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Posted By: ed good army & navy sidelock - 12/28/22 08:08 PM
maker unknown...

noticed there is no third fastener and no dolls head...

london proofed 1904 to 1926...

so, off hand, who made side locks in this configuration in this era?
Posted By: Run With The Fox Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/28/22 08:13 PM
Gee Eddie- where are the photos of this "maker unknown" escopeta?? RWTF
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/28/22 09:00 PM
preliminary research suggest william evans or webley & scott..

any others that come to mind?...
Posted By: skeettx Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/28/22 11:29 PM
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/958144514


Gibbs and Pitt?
Posted By: mc Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 12:01 AM
S wright j Wilkes r collings, leonard
Posted By: SKB Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 12:42 AM
Certainly not Wm. Evans, he was a retailer not a maker. Most A&N guns were sourced through Webley.
Posted By: Parabola Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 02:49 PM
Ed,

I take it from the date you give for the Proof marks that the gun you are asking about is not the Gibbs and Pitt patent A&N that Skeettx has referenced from Gunbroker.

You do not provide photos or a serial number and without those you are simply inviting wild guesses.

You mentioned W&S and William Evans. W&S is quite likely as a maker, William Evans much less so.

If you really want to know, University of Glasgow hold the A&N records and as previously mentioned should be able to tell you from the serial number.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 02:52 PM
He doesn't really want to know. True to form, ed wants everyone else to engage in his trolling, while he absolutely refuses to do any modicum of research on his own, even as simple as a search on this site.

A search here for "army & navy" pulls up no less than 200 results. Wonder how many he's read to try to answer his question himself.
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 03:28 PM
stan...you are no fun and a party poop...

as you do not wish to exchange information in discussion with others here who have common interests, please be quiet and let the rest of us contribute to this thread and see where it goes...

hopefully, it will evolve into a condensed resource for others, who might one day ask:

who made army and navy side locks?
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 03:34 PM
thanks to awl for positive responses...

regarding gun in question, here is link to images and information so far, posted on gi...

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-gauge.cfm?gun_id=102166677&cdn_bp=1

additional positive input is appreciated...
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 04:07 PM
popular whiz dum pretty much confirms w&c scott and webley & scott as makers of a&n guns...

as to william evans being a possible maker of a&n side locks, here is link to images of an evans brand gun with similar lock and frame design as the gun i referenced above:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-wood-and-condition.cfm?gun_id=102159389

maybe evans sourced action from webley & scott?
Posted By: SKB Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 05:23 PM
Marked Wm. Evans, Scott screw grip action....where is the A&N connection?
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 07:01 PM
skb...check out the images in both listings...

notice the lock work screw and pin patterns are similar...

notice the floor plate patterns are similar...

even the engravings are similar...

suggests that guns were built around similar actions...

your input that evans built gun around scott action is intreging...

images of scott built side locks from the period would interesting to see...
Posted By: SKB Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 07:05 PM
They look similar because both A&N and Wm. Evans as well as many, many other retailers ordered their guns from WC Scott. You are making this much harder than it is, as usual.
Posted By: mc Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 07:15 PM
Well I'm confused one is a bar action sidelock the other back action sidelock evens looks like an original finish gun or really good restoration the a&n not so much. the pins are nothing alike and I think both are way over priced I think both started at scott, the a&n is trying to be a London gun.but I could be wrong
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 07:15 PM
and then, there is the provocative probability, that scott sold semi finished actions or even complete semi finished guns to job lot finishing shops, who, in turn sold guns in lots to whom ever placed an order...

for example, it is known that cashmore of birmingham, uk sold finished guns in branded lots to kirkwood bros of boston...

wonder who made english style guns branded iver johnson and a&f?
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 07:21 PM
mc: i posted below links to both listings?

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-gauge.cfm?gun_id=102166677&cdn_bp=1


https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-and-condition.cfm?gun_id=102159389#lg-4

hope this helps...
Posted By: mc Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 07:44 PM
Anything you need to know is out on the internet ,I don't know why you always have to do this sales pitch dance
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 09:27 PM
well, its mostly for information gathering, entertainment and creating a consolidation of data for future reference...

no one is forcing you to particapate...

oh, and did my post above help you see the similarities between the a&n and evans guns? or not...
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 10:54 PM
look what i found...

https://www.scribd.com/article/517099205/Webley-Scott-Makers-To-The-Trade

seems like william evans made nothing and sourced their guns from w&s...in ter resting...
Posted By: mc Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 11:39 PM
I think your gun was sourced from Scott and made up by Leonard.evens bought guns out but I don't know if they finished them in house or had a outworker network.gunswith evens name are generally nicely finished.you have a Scott sold by army navy that is all that matters
Posted By: RARiddell Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/29/22 11:55 PM
I think at this point in the post you could literally make a Time Machine and bring back Webley or Scott and they could tell Ed personally that they made the gun and he would argue otherwise. This is turning out to be a comical merry go round. Hopefully Ed will post more of his guns he’s trying to hock!
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/30/22 01:52 AM
"you have a Scott sold by army navy"...

well the wind is certainly blowin that direction...(pun intended)...

but, what bout that lack of dolls head and screw grip features?

now its gonna be fun to find out what the researchers at glasgow u report...
Posted By: mc Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/30/22 02:59 AM
"Glasgow reserachers to edd" Mr good you have a Scott shotgun sold by Army and Navy the end
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/30/22 05:37 AM
most likely, cept maybe it was custom made for rear admiral sir percy windbagton,mco or perhaps for major general lord stan lee, dso, dco, bso...

Posted By: Mr W martin Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/30/22 05:34 PM
ed good, there isn't any need to be disrespectful towards those who served in the British forces. If you have a genuine interest in army & navy shotguns once owned by British servicemen, search for Bill Reid VC.
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/30/22 07:32 PM
martin, well, this thread like so many others here turned into a farce...

reference to perhaps the most popular farce of all times, seemed appropriate...

no disrespect to british military was intended...

suggest you lighten up...or perhaps take up your feelings of offense with messers gilbert & sullivan...
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/31/22 02:42 AM
and speaking of taking offense, your identifing yourself as from scotland, uk, could be considered as offensive...to some, who dont much cotton to the uk thing...

but then, everybody is bound to piss off somebody sometime...otherwise, we would all become politcally correct lemmings...
Posted By: Mr W martin Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/31/22 11:23 AM
ed good, ......and some go the extra mile to cause offence. Good luck and best wishes to your friends and family in the new year, they'll need it! Bye
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/31/22 11:34 AM
Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
He doesn't really want to know. True to form, ed wants everyone else to engage in his trolling, while he absolutely refuses to do any modicum of research on his own, even as simple as a search on this site.

A search here for "army & navy" pulls up no less than 200 results. Wonder how many he's read to try to answer his question himself.

Stanford why you down on Ed he at least makes interesting conversation.....

How many stories about how yer granpappy ground swatted quail can we endure.
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/31/22 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by HomelessjOe
Stanford why you down on Ed he at least makes interesting conversation.....

How many stories about how yer granpappy ground swatted quail can we endure.

ROTFLMAO!


_____________________________
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/31/22 11:46 AM
Is Stan jealous of Ed or what....
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/31/22 11:51 AM
Originally Posted by HomelessjOe
Is Stan jealous of Ed or what....

Prolly. But you gotta admit. Ol’ ed sure has a lot of axes to grind. Yankees, Brits, turkeys…


_____________________________
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/31/22 11:54 AM
YouTube has all kinds of videos....I don't think Ed meant any disrespect to British officers.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/31/22 12:37 PM
Originally Posted by lonesome roads
Originally Posted by HomelessjOe
Stanford why you down on Ed he at least makes interesting conversation.....

How many stories about how yer granpappy ground swatted quail can we endure.

ROTFLMAO!


_____________________________

The fact that y'all find him interesting speaks volumes ...........just sayin'.
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/31/22 01:24 PM
well stan, it would be fun to send the ball right back over the net, right back at you, but alas...IJCBBA...
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/31/22 01:30 PM
Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
The fact that y'all find him interesting speaks volumes ...........just sayin'.

Just more interesting than your Granpappy stories.


______________________________
……………….just sayin’.
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/31/22 01:45 PM
now watt about this screw grip thang?

why do some call it a screw grip?

aint got nuttin to do wid duh grip...meanin ware you grab holt uv duh stock...

why not call hit ah screw lock or even a screw bolt?

but ah screw grip?

must be ah limey thang?
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/31/22 02:01 PM
an speakin uv axes to grind, you can add ah nutter one...

-fools from jawja, who come down to florida in the summer time and make a mess of things, by doin stuff they would neva have the nerve to do back home..............jes sayin...
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 12/31/22 02:04 PM
an ah appy new years to us awl!
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: army & navy sidelock - 01/01/23 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by lonesome roads
Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
The fact that y'all find him interesting speaks volumes ...........just sayin'.

Just more interesting than your Granpappy stories.


______________________________
……………….just sayin’.

I like the stories where his grAndpappy ground swats them coveies of quail the best.

Must be where Stanford gOt his keen shooting eYe.
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 01/02/23 01:24 PM
jOe, nough awl ready...

you keep jabin erm wid ah stick...

an hes libel to come back at juah..
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 01/02/23 01:31 PM
now back to the gon...

notice it has no top fastener, hidden or otherwise...

the only bolting i see is two under lugs...

whose lock up system is that?

purdy, ollan an ollan?
Posted By: ed good Re: army & navy sidelock - 01/02/23 03:52 PM
an does this fine gon in fact have what some refer too as a churchill rib?
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