gun with a plastic case and multiple choke tubes would make me any better (or happier). I was thinking about showing up there tomorrow with some snap caps, a choke gauge, and a fistful of cash? What says the educated crowd here?

It was built in Japan.

It's almost certainly a trap doubles gun.

It may have other modifications besides the adjustable pad.

Caveat Emptor.

You should read up on Citori type - parts can be a problem with the earliest Citori guns.
The date is encoded in the serial number.
The price is pretty modest, if the lever is right of center and the gun is tight on face.
I like Citori durability, and seem to shoot them well.

A few friends have shot them well for years. Very few problems. I never liked the trigger but you might find it fine. Most do. Used gun are subject to decades of customization and alterations so check the chokes and do a full function test. For that matter I would want to shoot it before I bought it. It is used so that should not be a real issue. If you shoot it well and it breaks targets that is about as good as it gets sometimes. Good luck.

"Target guns wear out from the inside out. Hunting guns wear out from the outside in." - Bruce Buck.
An alternative would be to look for an OU model designated for waterfowl hunting. Long, relatively heavy, and probably not beat to death from decades of target shooting. They are often a bargain since autoloaders dominate waterfowl sales.

https://www.midwestgunworks.com/know-your-browning-citori.html

If the worst bit is the trigger guard screws they are easily fixable with a hacksaw ( to deepen an clean up the slot), file, wet and dry, then when looking respectable heat blacking in flaming oil.

The nice thing about the Citori, is that it is very repairable.

And tunable.

However they are also popular, and it sounds like yours is a trap gun that is seen considerable use, and has probably been tinkered with.

I say that because, I have a couple Citori’s that I’ve never removed the trigger guards on them in 25 years, so I can’t imagine why anybody would be inside the internals of a browning at less than 25,000 or more rounds.

Which wouldn’t necessarily wear out anything of importance.

And it would be pretty obvious if it was a high use gun, just by looking at the breech face.

if it just flops open when you push the top lever over, it probably has been on the trap line. They start out pretty tight.

Citori shotguns do experience firing pin erosion with Cheddite primers, particularly the under barrel, so firing pin replacement is a routine service job for high volume shooters.
Trigger guard screw repair or replacement is trivial.
Trap guns should have a close examination, due to their likely higher volume shooting.
The price mentioned is no big sum. You could spend more for a whole lot less, assuming the gun passes examination.

If it’s a double trap model, it will be very tight at the patterning plate.

I’m guessing the big Beavertail forend, and the Morgan adjustable pad, trigger guards been off, it would surprise me if it hadn’t had trigger work done at some time and it’s life.

None of which makes it a bad gun, just be certain that it’s going to make your needs before you start down the road.

I see the sporting clays model with the 30 inch barrels and all the tokens for sale for less than 2000 pretty regularly, so if you can pick one versus the other typically. I prefer the Schnabel forend.

Good old gun ,90% of the problems can be fixed with hammer new springs ans fireing pins.

bill

Thank you all! If this gun works for me, it will be a fairly painless entry into the game of high-volume shooting (for basically the price of an pump-gun). If I find that I'm enjoying and participating in it more-frequently, I can always move-up into a better unit later and peddle this one. This will allow for me to hang with the guys, burn a few shells, and see what I think about it all.

I'll look closely at the firing pins, measure the chokes, snap the trigger on caps several time to get a feel for it (I assume it's mechanical?), and examine the whole gun much more critically (take it all down if allowed). If there is any looseness or the top lever is neutral or to the left I'll pass. Tight chokes don't worry me all that much. Most of the shots at the local ranges are pretty long anyway.

Something nobody has bothered to mention is the fact that if this is a trap gun, and it sounds as if it is, it will have high stock dimensions in the neighborhood of 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 x whatever l.o.p. Unless you are accustomed to "floating" whatever you're shooting by a considerable bit, you will shoot over everything with this gun other than trap targets, and it won't be conducive to alterations either. Not a good choice for SC. Just a caveat for you, Lloyd.
JR

Mr. Roberts, you are correct, it didn't fit as great as I thought it might at first glance. But not to worry, this 1986 gun had been used very hard. The top lever was way past left of center, the trigger was a bit wonky and the standing breech look like the face of a hard-used anvil. For all that, the ejectors worked fairly well and the gun still locked up quite tight, even with the forend off of it. If the seller had been willing to discount the price even a wee-bit I'd of still been tempted, but there was no wiggle so I passed. Hit two other shops and had lunch with my co-pilot. All-in-all, a good afternoon. There was even an older Winchester 101 there that fit me all right, but it was fairly high-miles too and the price was fairly steep. I guess I'm still looking...

I did just hear the the local clubs are back to limiting the shells you can buy to 2 boxes (it had been 4) so.....we're not out of those woods yet either.

Just as a clarification, trap guns aren't likely ideal for sporting clays largely because of their higher combs? Are there any other components that might not be ideal as well? Clearly fixed chokes aren't ideal either, although I'd think mod and full would cover most of the situations I've seen so-far (admittedly, darn few). The older guns are clearly attractive to me because of their more-familiar look (blued steel, real wood, etc.) but very few are left-handed, and most are at-best neutral. Weight here (to soak up the recoil) is a plus but what weight would be optimal? I'd guess around 8 to 9 lbs., but that would be just a guess. The newer Turkish sporting guns are clearly attractive to me (many are being built specifically for us southpaws), but I'm reading some serious horror stories about barrel regulation and bad triggers on many of them, even in some of the better (and more-familiar) named guns. A great price wont feel very good if either of those issues are present, and long-term....that's anyone's guess.

Not hard to see why folks just pony-up the big bucks for the long-established and well-known target guns.

Another question, where do Monte Carlo stocks fit in all of this and how adjustable can they be?

Changing chokes is over rated to me. Yes you could optimize your choke configuration theoretically, on every target, if you had screw in chokes. I shoot a full choked .410 model 42 for 90% of my sporting clay's. The other ten percent are classic pump guns for fun or a side by side. A center pattern hit si the same for 12 to .410. Only your margin of error is different. Good luck in your quest. 90% of the fun in buying is the looking at likely candidates.

Monte Carlo stocks have no place on a sporting clays course, IMO. They shoot too high for 98% of sporting targets. Floating clays above the bead is a great recipe for poor scores. Your gun needs to pattern from 50/50 to 60/40. Much higher than that is problematic.

My Perazzi MX8 is 9 lbs. I like the weight ........ in a Perazzi.

Fixed chokes are fine for sporting. You can use spreaders, like I do, on close, unpredictable presentations, like rabbits. I like fixed modified and modified. Concentrate on the targets, not on what is the most open choke you can use and still get chips. Go for smoke, not chips.

I shot a Browning Citori mid rib donated to our SCTP by a nice man. 32” barrels, but almost clearly a trap gun. The gun shoots a full pattern high, at least for me. I was wondering if the rib was set up for trap to shoot high? Basically, a worthless gun for sporting clays imho. I think our SCTP group should trade that gun off since all our kids are more than turned off by trap (they don’t want to shoot skeet all that much either). I’ve tried to explain to them that trap and skeet are the fundamentals of sporting, but my pleas usually fall on deaf ears. Nevertheless, the Browning trap appears almost worthless for sporting clays, to my eye.

I went through all the foo fah rah during my trap shooting mania...Started off with a budget trap gun, kept upgrading, spending money....A wise old shooter who already had the T shirt told me that I likely wouldnt get much better at age 62....BONG! Reality.....Went back to shooting for fun....He was right...85 now, still shooting, having fun....

In the $700 to $1100 range, for your purposes, I would prefer a low mileage 12 gauge Superposed field gun, a higher quality gun and easy to find in high condition. Don't buy a Superposed or Citori that flops open.

Looking at a long-barreled Miroku at the moment. Anything to be concerned about there? It was clearly a trap gun and the chokes are pretty tight but... It seems to be low miles.

I'd recommend you save yourself some grief and look at a new gun to start out with.

The Citori CXS line is a tremendous value.

Basic plain target guns with good dynamics, a good choke system, decent triggers (mine was 4.5 pounds as delivered), and quite acceptable wood for the price.

You're in the area of $2K.

Guns are in short supply everywhere right now but if you can find a CXS you'll be happy with it I'm sure.

That CSX looks pretty good. That will certainly be where I'd go next if I find that I like this game.

Good luck in your quest, Lloyd. I don’t have any really good suggestions, but, want to watch the topic to see where you end up. My focus was usually on the beer and barbecue that occurs at my club after the clays. In the past, I have used an O/U and an auto loader to position myself solidly for honors in mid pack.
That’s all I’ve got.
Let us know where you end up.

Best,
Ted

There's one at the Lonetree Cabela's for $900 something (or at least there was last week).

Well, I found a used lefty SKB 90TSS that a fellow traded-in to the dealer he bought it from new (he traded-up). It's theoretically had less than two flats of shells through it and I've been reassured that it has none of the Turkish-gun issues I'd been concerned about. Time will tell, of course. I'd been otherwise focused on a very low-miles, Superior Grade 32-inch tubed Miroku trap gun until this one came along. Great price, nice gun but...not a clays gun and not left-handed.

Be aware that there have been some very serious barrel regulation issues with that model, Lloyd. Top barrel is often spot on but the bottom will not be. Try to get an agreement that you can return it if this is the case with it, or maybe pattern test it before buying.

Stan: I had read that as well and pointedly asked the individual that I'm dealing with about it. I have a shooting inspection period of 3 days to confirm the regulation of the tubes and to confirm that the Turkish trigger isn't a problem either. This dealer has been selling these for something like 10-years now and he stated that he's never had a problem with them along those lines. I guess we'll see. I wouldn't have gone this route except for all the southpaw-friendly components this gun was built with. After a lifetime of contortions to shoot right-handed guns, it's a real treat to have something that truly fits. Hopefully, it's worth all the trouble.

Do you have any first hand experience with this model by any chance? I'd be curious to hear if you know any other owners as well. I'm managing my expectations on this one, for sure.

Have you tried to find an older (90’s early 2000’s) SKB 505 or Weatherby Orion ( same gun...different stock shapes and has slab sides)???? I picked my last one up for $500 in great condition. Bomb proof. Tough as nails. Field dimensions which can translate into sporting clays, and best of all, parts are readily available. Chokes are also readily available. I use Trulocks on mine and I use my SKB as a duck gun. It’s a beast.
I just can’t bring myself to invest/like/want a Turkish gun. They give me the heebeejeebees. :-)

No question, the Japan-built guns will be superior in a number of ways. But....the reviews are either wonderful or crap over on the trapgun forum. My Turkish Dickenson has been a fine gun to this point so they can do it right when they want to. It's not like I'm planning to become a major competitor with this thing anyway. With shells at $18 box locally at the moment, I'll be lucky to get it function tested. Like I said earlier, time will tell.

I do not have any first hand experience with that gun, Lloyd. but, going on my past experiences with Turkish guns the main issue I have seen with them are faulty single triggers on their O/U guns. Why that is, when my experiences with single triggers on their S X Ss have been so good, I do not know. The barrel regulation issue isn't a Turkish thing, either. I have seen horrible regulation on Beretta O/U target guns. Beretta's reply is that if the two barrels print within 8" of each other they're within their specs. I don't recall at what distance, but 8" ? ............that's horrible.

Appreciate that Stan. I'd read about the Beretta problem as well. The CZ target gun that started all this had a fairly decent single trigger so...who knows? I realize that I'm sticking my neck out here just a bit, but what the heck? It's not like it's a bunch of money (and mostly paid for by moving guns I just wasn't using). If it works as advertised, hooray! If it doesn't....I guess I'll be able to testify as to the abilities of the SKB service folks in Omaha and the honesty of this dealer up in Vermont. These are all first world problems which I actually feel quite blessed to have.

Perfection is where you find it. I was given a new Yildiz S X S .410 years ago as a gift for planting food plots for a friend. I think it is called the Elegante 4. He caught it on sale and paid $449 for the gun, new in box. The trigger was clean but too hard. I took it apart and stoned the surfaces to a higher polish and it got the pull down to around 3 1/2# (single trigger). The innards of that little cheapo were polished beautifully. Over the years since, that trigger has never failed once. Regulation of the barrels is perfect with 11/16 oz. loads, and it has man sized dimensions.



Here's hoping the SKB is all you want it to be. There's a saying that goes "some days you get the bear ......... some days the bear gets you". Hope you get the bear.

Stan:

It would appear that I got the bear this time.



Took it out and shot it. The patterning board that used to be there is gone, so....couldn't confirm that part of it, but it breaks clays very nicely. At 9 lbs you don't really feel much recoil, even with the older 1 1/8 oz semi-warm Remington target loads I was using. The trigger was fine and it fits me like it was made for me (because as a true lefty-gun, it really was). Wouldn't want to tote this thing over hill & dale all day, but for a target gun (and for my rather simple needs) it should be fine. Couldn't fault the build quality in any way. Most of the newer SKBs I've seen have a bright receiver (which I'm not a big fan of) but this one doesn't, thankfully (& probably why I bought it). The wood and bluing are very respectable, the balance is about 1/2 of an inch ahead of the hinge-pin (which seems about right for me), and the fit and finish is quite decent. The Turks have come far, at least here it would seem. The comb and the LOP are massively adjustable but I don't really see a need. It is also very-much like a new gun (no dings or bangs, no worn finishes) so the dealer was accurate in his description of it (nice when that happens). In it's original packaging (with all of the accessories), it was smudged with fingerprints and over-lubed, but that cleaned up easily. I'll shoot it a full round with it tomorrow with some friends to confirm everything but....it looks like bear for dinner here.

Good deal, Lloyd. For a target gun, I like the looks of it. And, with good triggers, you're ahead of the game.

Here's hoping it has few misses in it.

You done real good, Lloyd.
JR

Thank you John. Now all i have to do is find enough ammo to feed it w/o going bankrupt.

!