At the Medford shoot my Nephew experienced 4 occasions where the gun fired upon closing. 1 with the right and 3 on the left He said that his finger was nowhere near the triggers and the safety was on safe. ( very experienced shooter). I used the gun for over 150 shots and had no problems. Owned this for over 8 years without a problem. I tried to duplicate this condition and firing the gun with snap caps removing the locks for inspection after each cycle duplicated the condition 1 time. By not opening the gun fully after ejection the sear was not engaged and the safety sear was just barely engaged. I think he opened the gun just far enough to trip the ejectors and did not complete the cocking sequence. He held the gun in is left and his right just behind the breech to cup the shells upon ejection and did not open the gun fully all of the time. The sequence must be preformed properly to safely operate it. I will pay attention to this the future and hope the problem has been identified. Is my conclusion sound?

The timing may indeed be off slightly in the gun. The ejectors should trip at the same time or slightly after the gun comes to full cock.

thank's SKB I had not considered that. My Gant is 127 years old after all.

Eric: Obviously not a Grant, but one of my farm implement ejector Smith guns fired on closing. This is David Williamson's image and upper edge of the sear, after thousands of shots (and usually the right), can become rounded.
As you observed, if the barrels are not fully opened, the sear is not fully seated in the notch. Smiths often need an extra effort at the end while opening the barrels, after the ejectors have tripped, to fully cock the hammers.



The cure is a very good gunsmith with a small file and giving the barrels that extra push.

As mentioned the timing on these guns are sensitive and if off by a very small amount can be a problem. I had a high end Garbi that 1 side sometime failed to cock completely but the safety sear was pushed into place.

The gun should cock. and you can feel it .then it should eject it should not eject then cock the tumbler .i wouldn't mess with the the sear and bent I would look at the ejector in the forend .and I wouldn't modif a working part to make a worn one work

May I ask which style of ejectors?

If like the Southgate, the above is highly likely.

If Grant patent ejectors (look for cylinder), then take a look at the whole system. These had a coil spring. If that isn’t the right metal with the right tension…

Baker south gate and deeley the sear goes in the bent then it ejects I don't know why any ejector would be timed any different I have never worked on a grant PaT .ejector but I don't see why it would be timed not to cock the action first

Grant is like the Boss and the Baker I guess. The problem is the Grant mechanism is not robust. They frequently were also added after the fact.

Drew. that is my line of thought. That the gun has to be fully opened after the ejectors activate to bring the hammers and sears to full engagement. If not fully opened it could be like short stroking a pump gun. There must be a reason for the barrel stop to allow the hammer and sears to come to full engagement. On the rare occasion if I feel that I have not performed the cocking sequence after ejection I close the gun and repeat the process and then load the next shells. The one time I duplicated the condition the cycle was not finished, not allowing the gun to come to full cock. As I said this gun has never given my any problems. Montana, the gun has the Grant patent ejectors used prior to 1895 when they transitioned to the simpler and more reliable ejector system. Finish and tolerances of the cocking parts have a very small window to time the cycle. The parts do not exhibit any wear that I can note. Everything operates freely and smoothly.

that is the opposite of the timing on most ejector guns the gun cocks the tumbler then ejects you don't push the barrels all the way open to cock the tumblers.if you had a problem of this gun fireing because it wasn't pushed open all the way I would have it fixed or not use it some one will get hurt

I will agree with Mark on this. You may not be able to see any wear but it is out of time. Have a knowledgeable smith look it over before something terrible happens. I'm not taking anymore repair work in this year but several ACGG members may be able to help you.
Steve

I own Stephen Grant SLE 6030 (side lever no 2 of a pair) delivered to it's original owner on 8 August 1889. This gun has the first series Stephen Grant ejector system which was designed by Stephen Grant the younger. Your 1894 Grant likely has the second series ejector system that does not require the tumblers (hammers) to have a cam shoulder at the bottom of the tumbler to move the ejector tripper arm to the left or right when the gun is fired--this was a significant improvement over the first series Grant ejector system. On my gun that I bought from Thad Scott about 20 years ago I had to completely rebuild the ejector and locks (new tumblers, bridles, ejector cocking links, cocking arms, locking bolts and a number of other parts) to restore it to first class position. I sent the gun over to England to reproofed for 2 3/4 inch and re-engraved the action afterwards.

I suspect that your Stephen Grant needs new cocking levers which are not difficult to make. I make them of O-1 alloy steel and would recommend to you that you ask your gunmaker to do the same. Of course, there may be other issues that need re-building as well.

Those of you who are reading this comment, will wonder why would I rebuild and restore my Stephen Grant and spend the great deal of time to do so and that is a very good question. Here is the answer. When I viewed the photos of Stephen Grant 6030 sent to me by Thad Scott I immediately saw that this Grant sidelever did not look like as it should--- it looked like a Boss gun--no fluted fences. When I received the Grant from Thad there was a whole litany of things wrong with it, but I wanted to disassemble the gun first before I sent it back to him (which I did not) and to see if it was what I suspected it to be (a John Robertson built Stephen Grant gun) Upon disassembly and examining the inside of the rear of the action there just as I expected was the stamped initials of John Robertson (J.R.) So what I received from Thad was a Grant gun that needed a complete repair (that I could do without spending thousands of dollars having done by another) and I also had what Donald Dallas told me later in a letter (and 2 years ago at the Southern side by side) the earliest known prototype of what would later be John Robertson's famous Boss SLE. --The action of my Grant has Chilton locks that are so early that they arre without a tumbler forward stop/anvil; and has the classic Boss style intercepting sears.

10 years ago I stopped by Boss workshop at Kew Bridge north of London and showed them the photos of my Stephen Grant 6030 of 1889 and they were equally amazed as I was when I received it from Thad.

Before I forget about it I need to say that this Grant SLE does not have the original barrels but was re-barreled (30 inch) in 1970 by someone in the UK and London proofed at 2 1/2 inch; and as I have stated above I had it reproofed for 2 3/4 inch --Malcolm Cruxton who shop is still even today in Price Street, Birmingham, England prepared the gun for proof for me as well as sending it to one of his friends for re-blacking of the barrels as I have never learned the secret of how the Johnson's and his grandson are able to get the perfect gloss finish on rust blued barrels--I can almost get there but not quite perfect as Mr.Paul Stevens does it today.

If you want to ask me specific questions about the task that your Grant likely needs just send me a PM and if you want a discussion send me your phone number in the PM and I will call you.

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell

Do you have pictures?

Mr.bushveld does your grant cock the tumblers before ejecting?

mc; Yes, it does cock before ejecting. I made the tumblers as well as the cocking levers to make certain that it did cock before ejecting. However, even the old tumblers and cocking levers cocked before ejecting as they should have done--there were other problems with their condition that caused me to replace them as well as the bridles which were cracked. I made the new bridles without tear drop opening slightly thicker to increase their strength--and as with the cocking levers I made them of O-1 alloy steel.

Stephen Howell

mc; I will look and see if I have some photos, I am certain that I have some photos when I completed the re-engraving. Send me a PM with your email address and I will send you a email and attach the photo.

I looked in my old electronic files and I have photos of how the first series Grant locks and ejector links as well as a photo of the John Robertson initials in the back of the action. Also before and after the action was re-engraved. I can send these to you as well.

Stephen Howell

I shot and hunted vintage guns for quite a few years....I got rid of all mine mainly because the two people that were close by that could repair them were gone.

One thing I came away with.....

Guns that old are past their intended service life.

An ignorant statement as usual. I find that vintage guns serve my needs quite well.





Try getting off that fat arse of yours frAnk and putting some time in the field.

Im sure they do....an occasional plink and a few photo ops.

What do you think the intended service life of a gun is ?

I think it is fair to say I spend plenty of time afield each year. Last fall I spent about 60 days hunting. My vintage guns performed flawlessly as usual.

Intended working life of a gun? Many generations when well maintained, the H&H pictured above is approaching 100 years old and the Wm. Moore rifle is close to 200 years old.

Thank you Stephen and everyone who contributed to this discussion. Would anyone have a list of smiths who know Grant guns? I have much to consider I still wonder why I've not had this problem when operating this firearm. I have shot this gun several thousands of times in the years I have owned it. I shot about 150 shells after my Nephew experienced he problem and it seemed to work just as before for me.

You are opening the gun fully on every cycle where your nephew was not, he was opening it far enough to eject but not enough to cock the tumblers. Start here when looking for qualified smiths:

https://www.acgg.org/index.php/membership/find-a-member.html

Sounds like pilot error !!!

Nope, sounds like faulty timing.

I have several guns over 100 years that never give me a problem the one gun I have had the longest is a 1926 lc smith fw ejector and it was the only shotgun I had for 20 years I cleaned it and took care of it and had no problems my favorite is a scott
Monte Carlo b 30 in.ne1892 mfg.if maintained property give great service

Eric;

There is a gunsmith across the lake from you near Traverse City, MI by the name of Delbert Whitman who has an excellent reputation and as a matter of fact he authored a article in the latest Sep/Oct 2021 issue of Shooting Sportsman magazine. If I were you I would give him a call and see when he could repair your Grant. Do not be concerned about the Grant being difficult to repair, which it is not. I personally know of work that Whitman has done and his reputation is spotless. Take the ferry across Lake Michigan and visit with Whitman and see for yourself about him.

Stephen Howell

Eric;

I thought I would add some information for you concerning the failure of your Grant SLE gun to fully cock the tumbler/hammer. In my experience, the more likely cause of this issue is that the cocking levers pivot pin/screw is worn or the cocking lever pivot hole is worn (both hole and pin are likely worn combined).

Stephen Howell