differences?...

opinions?...

one better than other?...

a difference...or two...or three...

later utica foxes have different stock and forend profiles...

all utica guns have 2 3/4" chambers...

most phillie guns have shorter chambers...

utica case colors are typically brighter than phillie colors...

other differences?

6

utica gun top lever profile is different from the phillie guns...

dats hit?

Definitely not true. The first Savage-era A.H. Fox catalog that includes the line "Chambered for 2 3/4" shells." is 1938. We see this roll-stamp on a few 1938 guns but it becomes common on 1939 and later guns.

thanks for that...

any thin else positive you may wish to contribute?

but din, in 1926 new saami specs mandated 2 3/4" ...

so ah gotta believe after savage used up all of the phillie barrel sets they acquired...

that they did not make most fox guns 2 3/4"...and a few 3"?

would be interesting to know the serial numbers of any savage fox guns out there with short chambers...

Ed, not sure what you are looking for. Philly Sterly's were more different as compared to Savage Sterly's. Savage cheapened them up, but they did add some desirable models such as the Skeet and Upland. Early Savage made guns weren't that much different until Savage ran out of Philly made parts and started slapping none capped pistol grip stocks on them and bulky forearms which are plain ugly.

PS. The graded guns aren't that much different overall as far as looks go. The much later Savage graded guns often used black walnut instead of thin shell to save a few bucks and the engraving probably wasn't as nice, but the trade off in some cases is the Savage made guns had better Dimenisions then Philly made guns.

The steel used for the actions varied Sterly v. Graded Fox guns - even when they were being made in Philly. Barrel steels also varied (Chromox (which may be the same material as 'Steringworth Special Steel') , Krupp, Whitworth). Forend attachments could be snap on or Deeley. Wood varied from wretched to very nice. After Gough took over the engraving was poor, even on the graded guns (the C grade guns being, perhaps, the best).

Generally, the Philly guns were much better made than the Utica guns in materials, fit, finish and configuration options from the factory. For instance, if you ordered a gun from Fox (in Philly) the specifications for weight, barrel length, LOP, style and size of grip, chokes, etc were almost unlimited. Utica not so much.

If you handle enough of these guns the differences become apparent.

chuk, agreed, the phillie guns seem a little better balanced...

tut: how exactly did savage cheapen fox guns?





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My A-Grade 16-gauge that letters 1933 has the 2 7/16-inch chambers intended for the old "standard" 2 9/16-inch 16-gauge shells. My A-Grade that letters 1936 has 2 3/4-inch chambers. The serial number chronology, originally done by Lightner Library back in 1976, varies from useless to totally wrong for the Savage years. A letter is the only way to know about a Savage era A.H. Fox gun.


As far as quality goes, there is really a general decline from the first guns built in 1905/6 to those built right at the start of WW-II. It appears to me that Savage had a batch of new top-levers made with the taller profile and dumped them in the parts bin with the older Philadelphia top-levers and from about 1935 to the end it was a crapshoot as to which style top-lever a worker pulled out of the bin for the gun he was working on. Same for safety slides. Likewise as the years progressed Juglans Regia was seen less and less and Juglans nigra more and more in the stocks and forearms.