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Posted By: ed good The Dynamic Mean - 10/12/22 09:33 PM
In the art world, there is something known as the dynamic mean...

i first leamed of this while i was in my flintlock long rifle stage...

later, i began to notice it in the fine gun world...

anyone care to exponjiate upon this concept as it applies to fine doublegons...
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/12/22 09:44 PM
It's the Golden Mean proportion. Never heard it referred to as the Dynamic Mean, until you did. John Bivins wrote extensively about it as pertaining to longrifles.
Posted By: BrentD, Prof Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/12/22 11:15 PM
Dynamic mean is more or less an oxymoron.
Posted By: ed good Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/13/22 01:31 AM
as i recall, the theory of the dynamic mean in art, is that a most pleasing visual affect of an object, is where two thirds of the mass of an object is contained within two thirds of its total mass...for example, visulize the silhouette of the image of the merkel doublegun dave displays at the top of the contents page of this fine forum...notice how about two thirds of the gun appears to be to the left and the final third to the right...i find these proportions to be very pleasing to the eye...now imagine the gun with significantly longer or shorter barrels...this change throws the proportions out of balance...and the gun is no longer as pleasing to my eye...i bet this gun has 28" barrels and a 14" length of pull...which gives it a very pleasing profile...
Posted By: KY Jon Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/13/22 01:53 AM
Always understood it was "proportion" or ratio, not mean. It is a constant ratio which keeps showing up in many different things in nature and man made things.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/13/22 02:51 AM
When I was building long rifles I always used 3/5 (three-fifths) as the ratio, not two-thirds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

https://www.britannica.com/science/golden-ratio
Posted By: ed good Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/13/22 03:44 AM
it could very well be 3 to 5...

i remember hearing the term dynamic mean at an introductory rifle building class, conducted at the gunmakers fair, at dixons gun shop in kempton, pa, just west of allentown...a long time ago...

if you define each word literally, dynamic means changing and mean is the same as average...so what we have here is a changing average...whatever that means. i mean...
Posted By: BrentD, Prof Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/13/22 12:17 PM
Originally Posted by ed good
it could very well be 3 to 5...

i remember hearing the term dynamic mean at an introductory rifle building class, conducted at the gunmakers fair, at dixons gun shop in kempton, pa, just west of allentown...a long time ago...

if you define each word literally, dynamic means changing and mean is the same as average...so what we have here is a changing average...whatever that means. i mean...

You heard wrong. 1.6 and change.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
Posted By: AGS Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/13/22 01:21 PM
Originally Posted by ed good
it could very well be 3 to 5...

i remember hearing the term dynamic mean at an introductory rifle building class, conducted at the gunmakers fair, at dixons gun shop in kempton, pa, just west of allentown...a long time ago...

if you define each word literally, dynamic means changing and mean is the same as average...so what we have here is a changing average...whatever that means. i mean...

It has two meanings that I know of. Aristotal applied it to a concept of the middle ground between two extremes. He contended that most values fell in this narrower range. ( Most people or things were middle of the road.) His position was that the variation within this area was the one of importance, and that the most common value always fell in one end of the golden mean or the other. The extremes usually are small and unvarying, so don't really affect anything. (Think politics)

The more important and widespread is referred to as the golden mean (or ratio) in math and art. For the layman it is 5:8 (or 8:5 more rigourisly). Numerically it is 1.625 in useful terms. The actual mathematical number is an indeterminate number of 1.612.......

The most common application is that a picture with these ratios isconsidered the most pleasing, as is the placement of elements in the picture according to this ratio. This applies to both the relation of the object in the picture and the relations between elements.

In math it is one of the most famous theorems in the world. There is a decent quick writeup here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number

A Fibonacci sequence is a series of interrelated numbers increasing in value with a specific relationship. In practical terms it defines most of the complex sequences of shape in nature, almost all of which are considered to have great beauty, form, grace or whatever you want to call it. Chambered Nautilus shells are often presented as an exampled. Spiral galaxies. The seeds in a sunflower head(look closely under a magnifier). I have often thought that sheep horns probably do, giving them a beautiful and desired shape. If you look at the link, you will see at the first the classic example always shown in math books. It is a rectangle of the golden ratio, with subsequently smaller ones fitting in a spiraling pattern of decreasing sizes until they disappear due to size, yet they all fit exactly as they are rotated and inserted.

This is a subject on which entire books have been written and people spend their lives studying.

My take on the theory mentioned by Ed is that it is an offshoot on Aristotle's philosophical approach. Pleasing guns lie between the extremes; who wants a shotgun 8 feet long or 1 foot long. Within the commonly accepted middle range, the desireable range has the bulk of the mass distributed closer to one end than the other. You can place whatever value you want to the balance point, but if nature is a guide, the value could be argued to be 1.612....

Edit------

here is a link discussing it's application to art, which is closer to the original post subject:

https://emptyeasel.com/2009/01/20/a...lden-section-or-golden-mean-for-artists/
Posted By: Run With The Fox Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/13/22 03:57 PM
Many great photographers (Ansel Adams, Annie Leibowitz, Alfred Eisenstadt and Margaurite Bourke-White) used the "rule of thirds
" as to a captivating means to draw the viewer's eye to the central focus point of theit picture. RWTF
Posted By: ed good Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/13/22 04:18 PM
great, lots of interesting info...

do lets apply it to our favorite doublegons...

mine is dave's merkel...

what is yours?

but then, there is this one...or any like it...a 16 ga fox with 28" barrels and 14" length of pull...a true work of art...

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...e-one-.cfm?gun_id=102050448&cdn_bp=1
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/14/22 01:29 AM
Your initial post leads up to a sales pitch....

Can't believe you are selling the gOlden gun Ed.
Posted By: mc Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/14/22 02:03 AM
Everthing edd post leads a sales pitch .once a hukster
Posted By: ed good Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/14/22 12:12 PM
jOe, how ya bin?
Posted By: battle Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/14/22 12:51 PM
The Ed still doesn't offer an inspection period...
Posted By: Run With The Fox Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/14/22 12:54 PM
So that means we have to take his word about the glowing descriptions he touts on Gun Busters website? Wowie, that could a real "Running on blind faith" scenario. RWTF
Posted By: ed good Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/14/22 01:44 PM
foxie: just a reminder, i would never be party to putting a dangerous weapon in your hands...for most udders, pls do read some of my 1685 positive feedbacks on gb...

https://www.gunbroker.com/a/feedback/profile/128526
Posted By: ed good Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/14/22 01:48 PM
battle: it is true, i do not provide inspection periods...however, i do accept returns depending on buyers attitude and demeanor...

however, it is a mute point as you an i will never do bidness...
Posted By: ed good Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/14/22 01:55 PM
any udder mal contents wanna chime in here...go right ah head...

an here is a little novello that illustrates why i am so selective about who i choose to do bidness with...


Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/16/22 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by ed good
foxie: just a reminder, i would never be party to putting a dangerous weapon in your hands...for most udders, pls do read some of my 1685 positive feedbacks on gb...

https://www.gunbroker.com/a/feedback/profile/128526

Lol.....you don't get them feedbacks for free.
Posted By: ed good Re: The Dynamic Mean - 10/16/22 04:02 PM
right on jOe...always workin to keep my customers happy...resulting repeat bidness an referrals...name o de game...
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