I have a question about a Kasuga, Tokyo SxS I picked up a few years ago. I can't find much information about the maker or the proof marks. It appears to be a quality built shotgun.

12 Gauge
Chokes IC and Mod
Weight Six pounds, 8 ounces
27" Barrels
Pistol Grip
3" Chamber by measurement
Manual Safety
No butt plate
Hand engraved with setter on one side and pheasants on the other.
1/2" Sling swivels

The water table is marked "STEEL" and "STEEL", one for each barrel.
The underside of the barrels are marked "STEEL" and "CHOKE" one for each barrel.

Do these proof marks indicate the shotgun can safely handle steel shot?

https://www.shotguns.se/html/japan.html

not much but a start

Mike

Thanks Mike, I'll take a look.

Ken

It should have a fleur de lys proof mark if steel shot compatible, I think. Looks high quality with chopper lump barrels.

Buzz, the only proof marks are shown in the photos. Nothing more on the barrels. No fleur de lys that I can see.

I know nothing about the proof marks, that said I think you'd be OK if the chokes are no tighter than mod. The chokes are not marked, at least not obviously, so a measurement to find the constriction. With the 3" chamber it seems that the gun was made with steel in mind, especially in a 6.5 # gun.

Thanks for responding Chief. I mic'd the chokes to Imp/Mod so no tighter. Your logic of 3" chamber being made for steel seems good. What did you mean especially in a 6.5# gun? Not sure if that's heavy or light as far as double's go.

Hi Ken, 6.5# in a 12 is nicely light, a good walking/hunting gun weight. A typical 3" lead load would likely be a "kicker" in that gun. There are very few 2.75" steel loads in 12, everything in 3".
Chief

There were lots of 3” lead loads produced before the mandate of non toxic shot for waterfowl or other hunting. I don’t see anything here that says this is a steel shot tolerant shotgun. I’d guess quite the opposite, the makers had no idea people would be using steel shot, as I’m thinking it is way older than the late 1970s, when steel shot became a thing.
That said, steel has come a ways since it was first stuffed down our throats, and into our guns. If you are talking a steady diet of steel loads, especially 3” versions, that gun will soon change your mind on that, as noted already. Sneaking an upland load in, here and there would likely be OK.

Good luck. I don’t feed steel to any double guns I own that I care about.

Best,
Ted

Ahh...that makes sense. I look forward to using it for upland game.

Thanks Ted for responding. I've used a bunch of 3" 12 and 20 gauge shells in my old single shots. They kicked like a mule but as a young man I was too dumb to know any better (smile).

As an aging hunter, I doubt I go through 2 boxes of shells per year. I seem to do more slow walking and not so much shooting but I do love the look and carry of a nice double. It just feels right when I aim it. I will still alternately carry my Remington 1900 in 12 ga, 32 inch barrels and a couple of pounds heavier. It's been with me for nearly 50 years and is so well trained that it almost gets the birds without me (smile).

Ted, just wondering, I get the impression that you don't like steel shot and feel that it was pushed on shooters against their will. If so then I can relate as I don't like the steel shot either. I'm aware that some locations are only open to hunting with steel shot. So if I happen to be at one of those locations I really would like to know if my shotgun was built to handle steel.

I know you mentioned that you see nothing that would indicate that it is built to handle steel. From all of the known and recognizable steel proofs I'm aware of none are found on my double. However, it seems obvious to me and I think it's obvious to any shooter that my Kasuga is made from steel. It doesn't really make sense to me that they marked it steel because it's built from steel, rather I suspect that the steel proof is just that, a proof mark that the shotgun is safe for use with steel shot.

I found a couple of other Kasuga doubles on the web, both were documented as made in 1970's to 1980's. If the dates are accurate, then my shotgun would have been produced very late in the companies production. I think that Kasuga closed their doors mid 1980's. My serial number is quite a bit higher than the other two I've seen.

Any other opinions from forum members?

Thanks in advance

Japan was/is not a member of Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives (CIP)
A gun intended for the U.S. market would not require CIP proof markings ie. the fleur-de-lys.

I tried to find some images of other Kasuga action flats without success.

I think (an opinion which is worth nothing) that "Steel" means steel shot compatible IF the chokes are steel shot compatible.

"Choke" and "Steel" marks
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=518624

Kasuga with "Steel" mark
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=333766

No image but "Steel" mark
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=312452

More discussion
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=330316

Thanks Drew, your information is much appreciated. Because Japan was not a member of CIP, we would not expect to see a fleur-de-lys but hopefully we may see some other method of marking Steel Proofed. On the other Kasuga doubles that I've seen images of, there are no "STEEL" proofs. Each of the other Kasuga shotguns had a much lower serial number indicating my shotgun was a very late production. Perhaps the latest Kasuga's were proofed for steel and marked as such.

The first two appear to have the "CHOKE" and "STEEL" proofs and the last one not produced by Kasuga was purchased in 1983 and is marked "STEEL". Were some Japanese shotgun makers using the "STEEL" proof as ok for steel shot? It kinda makes sense.

I guess if I had to use a double in a place that requires non toxic shot, I’d use one of the alternatives. I have a Nitro special 16 that I feed Heavi-metal #6s on the Federal WMA in Sherburn county. A side note, the guy who sold me 40 rounds or so of the stuff said they were crummy loads for duck hunting, but, they kill grouse just fine.

If you don’t shoot very many a year, cost of bismuth, Heavi-metal, or, whatever, is no big deal. If you get busted by the Feds with lead shot on the WMA that is a really big deal. You might get invited to the auction where they sell your gun and truck, or, you might still be in the slam.

Best,
Ted

Thanks Ted for the warning, helpful to keep in mind.

If anyone is thinking of hunting where lead is banned use non-toxic shot. If you can't afford the high priced non-toxic, use regular steel. The damage your shotgun may incur will be less costly than loosing your vehicle, firearm and freedom.

Ken I'll leave you with this. That's a really nice shotgun, you asked about steel shot and I maintain that you'd likely be OK, chokes etc. That said if it were mine I'd not do that. Barrels on that gun are irreplaceable. No barrels, no gun. I have no idea what you have in it and it doesn't matter, a box of TM or bismuth would be much less!

Chief