See this auction from 2018
Is this a fair representation as to what a gun like this should bring today?
Is there a grade determinaton for the Excellentia, that seems to be a name used for the model and have many levels of engraving coverage?


W.C. Scott ExcellentiaW.C. Scott Excellentia

This would seem to be a modest price for this gun but not knowing the condition of the barrels leaves a question mark. The subjective description does not provide the information I would need. I have a few other models of Scotts and although hammer guns are priced much higher.

Thanks Tamid, any idea as to grading? The one I am looking at is a clone to the one I linked. It has very long lines of text on the tops of both barrels and a Star in gold inlay on the top rib.

The fit of the barrels at the breech on this Scott could raise questions as to the barrels origin. Many of these old Scott's were made where the barrels did not have full reach to the top of the action and this one may be OK, it just that I cannot see enough of the action to barrel fit at the top to give full marks. Other than these questions and the barrel's complete condition and it's current proof, it appears from what I can see to be a wonderful specimen that I would like to own if it had not had the chambers length to 2 3/4 inch causing it to be out of even black powder proof. Also as a caution one should never bid (or buy) on guns without seeing photos of the barrel flats and action breech face and its flats. How often have you seen a seller show photos of the action face and flats?

The sellers comment that the barrels are out of black powder proof but the barrels are thick and suitable for low brass( I take to mean USA manufactured low brass shotshells) is a comment that causes a knowledgeable person to question much and produces the opinion that the seller has no understanding or very limited knowledge of the pressures of shotshells.

If this gun was in "excellentia" condition mostly meaning that the barrels are so with much wall thickness, in Nitro proof, and mirror bores then one would expect it to bring much, much more. In my opinion as expressed above the gun sold for much more than its real value as a safe shooter.

I know that my comments are more than what was asked by Mark, but maybe these remarks will help gun neophytes.

Maybe Dustin will comment as he is most current on the values of these delightful old Scotts.

Mark; is your Scott that you referenced Nitro proofed?

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell

Well, I guess we will find out this afternoon. Like a dummy. I just went ahead and bought it. I’m gonna go pick it up after work.

Mark;

I am hoping that you have found and purchased a jewel of a gun.

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell

About 2.5 to 3k for an Excellentia or equivalent grade in fairly good to excellent condition is about right. Most of these guns will have close to 3” DAH, sometimes more, rarely less than 3” though. A good many will be off the face, and almost all of them will probably require a professional strip and clean. The hook cocking system is very good, but can be finicky if things are gummed up. A lot of these guns are black powder proofed and show signs of being shot with heavy bp loads, if it was used for waterfowling, no telling how many overly stuffed bp loads the thing has digested during its 120+ years of use.
My Scotts are all Bp proofed, I shoot nitro loads in them that are way below the pressure generated by the bp loads that were used in the guns back in their heyday.
Another thing to look closely at when you get the gun in hand is the condition of the stock, look very carefully at the wrist and in the checkering to see if you can detect any repairs through that area. I’ve inspected a lot of old Scotts that have been fractured….more than likely the cause is from using extremely heavy game or pigeon loads in them. Higher grade Scotts usually have very good quality French walnut on them, many times it’s not the woods fault.

I have a Scott built on this action when I took it apart to clean I found a very high quality fit and finish just beautifully made gun and mine isn't an exelencia.

You found a WC Scott in a Gunshop near Blacksburg? Pray tell where?

I’ve been in Wisconsin for the last two weeks. I could’ve found this thing across the entire middle of the country.

Mark;

It looks like not only a jewel but one of exceptional beauty with wonderful French walnut and good stock dimensions.

Please post more photos and closeups of the action, barrels and butt stock.

I envy you.

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell

Beautiful Scott. Looks correct to me. Im particularly fond of the oak leaf motif on these higher grade Scotts. Very, very nice gun.

Dustin

Tubes marked “choke” and they measure M and IM. No perceived issues or modifications.

So is there a grade designation for these guns?

Mark;

Let's see a photo of the barrel flats. The barrel proof marks show year 1887 or years earlier.

The star has the number of points that I suspected it would have.

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell

1875, June: "Not for Ball" stamp promulgated.

1878, 23 Feb - W.C. Scott & Sons patent 761 - aka Triplex Action, coil spring back action hammerless lock; incorporates the Crystal Cocking Indicator.

Thus this fine Scott dates between 1878 and 1887 (though It could theoretically be post 1887; There are 1888 guns with "not for ball" proof marks.)

Yes, I once had a 12 bore hammergun with both 1887 and 1888 proof marks.

Are you positive that the locks incorporate coil springs? I’ve been into a few of these guns over the years and I’ve never seen one with coil springs in the locks. In my experience, The only coil springs on that entire gun are on the firing pins or “strikers”.

I have a lower grade if this model and I know for sure the main spring is a V spring because I had to make one there are two other flat springs in there also .and as I have stated by before it is a beautifully made gun.

Wow!! Look at the wood on that bad boy!! Gorgeous gun, Marks_21

There are no markings of any sort on the barrel flats

Very nice gun. The H&H Climax looks very similar. I'm not sure they're anything alike but look similar.

Dustin, about the coil springs, no I'm not at all sure. I got that from that font of all truth and wisdom the internet so it's entirely possible my notes to myself are wrong. I'll defer to you and the others who have been into the action. I made some notes on prominent patents to help date guns.

Battle, I always thought the H&H Climax action was just the Scott Triplex rejiggered. Gunman explained this in 2010:

The H&H Climax was essentially a modified Scott "Crystal Cocking Indicator ". It is my under standing ,from the unofficial history of Webley & Scott, that Hollands bought the tooling and rights to the gun from Scotts. They changed the cocking rod from pull to push and did away with the window.

If you compare this gun to a Dominion you can see a direct line of descent. Again the cocking changes to "levers" rather than rods and the Holland/Southgate ejectors added.

Scott of course sold the Triplex action to other gunmakers including H&H; Some possibly made it themselves under license and others bought the action in the white. If the latter I'm told there will usually be a Scott number on it somewhere. Check out this 2010 line recently resurrected:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...;Words=climax&Search=true#Post633451

I don't think Holland and Holland had a factory to use the tooling at the time this gun was being made by the time Holland's had a factory they had the first royal that I believe was first made by Scott and finished by Holland's.

Nobody made the Scott Triplex except for Scott.

It would have been crazy to make an action like the Scott triplex when you could buy from Scott no matter how good you are there would be a learning curve.

Agree