A friend shot a dove yesterday with right barrel on his extractor 12 ga. He removed the empty and replaced it with a loaded round but could not close the gun as firing pin stuck out. After removing the barrels, he snapped the left trigger, so both pins now stick out. He tapped lightly on the pins, but they would not move back from the breech face. He did not try and cock the locks by turning the cocking rods for fear of damaging them. What could cause this problem and what should he do now?

Hal

Can you post this on the LC Collectors site. There are some very good Smith experts over there.

There are images showing how to recock the hammers with the gun disassembled in the LCSCA FAQs
Look under "How can I cock the hammers when my Smith gun has been disassembled?" in the Disassembly and Reassembly section
https://lcsca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=274&club_id=43784

It is very likely the internals of the action needs a good cleaning, which, done right, requires removal of the stock.
If your friend has not previously reassembled a Smith, it's best to let a gunsmith do so (and while he's at it check the head of the stock for cracks).
There are however images of several reassembly techniques on the FAQ.

Thanks! Will forward message above.

?? Is his Smith an earlier series with the bushed firing pins? RWTF

Yes. He was thinking about making a spanner out of a screwdriver, then maybe a small shot of carb cleaner.

It is hard to get the bushings out without damaging them because they are soft. Plus, they come in at an angle and the face is cut in situ so it is difficult to get them back in just the way they came out. Jerry Andrews and Buck Hamlin are the two best LC Smith guys I have found. Either one can help you out.

It sounds as if the hammers are down on both locks if the firing pins will not move back into the breech face. Your friend does not need to ship the gun across the country at this point, or remove the firing pin bushings either.

In all likelihood, he just needs to manually cock the locks. I made an L.C. Smith cocking tool identical to the one pictured in Brophy's book. But as I recall, they can easily be cocked using a 6" Crescent wrench, lacking the spanner.

Then I would take the time to look into why the right lock did not remain cocked when the gun was opened to remove the fired shell. It could be that your friend simply did not open the barrels fully enough for the trigger sear to fully engage the hammer, i.e., the hammer was not rotated back far enough. Since the left barrel had not been fired, that side remained cocked until he pulled the trigger. Or maybe he accidentally was holding back the right trigger, causing the same issue. On the other hand, it's possible the sear engagement is worn or packed with crud, and the hammer did not stay cocked for that reason. He would have to remove the lock to inspect the sears. If the sear engagement is worn or damaged, the gun could be prone to an accidental discharge. At that point, it would be advisable to employ the services of a good gunsmith.

This all presumes your friend has the correct screwdriver, and the ability to remove the lock without doing more damage.

OK good to know. Have the gun here, so he won't be able to mess with it. Can anything be done to clean the firing pins by merely removing stock and sideplates to clean the rest of the internals? Is de-oiling the stock recommended maintenance?

Yes ,remove stock and clean everthing, soaking stock to remove oil can cause wood shrinkage so go slow

If the first lock is still cocked but the firing pin is stuck protruding from the breech face, theres a good chance the pin is broken and the parts are jammed into place.
The bushings crack often as well but can hold together till you start to unscrew them, then they fall apart .

Recock the locks using the cocking arms up front. The cocking arm(s) will not moveable if the lock is fired. The arm will flop up and down freely if the lock on that side is cocked.

A small crescent used to simply lever each arm individually back to cock the lock as Keith says works great.
I usually use a screwdriver blade to leverage each one using the other as a pivot point. Whatever works.

Bushed pins must come out the breach face. Take time to make a close fitting spanner. Keep track of which side each bushing, lock screw an FP goes in.
Later style pins can be removed by just taking the locks off.
The FP on each side just sits in a hole in the frame you can access from the inside of the lock recess,

The wood inletting up tight around that area will sometimes hold the pin from falling free from the frame , others will do just that when the gun is tipped muzzle up.
No set screw or sparate pin holding the FP in place. The installed lock does that

These pins are often mushroomed on the backend from hammer strikes. That can make them jam forward in their channel. They are also prone to breaking.
With a pipe cleaner and carefull manipulation you can clean out the FP hole in the frame from the back.
Taking the stock off of the frame is not necessary

Check the locks while you have them off of the gun and make sure they are in good condition. The sear engagement on these is cut rather rough whan assembled but they don't fall out of
engagement on their own or from rough handling that way.
Gun parts wear however and it can be a problem. Check for a loose bridle, the screws simply not tight. Make sure the two screws are in their correct positions. One will have it's screw head filed on slightly,,that one goes into the forward position on the bridle. The file marks are assembler adjustments for how deep the lock sits on the gun,,that screw head abutts the frame when assembled.
Some won't show any marks as the particular lock didn't need any adjustments in fitting depth.

Make sure there is a bit of trigger slack or take -up on the triggers before they engage the sear arms when the locks are cocked.
This ensures that the locks can be cocked fully and that the sear arms are not being pushed on by the trigger (blades) prematurely which can reverse the full engagement of sear to hammer and lead to a light trigger pull.
You don't need a lot of slack,,just some to see and feel that the triggers are off of the sear arms when the locks are cocked.

I wouldn't suggest removing the stock unless there are deffinate problems like this to fix.
The trigger plate has that Mack Truck of a top lever spring that will snap over as soon as the plate is pulled free of the frame.
For many, getting that assembly back together is where their gunsmithing adventures ends.
Don't be tempted to modify parts to be able to compress and hold that top lever spring so assembly is possible.
It's simply not needed.

Went ahead and ordered a cocking tool. $20 on eBay. Will keep it as I have a few Smith 12's. Is a se[arate tool needed for all bore sizes?

Sorry for the delay in responding Hal.
One tool fits all. The long arm of the cocking rod must be ROTATED DOWN using the opposing cocking rod arm as a lever.





It takes some effort as you are working against the force of the mainspring, and you will feel a "click" when the hammer is cocked.

What did you find in the innards of your friend's Smith?

Thanks. We did not begin to disassemble.

I don't know when it started and stopped, but Hunter Arms Co. supplied a tool in the box with the gun, but it was not for cocking the arms, it was for taking the locks apart. Somewhere along the line someone make one with the holes for cocking the arms. It is a nice to have one but a 4" adjustable wrench is faster and easier to use.

I have one of these tools- but agree a 4" Crescent wrench works as well- I noted some rather rough machining marks on the tool shown in the ils., or is my vision starting to "slip"?? RWTF