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Posted By: ed good Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/05/22 03:50 PM
about 10 years ago, Tony Treadwell published his fine book about English shotgun restoration and other topics...

There were two versions published. First an eBook and then the print version...

Have not been able to find link to eBook version. Can anyone help? perhaps with a down load copy?
Posted By: ed good Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/05/22 05:46 PM
just heard from Oxford eBooks in england...they were the publisher of tony's eBook...They still have the file, but cannot release it without permission of the family...perhaps if some of you here would contact Oxford with a request for the eBook, that would generate enough activity to induce the family and Oxford to publish it again?

link is:

andy severn
oxford-ebooks.com

it would be a wonderful thing if we could generate enough interest in tony's fine book to cause a republication in both e and print form...
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/05/22 08:21 PM
Why didn't you buy a hard copy when you could?
Posted By: craigd Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/06/22 12:42 AM
I fell into that situation where I didn't give it much mind, and at some point I tried to pull up the ebook and poof it was gone. Oh well, should'a saved it when I had the chance.
Posted By: ed good Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/06/22 12:58 AM
if we all email andy severn, maybe he can get permission to activate the eBook file...
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/06/22 01:14 AM
That's ol' ed. Wanting someone else to do his work for him. What else you need, ed? Someone to pay for your online edition?

Again, why didn't you buy a hardback copy when it was available?
Posted By: old colonel Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/06/22 02:33 AM
Hardback can be found on Abebooks.com

https://www.abebooks.com/products/isbn/9781908387585/31210526726&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-PLP1
Posted By: ed good Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/06/22 03:17 AM
stan, pls read your pm's...
Posted By: ed good Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/06/22 03:25 AM
old, you are missing the point of this thread...print copies are available from multiple sources...

however, the purpose of this thread is to generate activity at oxford ebooks, the publisher of the eBook version of tony's book, in order to encourage the publisher to ask permission from tony's heirs to authorize the activation of the eBook file, so we all can access it...

will you join this effort and email oxford your desire to view the ebook?
Posted By: old colonel Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/06/22 03:52 AM
I have the hard copy, not likely I would use it as an ebook as I rarely use my iPad for that purpose
Posted By: ed good Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/06/22 05:57 AM
old, as i recall, there is lots of info about tony and his work in the ebook, that is not in the print book...

for example, there is the video of tony and his helper dumping a red hot crucible into a drum of water...the chemical reaction that occured is spectacular...
Posted By: mc Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/06/22 11:07 AM
Not a chemical reaction edd
Posted By: eeb Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/06/22 12:31 PM
I had forgotten about this book; thanks for posting the Abe Book link. I ordered this book from Tony’s estate when it came out but never got it. Interesting it’s still floating around out there. Tony was a great guy and a welcome poster to this board. It was quite sad to watch the progression of his cancer, but he worked as long as he could and never lost heart.
Posted By: KY Jon Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/06/22 04:25 PM
Tony lived until his last day, doing what he could and never stopped learning and sharing. I miss him. He passed the same day my older brother passed. The board was better for his sharing. His web was alive for some time after his passing but has gone. I have just about worn out his book but recently found a second copy.

The list of poster we have lost would be a who's who if we had one. They shared a lot of what they knew but took a lot with them.
Posted By: keith Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/06/22 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by mc
Not a chemical reaction edd

Really??? Maybe you should rethink that statement...

chem·i·cal re·ac·tion
/ˈkeməkəl rēˈakSHən/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: chemical reaction; plural noun: chemical reactions

a process that involves rearrangement of the molecular or ionic structure of a substance, as opposed to a change in physical form or a nuclear reaction.


With charcoal pack color case hardening, we are attempting to infuse carbon, carbon monoxide, and other chemicals into the surface of another chemical compound we all know as mild steel. Mild steel is a complex alloy of elemental iron, carbon, and various other metals. We may first anneal the steel of our action and parts to change the molecular structure imparted during initial forging or prior case hardening. We polish this steel to prepare it for the carbon based pack, which is primarily composed of wood and bone charcoal. We clean the steel to remove oils and other chemical contaminants. It is all packed into a sealed crucible to keep oxygen (another very reactive element) out during the heating to critical temperature. It is held at that high temperature for hours to permit various carbon compounds to penetrate into the surface of the steel.

At the proper time and temperature, the crucible is dumped into aerated H2O, a chemical also known as water. This chemical solvent may have some potassium nitrate added, or maybe not. Most practitioners want this quench solvent known as water to be rather cold. The contents of the crucible are typically dumped into the quench as close to the surface as humanly possible, to prevent oxygen from coming in contact with the red hot steel. This little controlled chemical step is done because excess oxygen during that brief instant will cause our desired colors to become dull gray and muted. Of course, dumping the red hot contents into the cold water quench causes a violent reaction where the liquid water is instantly turned to steam. The goal is to keep the carbon based pack in contact with the surface of the steel until the moment it hits the cold water quench. The water is often aerated and/or agitated to attempt to keep the water in contact with the extremely hot steel parts. And the molecular structure of the surface of our carbon infused steel is thusly frozen into a molecular arrangement that causes the pleasing refraction of light that our eyes perceive as Case Hardening Colors. Not seen is the dramatically increased surface hardness...

It isn't magic. It is all due to this multi-step chemical reaction that took a lot of experimentation to develop.

And it is quite complex. If it was as easy as heating parts and dumping them into a drum of water, people wouldn't pay lots of money to those who worked long hours to learn and perfect this chemical process.

So there you have it Ed. And your internet stalker mc, in yet another pathetic attempt to discredit you, instead showed us his own ignorance of the subject. Maybe he should stick to things he knows well, like misspelling words, and omitting punctuation in run on sentences that often make no sense at all...

It all makes me wonder where the DoubleGunShop Forum Manners, Civility, and Politeness Police are when you need them???
Posted By: Dennis Potter Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/08/22 12:08 AM
Ah, Yes, Tony Treadwell's book. When that was a hot item, I too ordered and paid for a copy. Never received it, and my several attempts to either get my copy, or my money back with the family was to no avail. The whole thing seemed a scam. Never got the book or my money.
Dennis
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/08/22 01:33 AM
Originally Posted by keith
Originally Posted by mc
Not a chemical reaction edd

Really??? Maybe you should rethink that statement...

chem·i·cal re·ac·tion
/ˈkeməkəl rēˈakSHən/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: chemical reaction; plural noun: chemical reactions

a process that involves rearrangement of the molecular or ionic structure of a substance, as opposed to a change in physical form or a nuclear reaction.


With charcoal pack color case hardening, we are attempting to impart carbon, carbon monoxide, and other chemicals into the surface of another chemical compound we all know as mild steel. Mild steel is a complex alloy of elemental iron, carbon, and various other metals. We may first anneal the steel of our action and parts to change the molecular structure imparted during initial forging or prior case hardening. We polish this steel to prepare it for the carbon based pack, which is primarily composed of wood and bone charcoal. We clean the steel to remove oils and other chemical contaminants. It is all packed into a sealed crucible to keep oxygen (another very reactive element) out during the heating to critical temperature. It is held at that high temperature for hours to permit various carbon compounds to penetrate into the surface of the steel.

At the proper time and temperature, the crucible is dumped into aerated H2O, a chemical also known as water. This chemical solvent may have some potassium nitrate added, or maybe not. Most practitioners want this quench solvent known as water to be rather cold. The contents of the crucible are typically dumped into the quench as close to the surface as humanly possible, to prevent oxygen from coming in contact with the red hot steel. This little controlled chemical step is done because excess oxygen during that brief instant will cause our desired colors to become dull gray and muted. Of course, dumping the red hot contents into the cold water quench causes a violent reaction where the liquid water is instantly turned to steam. The goal is to keep the carbon based pack in contact with the surface of the steel until the moment it hits the cold water quench. The water is often aerated and/or agitated to attempt to keep the water in contact with the extremely hot steel parts. And the molecular structure of the surface of our carbon infused steel is thusly frozen into a molecular arrangement that causes the pleasing refraction of light that our eyes perceive as Case Hardening Colors. Not seen is the dramatically increased surface hardness...

It isn't magic. It is all due to this multi-step chemical reaction that took a lot of experimentation to develop.

And it is quite complex. If it was as easy as heating parts and dumping them into a drum of water, people wouldn't pay lots of money to those who worked long hours to learn and perfect this chemical process.

So there you have it Ed. And your internet stalker mc, in yet another pathetic attempt to discredit you, instead showed us his own ignorance of the subject. Maybe he should stick to things he knows well, like misspelling words, and omitting punctuation in run on sentences that often make no sense at all...

It all makes me wonder where the DoubleGunShop Forum Manners, Civility, and Politeness Police are when you need them???

Wonder if SanfOrd will like this…

…and give us a grandpappy story.


______________________________
Éire
Posted By: ed good Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/08/22 02:38 AM
dennis, print version of tony's book was published by lulu...

here is link...last i looked, they had about 30 copies...

https://www.lulu.com/shop/tony-trea...tony+treadwell&page=1&pageSize=4

amazon also lists a few for sale...
Posted By: ed good Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/08/22 02:42 AM
shore would be nice if you fellers would email oxford ebooks, requesting reactivation of the ebook version of tony's extraordinary work...so we could all have the opportunity to see it again...
Posted By: ed good Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/08/22 03:01 AM
and keith, yours above, is perhaps the finest description of the quench process that i have ever read, save for what tony wrote in his chapter on rehardening...

tony also described his tempering process, which is absolutely essential to drawing some of the brittleness out of the metal, so that it is not glass hard and subject to cracking...
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/08/22 10:14 AM
While Tonys book, which was given to me by a forum friend here, is interesting I find it's highest purpose to be mostly an incentive to try gunsmithing tasks I've yet to attempt. Tony was not afraid of making a mistake to learn a new process. IMO Tony did not intend the book to be a step by step guide to doing specific gunsmithing tasks, but rather a chronicle of how he learned to do these things and who he consulted and learned from. It excels at that.

Ed, you should find and read Oscar Gaddy's in depth articles on CCH. It is the finest account of the process I have ever found and, until something is written that equals or exceeds it in usefulness, I will consider it the standard.

Thanks Keith, for the excellent reminder on why it is indeed a chemical process.
Posted By: mc Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/08/22 02:30 PM
The great big ball of water being displaced is because of heat in spite of everthing you said keet take away the heat and there is no reaction.not a chemical reaction thermal influenced reaction
Posted By: canvasback Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/08/22 02:33 PM
oops
Posted By: mc Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/08/22 02:36 PM
Ok keet another example, hypothetically I tossed a steel part in a bag with charcoal into water ,,nothing happened but a small splash no heat no reaction even though all the chemicals are present
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/08/22 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by canvasback
oops

Everyone is here but Toad.

Prolly at work. Lol.


___________________________
I’m going to knock every one of you out. Tom Sestito
Posted By: keith Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/08/22 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by mc
Ok keet another example, hypothetically I tossed a steel part in a bag with charcoal into water ,,nothing happened but a small splash no heat no reaction even though all the chemicals are present


Bingo mc.

Like a blind hog who cannot write or spell, you have stumbled upon the secret ingredient necessary for every chemical reaction in the universe. Heat energy is the magic ingredient. Heat precipitates and accelerates chemical reactions. Without heat, bone charcoal color case hardening would not be possible. Rust bluing would not be possible; neither the rusting, or the conversion of that ferric oxide hydrate (red rust) into ferro-ferric oxide (black oxide) by boiling in water. There's that boiling hot water again... crucial to our chemical reaction... just like it is in bone charcoal case hardening. The rust bluing boiling tank is a relatively slow and even process, which is what we want to get a nice even finish. The violent flash boiling that happens in the case hardening quench tank is extremely rapid and uneven... which is why the colors we seek are also random and uneven. Yep, it's a critical part of the complex chemical reaction that bone charcoal color case hardening depends upon.

Who knew that gunmakers and gunsmiths are so dependent upon chemistry and chemical reactions? Well, I knew that. Ed knew it too. Sorry you don't.

Nothing the Pharmaceutical industry produces would be possible without heat energy. Oil Refineries could place crude oil or petroleum products in a catalytic cracker without heat, and there will be no chemical reaction to break down those long and complex molecular bonds to produce gasoline, kerosene, diesel fuel, asphalt, waxes, and dozens of other byproducts. Mix iron ore, limestone, coke and other metals together in a cold furnace and you will never see the spectacular and violent reaction that turns those chemicals into cast iron, or into the carbon steel we use for shotgun frames and gun barrels. Steel making is nothing but a huge, dirty, and dangerous chemical reaction. Heat energy is responsible for the photons that create light, which are necessary for the chemical reaction known as photosynthesis in green plants. Take away all heat by bringing any combination of chemicals to zero degrees Kelvin (absolute zero), and all chemical reactions stop. Totally. All molecular activity stops in the complete absence of heat energy....

.... kind of like the brain activity you use to try to bring Ed down to your level. Now stop being foolish. And mind your manners. Gladys Kravitz is watching you.
Posted By: mc Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/09/22 10:23 AM
You are still an idiot the you missed the point. failed miserably ,hot steel into cold water makes steam this is what edd saw in tonys video. Like an idiot anti gunner liberal Democrat you rail blindly looking for validation.small man that you are you resort to name calling you are the turd in this bb punch bowl .
Posted By: ed good Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/09/22 03:32 PM
Chemical reactions happen at a characteristic reaction rate at a given temperature and chemical concentration. Typically, reaction rates increase with increasing temperature because there is more thermal energy available to reach the activation energy necessary for breaking bonds between atoms...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_reaction
Posted By: ed good Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/09/22 03:41 PM
At the proper time and temperature, the crucible is dumped into aerated H2O, a chemical also known as water. This chemical solvent may have some potassium nitrate added, or maybe not. Most practitioners want this quench solvent known as water to be rather cold. The contents of the crucible are typically dumped into the quench as close to the surface as humanly possible, to prevent oxygen from coming in contact with the red hot steel. This little controlled chemical step is done because excess oxygen during that brief instant will cause our desired colors to become dull gray and muted. Of course, dumping the red hot contents into the cold water quench causes a violent reaction where the liquid water is instantly turned to steam. The goal is to keep the carbon based pack in contact with the surface of the steel until the moment it hits the cold water quench. The water is often aerated and/or agitated to attempt to keep the water in contact with the extremely hot steel parts. And the molecular structure of the surface of our carbon infused steel is thusly frozen into a molecular arrangement that causes the pleasing refraction of light that our eyes perceive as Case Hardening Colors. Not seen is the dramatically increased surface hardness...

from keith's post above...shore sounds like a chemical reaction to me...
Posted By: ed good Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/09/22 03:45 PM
anyway, back to the topic of this thread on this once fine forum...

dont forget to send that email to oxford ebooks, requesting reactivation of tony's ebook, so we can all see what i saw...those ten years ago...
Posted By: mc Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/09/22 05:09 PM
This is a physical reaction not a chemical reaction
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/09/22 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by mc
This is a physical reaction not a chemical reaction

I learned at the University of Hockey that for every physical action, e.g. a flush right cross to the jaw,
there is an equal and opposite physical reaction, viz, a knockout.


______________________________
You can pick the hand I beat the f.ck out you with. Shawn Thornton
Posted By: ed good Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/09/22 05:55 PM
roads, it is obviously a physical reaction and not a chemical reaction...

so, mc is right once again and we who differ with him are wrong once again...

now can we git back to the purpose of this thread...

pls send an email to:

andy severn
oxford-ebooks.com

requesting reactivation of tony treadwell's ebook...
Posted By: keith Re: Tony Treadwell's eBook - 08/10/22 10:27 AM
Originally Posted by mc
You are still an idiot the you missed the point. failed miserably ,hot steel into cold water makes steam this is what edd saw in tonys video. Like an idiot anti gunner liberal Democrat you rail blindly looking for validation.small man that you are you resort to name calling you are the turd in this bb punch bowl .

If you simply dropped a piece of insoluble steel in a drum of cold water, there would be no immediate change in the molecular structure or composition. If you simply quenched a red hot piece of mild steel, there would be no significant chemical change in the water or the steel either.

On the other hand, if you dump a red hot crucible containing steel parts that have been cooked for hours in a mixture of carbon rich bone and wood charcoal at over 1400 degrees F, then BOTH the steel parts AND the quench water are changed chemically. If you don't think the water has changed mc, you should try drinking it or washing your eyes in it. You could fill your aquarium and watch your tropical fish die in it. You could even pay a water testing lab to tell you that the contents of your quench tank now have a higher, more alkaline pH, and it is no longer pure water. And I would be willing to wager a substantial amount that is precisely what a good testing laboratory would tell us.

I don't expect you to understand or accept these facts mc, because you are also blind and ignorant to the fact that you accused me of name calling in your reply to me, while simultaneously calling me ugly things like an idiot and a turd in the punch bowl. What was really nasty and ugly was comparing me to a liberal Democrat. All the other things are just sticks-and-stones, but comparing me to a Democrat is the rudest insult imaginable. I thought we were friends...

So hopefully we all learned a little here mc.

We learned a little about the chemical reactions that occur during the charcoal color case hardening process, and the chemical compounds involved... We also learned something about the chemical and molecular changes that happen to those compounds. The steel changes both physically and chemically. And the charcoal and quench water are changed as well.

We learned that Ed knows more about the case hardening process than you. We also learned that when Ed wants to, he can spell, write, and use punctuation better than you could on your best day.

We also learned that things like Manners and Civility aren't really all that important to the folks who whine and cry to Dave about such things. If that were important, they would be crying to Dave about you, since you have been engaging in name calling, rude and nasty insults, and following Ed around and disrupting his Threads for many months.

We learned that they are not calling for you to be banned or Moderated, and they are not crying and wringing their hands because you post your insults and vitriol while using only the initials mc, instead of your full name. We haven't seen even one complaint from Preacher or Gladys Kravitz or their pals. So once again, we learned that you can learn a lot about guns on this BBS. But if you pay attention, you can learn a lot about people too.
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