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Posted By: Mike Harrell 3 inch 16 ga - 10/06/22 12:51 AM
Many people question if there were ever any 3" 16 ga shotguns and cartridges ever made. I have a 3" cartridge, British made, and here's a shotgun that sold awhile back at Gavin Gardiner's auction with their description. "ARTHUR TURNER
A FINE 16-BORE (3-INCH) SIDELOCK EJECTOR GUN, NO. 12145
27-inch barrels with 3-inch chambers, about 1/2 and 3/4 choke borings, file-cut Churchill rib, mid extension, the frame, locks and gold numbered top lever with fine scroll engraving and retaining virtually all of its original hardening colour, the maker's name signed within a scrolling banner, gold lined cocking indicators, rolled edge trigger guard, 14 1/4-inch highly figured stock including chequered butt plate, 7lb. 4oz., nitro re-proof, in its canvas case with maker's label". Estimate was 5000-7000 pounds.



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Posted By: Mike Harrell Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/06/22 01:00 AM
I looked at this a little closer and the top lever number looks like a 5 to me. Doubt that but maybe a 3?
Posted By: Researcher Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/06/22 02:13 AM
A search of the A.H. Fox production cards has shown nine graded 16-gauge guns ordered chambered for 3-inch shells and one lone gun ordered chambered for 2 7/8-inch shells.

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Back in the day, these longer shells didn't carry a heavier payload than one could get in a 2 3/4-inch shell, but more/better wadding, which many gun cranks considered an advantage.
Posted By: Mike Harrell Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/06/22 02:18 AM
I'd truly like to find a box like those.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/06/22 10:46 AM
Me too, Mike. Heck, I'd be proud just to get my hands on a couple shells in good condition!
Posted By: Researcher Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/06/22 02:52 PM
Those are auction pictures I saved. While I've gotten a nice pile of boxes of vintage 3-inch 20-gauge shells to go with my 3-inch chambered 2-Frame Parker Bros. 20-gauge, the bidding on long 16-gauge shells/boxes has always shot way beyond my comfort level.
Posted By: lagopus Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/06/22 03:44 PM
Super collectors' items. I have never come across a British 3" box but I do have some 3" 16 bore cartridges. The cases are plain pale lilac and only the shot size on the top wad, being roll crimp, and made by Eley-Kynoch. Seems odd those American 3" cartridges only containing 1 ounce of shot. 15/16th. ounce and 1 ounce are about standard for the 2 1/2" with 1 1/8th. ounce being the standard for the 2 3/4". I don't know the 3" load but would suspect it to go to around 1 1/4 ounce. I have a 1936 Eley catalogue that lists 3" empty cases for reloading. In front of me at the moment I have a box of Eley 'Maximum' brand cartridges; the existence of which I have never found in Eley catalogues nor Bill Harding's book on Eley. These are for 2 1/2" chambers and contain 1 1/16th. ounce. I can't say I have ever seen a 3" chamber 16 bore gun but they must be out there in small numbers. Lagopus.....
Posted By: old colonel Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/06/22 04:49 PM
You can always buy 3in brass from Rocky Mountain Cartridge Co, however finding data for 3in 16 RMC is likely impossible and you would have to derive something of a gamble.
Posted By: Researcher Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/06/22 04:55 PM
In North America, the "standard" 16-gauge shell was a 2 9/16-inch case with a maximum load of 2 3/4-drams of bulk smokeless powder or 22-grains of dense smokeless powder pushing 1-ounce of shot. From the 1905 Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalog --

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Our ammunition manufacturers would put these loads up in longer cases of 2 3/4-, 2 7/8- and 3-inch, with more/better wadding.

The progressive burning smokeless powder, high velocity, loads in 12-gauge 1 1/4-ounce and 20-gauge 1-ounce were introduced by Western Cartridge Co. in 1922 as their Super-X load put up in their 2 3/4-inch FIELD shell.

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In late 1922, Western added the 16-gauge Super-X load of 1 1/8-ounce, but put it up in the 2 9/16-inch shell.

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The other ammo manufacturers followed suite, Peters with their High Velocity and Remington with their Heavy Duck Load (which soon morphed into Nitro Express).

The 2 ¾-inch 16-gauge shell really began to get some traction when Remington Arms Co., Inc. introduced their Model 11 and "Sportsman" autoloaders in 16-gauge in 1931, chambered for 2 ¾-inch shells. While Remington's regular Nitro Express 16-gauge progressive burning powder load was put up in a 2 9/16-inch hull with a load of 3 drams equiv. pushing 1 1/8 ounce of shot, for their new 16-gauge autoloaders they introduced the slightly faster Auto-Express with a 3 1/4 drams equiv. charge pushing 1 1/8 ounce of shot --

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The 2 ¾-inch Magnum shells with 1 1/2 ounce in 12-gauge, 1 1/4 ounce in 16-gauge and 1 1/8 ounce in 20-gauge first appear in the December 15, 1954, Western Cartridge Co. catalogues.
Posted By: greener4me Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/06/22 08:22 PM
There were three different loadings in British tables : high velocity with 1 oz, standard velocity with 1& 1/16 oz, and low velocity with 1& 1/4 oz loaded with nitro powders. However the Black powder standard velocity was a 1& 1/8 oz load. Having said that - if memory serves - the Eley Alphamax 3" load (smokeless powder) was a 1& 1/8 oz load.

Interestingly, Burrard shows each of the three velocity loadings with either 33 , 36 and 42 grain powders - as well as with condensed nitro (Ballistite).
Posted By: lagopus Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/07/22 03:07 PM
Always beautiful graphics on the old American boxes. Older British ones were better than the present offerings but were always more 'practical' in appearance. I have some old original Eley Alphamax 16 bore paper case cartridges and the load is 1 1/8th. ounce in 2 3/4" cases. Lagopus.....
Posted By: AZMike Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/07/22 04:43 PM
This thread got me to go check my shell collection for 16 gauge.
I found a full box (25) of Remington Express Extra Long Range 3 1/4 - 1 1/8 x 7 1/2 16GA
Remington code RAX16-7 1/2.
Green ribbed paper with yellow paper over crimp, shells look as new, box has the usual corners rubbed but sound
Posted By: Researcher Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/07/22 07:12 PM
Remington introduced the red and green boxes with their Shur Shot trap and skeet shells with the "New Remington Crimp" introduced during 1939. In 1945, when civilian production resumed, they rechristened the "Remington Nitro Express" as "Remington Express" and put them up in the red and green boxes, still roll crimped --

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During 1947 the Remington Express got the "New Remington Crimp" --

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The red and green boxes lasted into 1961 when Remington began introducing plastic shells.
Posted By: lagopus Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/08/22 05:32 PM
Rresearcher, I have the identical box as shown above but for some reason mine has the words 'U.S. PROPERTY' stamped diagonally across the front. The cartridges are as shown with a paper case crimped then with a paper label over the crimp. Lagopus.....
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/08/22 06:06 PM
1939

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Amazing wink Not quite sure how "the top wad gets in the way of the shot charge". One would think air resistance would slow down the fiber wads within a few inches of the muzzle

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Posted By: FlyChamps Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/08/22 06:47 PM
It's interesting that they listed the smokeless powder on some of the boxes and literature as "Laflin & Rand Infallible", "Infallible" or "Hercules Infallible", which Alliant now sells as Unique. And it's still a good 16 gauge powder.
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/08/22 07:46 PM
Laflin & Rand (established in 1872) introduced “Infallible” Dense Smokeless powder in 1900, then DuPont purchased Laflin & Rand in 1902.
In 1912 under the Sherman Antitrust Act, Laflin & Rand was dissolved and DuPont was split into DuPont Powder Co. (which retained DuPont Bulk, Ballistite, Empire and “Schultze” and was later DuPont American Industries), Hercules Powder Co. (formed by DuPont and L&R in 1882 and then dissolved in 1904; which retained “Infallible” and “E.C.”) and Atlas Powder Co.
Hercules sold the powder product line to Alliant in 1995.
Posted By: Researcher Re: 3 inch 16 ga - 10/08/22 11:59 PM
Load No. RAX16-7 1/2 was a box of 16-gauge, 2 3/4-inch, shells with the "New Remington Crimp" loaded with 3 1/4 drams equiv. of progressive burning smokeless powder, pushing 1 1/8-ounce of #7 1/2 shot.

Beginning in mid-1947, with the introduction of the "New Remington Crimp" on the Remington Express shells, Remington offered three 16-gauge Remington Express loads.

RX16 a 2 3/4-inch shell with 3 drams equiv. of progressive burning smokeless powder, pushing 1 1/8-ounce of shot, with the "New Remington Crimp."

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RAX16 a 2 3/4-inch shell with 3 1/4 drams equiv. of progressive burning smokeless powder, pushing 1 1/8-ounce of shot, with the "New Remington Crimp."

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RX16S a 2 9/16-inch shell with 3 drams equiv. of progressive burning smokeless powder, pushing 1 1/8-ounce of shot, with a rolled Crimp.

I don't have a picture of these.

In the December 1954 they added a fourth --

RX16CMag a 2 3/4-inch shell with 3 1/2 drams equiv. of progressive burning smokeless powder, pushing 1 1/4-ounce of shot, with the "New Remington Crimp."

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