A P-36 hit it during an airshow in Dallas yesterday. Was it "Sentimental Journey"? Both aircraft were destroyed, with 6 lives lost.
Texas Raiders
Out of Dallas
Shocking video. Absolutely no time between collision and hitting the ground. You knew instantly all were dead. Tragic.
A P-36 hit it during an airshow in Dallas yesterday. Was it "Sentimental Journey"? Both aircraft were destroyed, with 6 lives lost.
Not a P36. A P63 King Cobra. The design was heavily influenced by Soviet engineers and test pilots brought to Bell. There were only 5 airworthy P63s left in the world, and the one that crashed was the only P63F variant left in the world. Only a few Fs were built.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_P-63_KingcobraI’ve never seen an aircraft come apart quite like that B17 did.
Best,
Ted
The 6 lives lost were terrible. But I'm afraid the greater loss is the aircraft. Those aircraft are part of an important history that we need to know and having tangible samples of them to view and appreciate brings home an appreciation that this history actually did happen. Knowing history is a good way of not repeating it. Ted's right. There are no more P-63F King Cobra's in the world today and it is a little darker for it. So few remaining military equipment from WWII and now sadly is too of those who lived through it. Sad.
Men who climbed into those B-17’s were brave, determined men. Some of the daily loss rates must have told those men the odds of rotating out were very, very bad. Watching planes, with friends go down, or fellow crew men get hit or killed had to sobering. By 1943-44 fighter tactics had been perfected against bombers and the attrition rates per mission was grinding down plane and crew numbers at almost impossible to replace numbers. If 10% per mission were lost getting to 25, then 28 or 30 mission was almost impossible. Some made it, many did not.
I had two uncles in Sherman’s, who fought and survived Tigers, but both thought their cousin, who was a ball turret gunner was either braver, crazier or dumber than they were. Differed depending on the moods of three vets who rarely talked about the war. Few family vets talked about what they saw or did in the war. None of them tolerated REMF who talked a Great War but saw almost no combat. They knew and had a way of shutting them down.
The 6 lives lost were terrible. But I'm afraid the greater loss is the aircraft.
I feel certain that the families of those killed would disagree most vehemently. Good lord, man.
JR
The 6 lives lost were terrible. But I'm afraid the greater loss is the aircraft.
I feel certain that the families of those killed would disagree most vehemently. Good lord, man.
JR
Well, your right John, I would not expect them to agree with me. But, having a greater sorrow for the loss of history doesn't necessarily diminish the loss of life either. The men that maintained and flew those planes knew their value to the world.
In my time in the Marine Corps, REMF stood for Rear Echelon Mother [censored - come on man!]-- RMEF?? maybe in your branch it was different than mine. No words to express the tragedy played out in the tragic loss of the the crew and pilot(s) of both vintage aircraft. In WW!! in the ETO, my favorite fighter pilot and fighter plane was Chuck Yeager and his P51-D Mustang. RWTF
The 6 lives lost were terrible. But I'm afraid the greater loss is the aircraft. Sad.
What's "sad" is that someone would actually put the above thought into print. Gil
The 6 lives lost were terrible. But I'm afraid the greater loss is the aircraft.
Somethings never change, some people as well. More compassion for a piece of manmade machinery than human life itself. Wow.
The 6 lives lost were terrible. But I'm afraid the greater loss is the aircraft. Sad.
What's "sad" is that someone would actually put the above thought into print. Gil
Sad indeed... but not at all surprising. This is what you get from those who support aborting babies right up until the moment of birth.
The 6 lives lost were terrible. But I'm afraid the greater loss is the aircraft.
Somethings never change, some people as well. More compassion for a piece of manmade machinery than human life itself. Wow.
Let's not paint with a wide brush here. If it were but a pair of Cessna's, my deep sympathies would rest with the pilots only. How many B-17s and P-63 King Cobra's are left in the world? BTW, they were made for an event that consumed about 20 million times the life this incident did. Some perspective is helpful.
I believe that if those aircraft hadn't fulfilled their missions so long ago, we would all be speaking a different language today!
Karl
The 6 lives lost were terrible. But I'm afraid the greater loss is the aircraft.
Somethings never change, some people as well. More compassion for a piece of manmade machinery than human life itself. Wow.
Let's not paint with a wide brush here. If it were but a pair of Cessna's, my deep sympathies would rest with the pilots only. How many B-17s and P-63 King Cobra's are left in the world? BTW, they were made for an event that consumed about 20 million times the life this incident did. Some perspective is helpful.
You really don't get it, do you? This value of human life thing?
JR
On display at the Mighty 8th Air Force Museum outside of Savannah there is on display a restored B17. The Smithsonian has one. A bit of history:
"From May 1942 to July 1945, the Eighth planned and precisely executed America's daylight strategic bombing campaign against Nazi-occupied Europe, and in doing so the organization compiled an impressive war record. That record, however, carried a high price. For instance, the Eighth suffered about half of the U.S. Army Air Force's casualties (47,483 out of 115,332), including more than 26,000 dead. The Eighth's brave men earned 17 Medals of Honor, 220 Distinguished Service Crosses, and 442,000 Air Medals. The Eighth's combat record also shows 566 aces (261 fighter pilots with 31 having 15 or more victories and 305 enlisted gunners), over 440,000 bomber sorties to drop 697,000 tons of bombs, and over 5,100 aircraft losses and 11,200 aerial victories."
26,000 airmen dead. I bet not a single member of their KIA's families shed a tear over the loss of the plane. I bet the survivors who bailed out only to learn that others in the plane didn't survive didn't proclaim it was more terrible to lose the plane than the men. While not in a B17, but a B25, I can assure you my mom didn't mourn the loss of the plane her brother Tom was in when it was shot down over Wewak, New Guinea on October 16, 1943. Losing a 75 year old B17 doesn't diminish the loss of those who served in WWII nor does it diminish the terrible loss suffered by the families of the recent crash. It's a strange argument to insist that the greater tragedy was the loss of a 75 year old B17 and the fighter plane that hit it rather than the loss of the 6 men who died flying the planes. Yes, some perspective would be helpful, but not for whom you think needs it. Rule of Holes: When you're at the bottom of a hole and you can't get out, don't keep digging. Gil
I didn't paint anything with a wide brush. Anyone here who is interested can go back and look through your old posts to see that you haven't changed one whit in the last 10-12 years. You're a self proclaimed liberal. You know it and I know it, because you've bragged about it in previous posts.
If anybody painted anything here it was you painting your own portrait, one of a lib who typically puts little value on human life, from the womb to old age.
You guys are being very insistent on accepting offense where none is being offered.
I am not the least bit offended. You misread me. I am simply reminded that there are things and people that have not changed, and are at times wolves in sheep's clothing.
I've made my point, now I'm done.
Best to you, nca225