A friend of a friend has asked me to look at a 16 gauge tournament skeet. I'm not really interested in buying but I want to give the fellow an honest opinion on the guns desirability should he decide to sell. Besides originality and condition, what should I look for in this model? What barrel length, grip configuration etc? I'm not a 21 guy so I really don't know what to look for. Thanks.

When the Model 21 Skeet Gun was introduced, 1932/33 it was offered in Tournament, Trap and Custom Built grades. By 1936, Winchester dropped the Tournament Grade, so beginning in 1936, the Model 21 Skeet Gun was offered in Standard, Trap and Custom Built grades. During 1939 the Trap Grade was dropped and replaced with the Model 21 Trap Gun (12-gauge only) leaving the Model 21 Skeet Gun in Standard Grade or Custom Built Grade for 1940 & 41. By 1946 the Custom Built Grade was renamed the DeLuxe Grade. Up through 1946 the catalog barrel length for the Model 21 Skeet Gun was 26-inch by the 1948 Winchester catalog the barrel length was upped to 28-inch. By the January 2, 1952, Winchester Catalog the DeLuxe was gone and the Custom Built Grade was back. Throughout its production run the Model 21 Skeet Gun it was offered with either a straight grip or a pistol grip. Pre-war rhe pistol grip was offered either with or without a cap. The butt was always checkered. A big drop in "collector" value if the bare wood checkered butt has been replaced with a recoil pad. The Skeet Gun always was standard with ejectors, single-selective trigger and beavertail forearm. The extra cost option of a ventilated rib first appears in the 1938 Winchester Catalog, after the Tournament Grade was gone.

Thanks Researcher. That's a big help.

About 98% of Tournament Skeet grade 21s are equipped with 26" barrels. Among all 21 skeet guns, the 28" barrel is much preferred in today's market. Just a fact of life and you can't change the barrel length. As Researcher states, post 1948 guns were more likely to have 28" barrels.

I recently added a 16 gauge Tournament Skeet (1935) to the stable. 26” straight/beavertail, checkered butt, 6lbs.11oz. It has some honest wear, but it’s in really good shape overall. It is extremely well balanced, and I took right off with it at a pretty challenging 5-stand, easy, easy shooter. That WS2 hit the far birds very hard with my 7/8 oz loads. I wouldn’t trade it for one with 28” barrels. This one is just right.

I am fortunate to have a M21 12 ga Tournament 26" Skeet and also a set of 30" mod and full barrels which were added many years later. I love the gun.
Most Tournament grades were made in 12 gauge but there were also some 16's and 20's made. In my many years of collecting M21's I have seen only one Tournament grade field gun.
Thanks to Researcher for doing such a fine job of giving us the history of the M21 Skeet gun.

After 34 years without a Model 21, in 2016 a 1953 vintage 12-gauge Model 21 Skeet Gun equipped the way I always imagined would be just right came my way -- 28-inch, ventilated rib barrels, full pistol grip and a recoil pad. Took many rounds before I got a straight with it. Then less than two years later a 1941 vintage 16-gauge, 26-inch plain barrel, capless full pistol grip checkered butt came my way and the first three rounds were straights!!

Years ago, I bought a collection that included a great little Tournament 20 with 30" modified and full barrels and the not too coveted 26" WS1 and WS2 barrels. Fast forward and the President of The Jefferson Islands Club appeared at our gun club to shoot. It happens that my wonderful little 21 lettered to the founder of his club from back in the thirties. Long story short, the gun is gone, to a good home. I now only have family 21s, my dad's and my wife's, both 20 gauge skeet guns.

I have been in the market lately for another 21. I have noticed that places like Jaquas,' Steve Barnett, Connecticut Shotgun and the likes want a little more for a 16 gauge- probably because of the gauge rarity, I assume.

It is always odd how dealers want to pay less for double triggers or a 16 gauge double but then put a premium on them when they are selling the same gun. When selling its is called rare and when buying it is called odd and claimed to be harder to sell.

John Allen, who once owned Game Fair in Nashville, was the world's worst at this, no matter the gun, bless his heart.
JR

You guys just don't understand. This is the price, write the check. "Rare" doesn't enter into it.

Rare is just a selling hype. Some things are only rare because they were crap when new and still crap. Some things are rare because they got used up. Something’s are rare because they just did not sell. I can see a very high grade gun being rare because few were made but calling any run of the mill gun rare is dealer hype. Had one dealer telling me I need to buy his 26” gun because in time those rare short barrels would be what everyone wants. Still waiting on that to happen.

I agree Eightbore. Really rare is rarely rare, just claims to being rare, often when they are not really rare. If it was a catalog item they are not likely rare. If they have been refinished then rare means absolutely nothing to the collector. You are more likely to call a high grade gun rare because they made fewer of them. But if they made a thousand or even five hundred are they rare at all?

Rarely do you hear the term "Scarce" which I believe better describes this
early 30's 6 pound 20 gauge.



...oft times it's medium rare

Rare means scarce or few. A gun can be rare, but not desirable. Big difference.
JR

Back in the '80s I was at a small gunshow north of Anchorage, Alaska. One of the first tables I saw had a Winchester Skeet Model 21, 16 gauge. It had what I think was original European, straight grip, and beavertail. Price was $1100. As I was walking away with the purchased gun, the seller yelled at me. I sort of froze since I felt I got a bargain. As, he caught up with me he said "you forgot the case". It was a Winchester marked leg-o-mutton made perfectly for the gun. It seems I have been hopeful for deals like that ever since.

And, some things can be desirable, but not rare.

I once had a M21 in 20 gauge with double triggers (like yours)---mine had ejectors---not sure if yours has extractors or ejectors. Not sure whether that makes it rare, scarce, collectible or whatever, but I wish that I had kept it.
Bill

I acquired a Tournament Grade Model 21 ga with double triggers AND ejectors. Was originally a long island lady's duck gun. It had been opened to more useful chokes for my intended use before I bought it. It had been beautifully restocked but had a error on the checkering. I regret not letting the stock maker from Montgomery, Willis I believe, "put it right". I also has the defect of 26" barrels, no longer in favor. Interesting gun, have not shot it in years, need to dig it out.

Sorry about digging up an old thread, but I just saw that Steve Barnett has a Model 21 that is stamped TRAP SKEET. In all the years I have been looking and buying Model 21s, I have never seen a 21 with both of those words on the gun. The barrels are choked WS1 and WS2.

In the July 1931 Winchester catalog the Model 21 was only offered in Standard Grade.

In the November 1932 Winchester catalog, after being acquired by the Olins at the end of 1931, the Model 21 was offered in Standard Grade (stock and forearm of standard grade walnut), the Tournament Grade (selected fancy grain walnut) and the Trap Grade (fine figured grain specially selected walnut). All three grades made in all three gauges. Also, 12-gauge Tournament and Trap Grades could be had with 32-inch ventilated rib barrels.

The 1933 Winchester catalog adds the Custom Built Grade in all three gauges with stocks said to be "specially selected fine figured fancy walnut." Also, the Model 21 Skeet Gun was added, offered in Tournament, Trap and Custom Built Grades.

By the 1934 Winchester catalog the vent rib 12-gauges were offered in 30- and 32-inch.

In the 1935 pocket catalog the Trap Grade Model 21 Skeet Gun with pistol grip stock is shown with checkered stock cheeks.

By the 1936 pocket catalog the Tournament Grade is gone and all the Trap Grades are shown with checkered stock cheeks.

1937 and 1938 pretty much the same.

By the 1939 catalogs the Trap Grade (all three gauges) is phasing out, replaced by the Trap Gun in 12-gauge only. Ventilated ribs are available on the 26-inch barrel Skeet Guns in all three gauges. The same in 1940.

The January 2, 1941, Winchester catalog adds the Model 21 Duck Gun.

By the 1948 Winchester catalog 28-inch ventilated rib barrels became available and 28-inch was now the standard length for the Model 21 Skeet Gun. Also the Trap Gun is shown without checkered stock cheeks.

The big 1950 Winchester catalog again shows the Model 21 Trap Gun with checkered stock cheeks.

What disconnect there may or may not have been between what the folks on the factory floor were doing and what the folks in the office were stating in the catalog is a whole other question.

I knew that the skeet gun was available in a trap grade in 1933. I have just never seen one with both words stamped on a gun. I guess to me, it just seems odd to think of trap and skeet mixed on a gun since they are quite different events.

During most the 1930s TRAP was a grade. Could be a field gun, a Trap Gun or a Skeet Gun. I have never seen a gun marked TRAP & TRAP!?!

Ha!! Since I have mentioned this I have now found 4 of them. (Two more at Steve Barnett's and one at Jaqua's.) Including yours, Bob. But I still have never actually seen one in person. Supposedly, the SKEET was identical to the TRAP but the SKEET was available in 28 gauge. Which only 8 are known to exist. So, would one of those be rare? Or scarce? Maybe undesirable?