Does anyone take a second shot at grouse? I don't hunt grouse (they don't live near here) but have long wondered if the second shot is useful. From hunting stories I read, it seems that the bird takes off through the trees like a rocket and one is fortunate to get a single hurried shot.

"Tap" Tappley, who wrote the "Tap's Tips" column for Field and Stream for many years bought his son a Savage 220 hammerless single shot 20 ga. for grouse hunting. Is it possible that that a quick, light single shot is the ideal grouse gun?

A single shot would just about eliminate the chance for a double! It would also eliminate the happy circumstance of having instant choke selection when the moment calls for it.
Don’t tell anybody, but, I got a double with a Remington model 17 pump, missing the first shot at the bird, connecting on the second, and connecting on the second bird with the third shot, a shot that was far enough away the buddy who witnessed it figured the bird was lost.
My Gordon had other thoughts.

Best,
Ted

Definitely worth having two shots available....the first shot is usually me going "Holy crap, theres a whizing brown thing over that way, I'll try and shoot in front of it" The second is me going..."oh, now I'll take a real poke".
OR, there's three birds in the tree, and my hunting partner J-MAN points up at them, and we shoot a couple as they flush from the tree...(of course I would never, ever shoot a Grouse that was not on the wing!).......now my hunting partner...he likes the taste of Grouse and I however cannot control his actions :-)

I kill most of my birds with the second shot (I get surprised often as well). Single shots can be great bird guns but....as Ted has mentioned, even a third shot can be very useful. Maybe it's different for other folks but... I've never found grouse hunting to be very predictable. Options for additional shots are usually a good idea in the environs where I generally find myself.

I like ruffed grouse hunting with my Tolley single shot. You are either on it or you aren’t. But I also like hunting them with some of my SxS and definitely will have plenty of reason to use the second barrel.

We do not have ruffs here but we do have dusky(blue) grouse, I make good use of my second barrel on them.

Not to be too pedantic, but among the people I know that keep track of these things, first shot kill percentages are much lower than second.

Lots of factors, primarily haste.

Re instant choke selection, I can recall two occasions when I've gone to the rear trigger for the first shot to take a chance at a grouse that's well out there. Worked both times. But IMO it's not nearly as critical as being able to select the tight barrel first as it is on pheasants. I can recall one ringneck hunt in Iowa where I went back trigger first on 3 roosters in a row. Worked well twice. I might have gotten a little cocky the 3rd time.

Re Tap's son Bill . . . I expect some know the story, but Burton Spiller ("Grouse Feathers" and other books) was Tap's hunting partner. As he neared the end of his hunting days, he asked Bill Tapply if he could handle that little Savage single shot. He asked Bill if they could trade guns for the day. (Spiller's was a Parker V grade 20ga.) At the end of the day, Spiller told Bill to keep the Parker and he'd keep the Savage. Morris Baker of RST now owns the Parker.

Sometimes the first shot isn't always on accurate point. It takes the second shot to focus in on.

I grew up using a single shot 12 and shot lots of ruffed grouse. It took a few years for me to learn to slow down and wait for a good opportunity. I longed for a double barrel, but the reality was the single barrel forced me to be disciplined in choosing my shots. Today I have several doubles, but choose my shots carefully. Usually only fire one round at a bird. Doubles are not unusual.

On the other hand, if you know you only have one shot you will make the best of it. I enjoy hunting with my singles (an Army& Navy hammer 20ga, and a BSA 12ga Snipe model)...Geo

No warning shots, eh?

Sounds like grouse hunting is a lot like hunting woods quail, flailing about with one foot on a stump and one in a cow pie. Fun times.

Not sure how it works with a dog (I’ve never had a chance to hunt grouse over a dog), but I recall several times where a grouse was flushed, one shot fired, then a second grouse flushed (I learned not to break my gun open too quickly if my second barrel was unfired).

I also recall, on at least one occasion, firing my right barrel too early and my left barrel too late. In those cases, I just knew if I had a middle barrel I would have connected. 😆

I enjoy using a single at times for doves. My only one right now is an Iver Johnson Special Trap, an inexpensive 32" trap gun from yesteryear. It was the only SBT ever produced in America with an external hammer. I hope to one day acquire a nice English fowler.

There is no doubt in my mind that limiting ones' self to one shot makes a better shot of you. It's the same principle, IMO, that I found when I quit using screw-in chokes in competition sporting clays, and went to two fixed .020" chokes in my Perazzi. My mind was less cluttered with thoughts of which choke I needed for that particular station, and more focused on the shot. Both are ways to "outsmart yourself", so to speak.

I concur with the prior assessments of the second barrel. The first shot is often rushed and hurried.The Second shot is measured and Usually a much more productive shot. The problem occurs when two shots are taken at one bird and a second bird launches. This happens more than one might imagine. In such instances, The owner of a fine double pines for a model 12…or a Fanzoj triple barrel!

Not I. What I can't get with two shots is welcome to go. I have been known to tip my hat to an "escapee" that I missed, or that flushed late. The only reason I ever shoot a repeater at game is just to give my little vintage 20 ga. pump some use, and I haven't done that in about 6 years. Actually, if I ever use it again on birds I'll load just two shells.

My first shotgun was a Savage 220 in 16 gauge, with a factory Polychoke and ejector. I hunted dove, quail, pheasant, deer, and small game with that gun. I missed the second shot badly with quail and pheasant, not so much in a dove field.

It's usually not until later in the season when the leaves are down that I get the chance for a clear second shot at ruffed grouse. I wish I could say I never need a second shot. But there are those times that a second bird flushes right after the first shot is taken, so it is nice to not be standing there with an empty gun watching it sail away.

I believe, most grouse I have taken, have fallen from pulling the second trigger. Without that second shot, I would have never taken a true double in upstate NY. I'll never forget those two bird's; a lot of flushes and shooting, but only took home the two birds which ended up at the taxidermist.

Rich

As a 13 year old growing up in the country, upper midwest US, I was all about bringing home the ruffed grouse and other game. The sport part of my hunting was to follow the hunting laws and to aim well. On one outing I spotted 5 grouse on the logging road ahead of me. Being hard to hit on the fly, I aimed at the center of the group and fired my Stevens 12 gauge single. I levered it open and the empty ejected and I slipped the round from my left hand into the chamber. I did this while running towards my kill. As I reached a dead grouse two more were on the ground flapping wildly. I stomped on their heads as I ran by and I scooped up a forth grouse by the neck. The fifth grouse was taking to the air and I took aim and fired. It dropped immediately. I felt like I was in shock, five grouse with two shots from my single 12. Well with a bit of stomping and neck ringing as well. After that day I never got better than a double but not for lack of trying.

I'm always very weary of a Grouse hunter with a single shot shotgun. Next to the .22, its the most popular type of gun for road hunting/ground sluicing slobs.

And I am very appreciative of having a second barrel on the ready. I suspect that the guys pointing out the higher number of hits with the second barrel are right. I never tracked it, bit at least for me a good number of my birds are brought down with the second shot for the reasons already stated.

And its a whole different ball game if I connect with the first shot. OH what to do...? Stand ready for more flushes? Quickly reload the first barrel before another goes up? As Ted would say these are good problems to have, but the answer is more obvious if I already discharged both barrels.

More than a century ago, organized shoots involved bird handlers releasing quail or pheasants from a cage by sliding an end panel up (also called a sluice, named after irrigation sluice gates) to release the birds to a waiting shooter. When the sluice was lifted, the birds ran out. If the shooter shot before they took flight it was considered a shameful act.

Today, some shooters consider the shooting of a game bird on the ground a shameful act. Likely an uneducated throwback to the late 1800's. For today's hunters who walk 5+ miles looking for a grouse and who traverse every type of brush, tag alder, black berry brush, etc...while ready to take aim, it is a very different experience. These hunters may get a shot or may not during the entire hunt. If birds are flushed, they almost never flush into the open where a shot is afforded, rather they flush towards the thickest, nastiness and are usually out of sight before a hunter can lift his/her shotgun.

Don't disparage a real hunter who puts in sweat equity to earn a single chance at bringing home a grouse.

Here out west….we also hunt forest grouse. Blues (dusky) and Ruffs. There are many times that you cannot get the birds to flush out of the trees and even getting them to flush from under cover can be a chore. I’ve literally yelled at them…thrown sticks & rocks at them, all in an attempt to get them to take to wing. I’ve even shook the tree or branches they are sitting on to try and stir em up. Sometimes it works, a lot of the times it doesn’t.
Yep…..to some of you the Ruff is the king of upland birds…to a lot of us out west, the ruff is in the same class as a squirrel. They prefer to sit on a branch, stare at you and make little noises rather than flush sight unseen. In some years you can go up into the mountains and shoot limits of blues and ruffs on one hunt..walking up a single draw…with very little challenge. It sort of takes the fun out of it.

Very similar to hunting Spruce Grouse in Alaska. Not very challenging. People who’ve been there and done that know what I’m talking about.

Road hunting or ground sluicing game birds is much more ethical than pretending to support gun rights, and then voting for known anti-gun Democrats. But a number of Liberals here are able to justify such irrational behavior without ever pressing their political choices to respect the 2nd Amendment Rights of law abiding citizens.

I want to shoot my grouse on the wing in a fair chase hunt. And there have been many times I did exactly that while carrying a single shot 20 gauge Savage model 220. It was not ideal for the job, but that was mostly due to being very tightly choked. But I'd rather see a grouse shot on the ground and subsequently eaten, versus seeing such things as sky-busting, or not making every reasonable attempt to recover shot or wounded game. And I'd never be goofy enough to support a politician who came right out and actually promised to infringe upon our gun rights, as has become common for many Democrats. Ethics and making good choices are often related to intelligence, or the lack thereof.

Hunting Blues with a good flusher is a completely different game, the birds sure do not hang around and they can provide some darn sporting shooting.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on what caliber of person makes a "real" hunter. I have often walked similar 5+ miles and while I had seen several grouse on said walk, I never pulled the trigger, and still felt good about it. And at least for me, if I find that my sweat equity isn't yielding enough back on my investment, perhaps a part time job would alleviate the burden and provide some funds for dinner too. At least more than a Pa'tridge's worth.

Also, why not suggest to said hunter, why not just drive? If they need meat in their freezer that badly, why not take advantage of all the advantages road hunting has to offer?

For the record, I don't need to eat what I hunt. I eat it because it is tasty, and the right thing to do if I killed it for sport. I hunt for the sport of it and respect my prey., If you can tease it out from above, I have little respect for the meat hunter's position. We haven't lived in a hunter gatherer society in quite some time now.

If you must ground swat a grouse or shoot a grouse sitting in a tree you should:

A. Be starving.

B. Shoot them in the head w/a Colt Woodsman or S&W Kit Gun.

Otherwise it is simply not sporting or necessary.

I hunt for my own reasons, but success is measured by actually killing something to eat. "Necessary or sporting" is determined by me and me alone thank you. I take the shots that are offered and have ground-sluiced so-many grouse by this point that it's beyond counting now and yes, they are very tasty.

^ Yup!!!!!^^^

Beg to differ.

I knew a guy who lived in an assisted living facility in Pine County, MN. His place was close to some good grouse hunting spots. He didn’t really need too much assistance, and lived on the side where they just checked on you in the morning. He was in his 90s, had fought in Europe in the second big war, and was on his way to the Far East when he got the word the war had ended. He had fought like hell to keep his pickup and his .410 single shot, at the home. I would see him walking the Munger Trail on warm afternoons, where he would sneak along, and take a Grouse or two that he came upon. The trail is a mile in and a mile out at that spot, and the grouse he took would either be on the ground, or in a tree. He told me he hadn’t shot one on the wing since Nixon was in office.

That guy can shoot them any way he finds them. I still try to take them on the wing.

But, when I grow up, I want to be just like him.

Best,
Ted

Blanket statements like this will get your chops busted every time .......... like Ted just did.

I've observed over the years that the taste is much the same, shot sitting, walking or flying. The memory is sweeter having the grouse shot flying, I'll admit. A high point for a young hunter, or old. No ground shots with the dog out though! I much agree with Ted. A long standing tradition to simply hunt grouse, by legal means, in MN. God's chickens.
Chief

Chops busted? I think not!

I grew up mentored by hunters other than my father who was deceased. Gun safety & hunting ethics were stressed & rigidly enforced. You did not shoot birds on the ground period! How you took game was considered more important than coming home with a full game bag. I lived in fear that I would commit a transgression that would result in my not being invited to hunt w/my mentors in the future.

When I went away to college & (in a state where a loaded gun in the vehicle & road hunting was legal) I discovered that the hunting ethics I grew up with were not universal. Ground swatting birds was considered normal & sensible if possible & a full limit or more if you could get away with it was considered the measurement of a successful hunt.

As much as I hate to admit it I participated in some of this due to peer pressure but I always felt guilty about it. It was harvesting, not hunting & not enjoyable to me.

If you are a subsistence hunter I guess anything goes but I don't think many posters here qualify as subsistence hunters & other than stopping a wounded bird that is running (assuming no dogs or people are in danger) I can't see any justification for ground swatting a game bird.


My mentors were correct in that the quality of the hunt was much more important than the weight of the game bag after the hunt & I wish that I had always remembered that.

When I was in college, I got laid-off from my job with the State Highway Department. I applied for unemployment compensation until I found a new job, but was denied because I was a full-time student. I subsequently won on appeal, because the law stated that because I was working full-time while attending school full-time, I had demonstrated a willingness to do both.

But prior to having my appeal hearing, and winning that appeal, I had just paid my September rent and security deposit, and Fall Term tuition and books, etc., and I was about as near broke as I have ever been in my life. After several weeks of eating nothing but dirt cheap food like macaroni and cheese or Hamburger Helper without the hamburger, I decided to go dove hunting to get some meat. As I was walking through a cornfield toward the tree line to set up for doves, I kicked out two ringneck pheasants. They flushed straight away, and being hungry for meat protein, I shot both of them almost without thinking... and pheasants were not in season.

That was the very first double I ever got on pheasants, and it was also the first and only time I ever poached. I stashed the birds in the weeds near the road, and picked them up when I left for the evening. It wasn't ethical, and it sure as hell wasn't legal. But those were absolutely the best tasting pheasants I ever ate.

It appears that the post I made in reply to nca225 a couple days ago was deemed inappropriate. That's a shame. I didn't think it was any more inappropriate or offensive than inferring that KenA is a "road hunting/ground sluicing slob." With only 21 posts here, KenA could become offended, and simply decide to leave. I hope he considers the source... one that should have been censored or "moderated" into oblivion years ago.

So would you ground swat a turkey?
How about shoot at a running deer?
How about shoot at a sitting squirrel?

just curious...

No problem with the above, BM. I much agree. But ......... you gave only two qualifications for shooting a grouse on the ground or off a limb, and then stated that otherwise it would not be necessary. That is cut and dried, but Ted told of a perfectly good reason. That negates your blanket statement. Your strict ethics would deny an old man, unable to swing a gun on a flushing bird, the right to harvest one more grouse for his table. Chops ........... busted.

Stan. your reply brings to mind one of the many great stories written by the late Gene Hill--"Old Tom".. RWTF

Assuming all game laws are obeyed, the game is respected and safety is set as the highest priority... the rest of hunting involves a lot of personal choices. Blanket statements to suggest one's own opinion is the only correct ethical standard should be avoided outside the circle of pre-screened supporters. Lest someone pick at the statement and start questioning things like shooting .22's into trees on public hunting grounds. Because then you're into qualifying and explaining statements that were supposed to end as a mic drop. lol

This is getting silly. I guess we all have are different standards & it is easy to justify some of the things we feel like doing at the time.

Where does it stop? Is ground swatting a covey of quail sitting huddled in the snow OK just because we have been hunting hard, have an empty game bag & a taste for quail & gravy? How about shooting ducks sitting on pond, yellow bottom ponds, bated dove fields & spottlighting deer. It's a slippery slope & all easy to justify in the effort to fill a limit or game bag.

Re. Ted's old man story, while I'm sympathetic & I'm aware of North country Grouse harvesting culture (that is why Savage made those .410 barrels for the takedown 99's I think) I sure as hell hope that the last grouse (or other game bird) I shoot is not ground swatted! What a legacy to leave!

& to the Barron: If you have concerns about shooting a grouse off a limb w/ a .22 hand gun I assume the .22 prohibition would mean squirrels must be shot with a shotgun. In my hunting culture only young children shoot squirrels w /a shotgun. Men shoot squirrels w/.22 rifles & I know a few who use .22 handguns. If the background is unsafe they don't shoot.

I prefer an early mornin’ cruise with a double deuce of Natty light to start my day. The “Judge” waiting’ to pass sentence on feathered jaywalkers. LOL.

I'll bite.

Turkey: Yes. When I hunted them, it was illegal to take a Turkey on the wing. By law you had to shoot them on the ground. But you don't walk up (or drive) on them like Grouse. You have to call them in. That takes a level of skill and cunning.

Running deer: No.

Sitting Squirell: Yes, with a .22 rifle w/ peeps:, through the head. Spend time getting to know your .22 beforehand for accuracy and precision. Accurate and precise shooting takes time and skill.

In a perfect world, every game bird would be harvested over a pointing dog. But, but as a practical matter... that can't happen. What lies in-between may be imperfect but it is reality, and that is either as good or as bad as you wish to make it. As long as the game laws are observed and safety is paramount then what each individual hunter choses is entirely up to him (or her). The judgments or pronouncements of others be damned. I have always maintained that hunting is the last great "illusion of freedom" because for a few short and precious moments, you cast-off the mantle of civilization and become immersed in the food chain as a predator. Everything else falls away and it's you, hopefully... a fine weapon, and the day ahead of you. Be it a rifle or a shotgun, it has effectively been my salvation now for the entirety of my life and I await every Fall with an eagerness that few other pursuits can generate. Each season is either "good" or "bad" depending on how you perceive it, but I pray that I am able to do this for the remainder of my time here, much like the old man in Ted's story.

Ground swatting sounds like something one would do with a single shot .410. A true gentleman using a proper sxs should use the phrase "high percentage shot."

In Sweden, Finland and Russia they shoot Capercaille and Black Grouse out of the tops of trees with both shotguns and rifles. I guess that's their hunting culture. Who is to judge? Also, a while back, I was watching the MeatEater series with Steven Rinella, he was hunting Blue Grouse up in Alaska, shooting them out of the tops of trees with a .22 rifle. That was pretty interesting, a lot of sweat equity climbing through a steep rain forest to shoot a couple grouse. You certainly couldn't use a dog for flushing when the birds are sitting 200 feet up a tree.

"Ground SWatting?- humm- Some years ago now, our first neighbors , Joe and Sandy- Joe was my age, a brother Vet-and from Baraga in our Upper Penninsulae-- we became casual hunting partners. So I picked him up early Sunday morning, with Molly my Setter and a 20 gauge LeFever DS in the gun case. He came out with a gun case and a thermos, saw Molly in the back of the old Jeepster that was my hunting/fishing buggy then-- said:" Hey, never hunted pats with a dog before, should be a new experience, for sure." So I asked him, figuring that Baraga in the UP probably was a good area for grouse (ruffed and sharptails)-- "How do you hunt them, then?"-- "Oh, we take turns with a Jeep on the back 2-tracks, one guy drives slow, the other guy with the gun rides on the right hand side front fender-- when we see a bird dustin" we pop them in the head, stop the jeep, and pick up dinner"!! That was the "UP Culture" he grew up with.

"A true gent using a side by side-- sounds like the lates: Paul A. Curtis, Aldo Leopold, Havilah Babcock, Nash Buckingham, Archibald Rutledge, Hal Bowen Howard, Ray P. Holland, George Bird Evans, all gone, but I'll bet a flat of RST 20 ga. No. 8 shotloads that NONE of them made ground swatting a part of their hunting Modus operandus-- "The Field is the Touchstone of The Man"-- RWTF