Hello, I have a 1913 12 gauge Fox Sterlingworth and decide to use it for pheasant this past season. I loaded a low pressure load for it that pushes a 1 ounce load to 1125fps by the data. I used #6 shot. I had a couple of hit birds run and, wanting to keep using the same load, I'm wondering if I go to 5s or even 4s that will improve things, or do I just need more velocity? Each bird was hit using modified choke normal ranges, stocked birds. My previous hunting was with a 20ga 1 oz #6 load at 1220 fps which was fine. Thanks for any helpful advice.

If you are shooting stocked birds at normal distances and they are running off, it’s not the pellets.

An ounce of sixes is plenty of pellets for density, and plenty of energy for penetration.

You can pump the pellets up to 1200 if you like, and see if there’s a difference.

I would probably investigate via necropsy, skin a bird, and see where I hit it.

If the holes in the bird make no sense, you might pattern that load/shotgun combination. It might not be hitting where you’re looking.

I tried 1 1/8 oz. #4 when I hunted pheasant with a 16 gauge and didn't think it had enough pellets in the pattern. Birds were flying away, missed or wounded. #6 killed but left pellets in the breast. In my limited experience, #5 penetrates well and is more effective on pheasant than #4 or #6.

These were wild Nebraska cornfield birds, not stocked.

Thank you ClapperZapper and Carl46. My desire to hunt this old gun got me to the load, but the two birds I shot with it hinted that it was not enough, so I went back to the twenty gauge. I will heed the advice each of you gave me, do some poi, patterning, and pattern #5s too. Unfortunately, neither bird was recovered.

I’m not really a good enough shot to use number four’s

Undoubtedly, if I am carrying some, the birds are all close and they are pulped.

If I am blocking, I might load a four into the tight barrel.

An ounce of sixes at 1200 will kill about anything, dead as a hammer, out to 40 yards.

I’m thinking your pattern is skeetily open, or not much is on the bird.

Time to test.

It is possible and even likely that you're slow velocities may have resulted in simply shooting too far back. If you hit them in the rear end, they're going to be a challenge to bring to bag, regardless of the load that you are using. That's said I always recommend and use Number 5

I would wager that 95% of the birds that are lost are shot too far back and wounded in the rear.Is that long tail drives your eyeAnd results in a rear end shot.

I like #5s, they work well and break bones
This is for 12 gauge stuff

Mike

I killed hundreds of ducks with one ounce of 5’s in my 28 as a youth. Even killed a few geese with 5’s but my father did not appreciate my doing it and I lost a whole week of hunting as punishment. I’d either go to 5’s or stick with 6’s and bump the speed up to 1200 or better yet go to 5’s at 1200. Those old Winchester 28/1 ounce were about 1150 not todays 1300 fps hot rod shells.

I have difficulty believing that 6's don't have enough punch on stocked birds. Years ago, I had a writing assignment that sent me to a preserve in KS that had good released birds. (Ringneck Ranch.) I had a chance to shoot a lot of them. At that time, I had a Parker Repro 28ga choked IC/M. I loaded up a bunch of 3/4 oz 7's--essentially the same pellet count as an ounce of 6's. After missing the very first bird I shot at, I bagged the next 27. A couple did require the 2nd barrel, and good dog work saved a couple that came down with 2 good legs. But I also scored 2 true doubles.

I'm not inclined to recommend that load on wild ringnecks unless you're very picky with your shots. But I was surprised at how well it worked on released birds.

Going through my memory of the events of that day, I retraced my steps from where I shot at the second bird to where I determined it was hit and it was just about 30 yards. I was trying to get the dog on the trail. The bird flushed out in front of me because the cover was running out and flew back past me at that range. We trialed that bird for about 300 yards before running into another hunter with a lab and a shorthair who said he'd find it. He didn't. The first bird was closer and flushed in an identical way but was hit closer. I think I'm going to have to POI the gun based on CZ's reply because I may be shooting too high and thus leaving the legs? It is either that or the 1125fps? The load pressure is 6700psi by the data. I like about a 60/40 pattern because over the years I've shot more trap than anything else and I like to see the bird but I can't say I'm in good practice. Thank you to all for your helpful information!

I would be very reluctant to base any indictment of #6 shot on the wounding of just two birds. Two birds do not constitute a valid statistical sampling in any kind of reasonable comparison. I'm inclined to be thinking the Fox isn't shooting to the same POA that the previous 20 ga. did. A patterning session will tell the tale. I'm a hard sell that the problem is the 75 fps difference.

Years ago now, with my Lab "Dixie" and the 12 gauge M21 I inherited- 28" bls. choked imp. cyl. & mod- SST, EJ- I used Federal Premium Coppered No. 7&1/2 in imp. cyl barrel, and same load in No. 6 -- 1&1/4 oz. Express- the copper coated lead shot was the secret, IMO- to a real minimum of crippled wing broken birds which were grassed and brought to me by Dixie-- I'd much rather have to pick out pellets from the breasts of the birds on the platter that loose them, as crippled pheasants even with broken legs can run like Jesse Owens. average range est'd was about 25 yards with the first barrel, and for the second barrel if needed for a "finisher" 33 yards- Note- I have never "doubled" on pheasants in 70 years of hunting them with dogs, either flushing or pointing. RWTF

The problem these days with "copper plated" shot is that the copper is mostly just washed on. It can make the pellets easier to find when you're cleaning the birds. Other than that, the "plating" doesn't add much.

If your hit on a pheasant isn't fatal, then you'd better hope that the bird has a broken wing and a broken leg.

It needs to be remembered that an increase in muzzle velocity does not translate into an equivalent increase in velocity (and energy) downrange. The natural laws of physics dictate that the faster a projectile leaves the muzzle the faster it sheds velocity. IOW, increasing the velocity of your load by 75 fps will not yield a 75 fps increase at 30 yards. The increase will be considerably less than that. I can't put my hands on the ballistics chart that has the appropriate data, but it exists, and is eye opening to many who never learned this before.

I have a hunting/shooting buddy that has been a "master" with a shotgun for much of his life. He has patterned thousands of loads in his development of his proprietary choke tubes. He loves to say that "The shot can leave the muzzle at 1150 fps or at 1300 fps and at 40 yards both loads are going the same speed." He's not quite right about that, but the loads are a lot closer in velocity at distance than most think, and get closer and closer as the distance increases. The reason modern day steel shot loads kill as well as they do, driven at phenomenal muzzle velocities, is that the shot is not misshapen by setback or bore scrubbing, even at hot rod muzzle velocities. That translates into denser patterns, which in turn translates into more shot on the bird (more terminal energy).

Do you have any evidence that this is the case with BOSS copper plated bismuth? They make their own shot and I have seen no information about whether it is truly plated, or washed.

There is true nickel plated lead shot available, and I load it in a specialty 3", 3/4 oz. dove load for my .410s. It kills like blue lightning, as compared to unplated equivalent lead shot. I can really tell a difference in mortality vs cripples.

When I was shooting birds for hunt tests my goto load was Rem Handicap 7 1/2's and for the Master dogs we would intentionally let them fly quite a ways to get good retrieves, "No Bird" was expesive for the club and tough on the dog.

My goto load for wild pheasants is B&P 2 1/2" High Pheasant 1oz 6's, works just fine.

MT wild birds



My goto for waterfowl is 7/8oz of ITX 6's in my 12ga

An ounce of sixes properly placed will kill wild birds all day long. Lower velocity at the muzzle will usually keep patterns from being blown. It could be your patterns are tighter than you think and you didn't get as good a hit as you thought. If you pattern the gun and it is thin use 1 1/8 of sixes. If you go to #5's I'd go to 1 1/8 load around 1100 fps. Pheasants are a big target with a lot of area that doesn't produce a clean kill. They also have lots of feathers that can produce a big poof that doesn't do much.

Have a budy who prides himself in not driving pellets up the rear end of pheasants. Remarkable how many he kills with head and neck shots. So 'knowing where your pattern is" is his key to success. He prefers 6's over smaller shot. Conversely, he still uses BBB's and even T's on cranes, swans, and giant Canadas, while I maintain that going for head and neck shots with 1's results in fewer lost birds.

I am curious what variety of pterodactyl the OP’s shooting preserve is breeding.

Most preserve birds are fat, poorly conditioned, fly slow, and are thinly feathered.

They don’t require massive payloads at hyper speed.

Look for a different reason for the cripples.

Clapper, they are stocked by the Game Commission on public land, and by the time I get around to hunting them, it is usually after the New Year. The birds remaining have been out there a while as the GC's last stocking is at Thanksgiving. I doubt that makes them any easier or harder to kill? I don't shoot many, probably around 10 each season. I am not an expert at killing pheasants. My other guns will handle much stouter loads but I wanted the use the Fox with the hand load I thought appropriate for it. As I said previously I accept your advice and will pattern the gun and load. My season is over so I have some time before next year. Thank you, again.

I live right down the road from a state game area that has released birds.

They are very meaty.

Two suggestions come to mind after you pattern your shotgun.

One is consider the range that you are seeing the birds. that they could be further out than you think. The other thing would be you might be jumping too far ahead of the bird on the flush and barely catching them with the fringe.

Both are easy to do, especially if you don’t shoot a lot of them.

Shooting pheasants in the front half takes a bit of practice, and a little bit of slowing down.

You really can, insert the shotgun behind the flushing bird, and then stroke through the front of the animal and fire.
To great effect.

I had a chance to do a POI pattern for the Fox, I asked the forum about so I wanted to post it. I think it shows some castoff might benefit me, and that the patterns are high. I also did a pattern test for the load I was using, and it reflects what is shown here and that 1 ounce of 6s at 30 yards fills the 30" pattern. I used white sheeting, so until I can black marker the pellet holes, pictures won't show much. Thanks again for the helpful opinions and advice.

I think you have answered your question.

“Under their chin” will work for any pheasant you will ever point that shotgun at.