Just returned from PA, after three days at the Vintager's Cup. It was too damn hot. I thought the Vendor turnout was very good, with guns, leather, tweeds, artwork, books, shells. My pet peeve is targets that are hard to see and the small bore course had them in spades. Too close, in the woods and showing black underside. The large bore course was very fair and easily could have been shot with all but .410 and then only a few stations were out there. They had a FFL on site handling transfers and he looked fairly busy. A friend sold three guns and got his price. They had a few side events with fun targets and a 5 stand, I didn't shoot due to the heat that was described as FITASC on steroids.

I drove up Friday morning and spent abut four hours in the main tent. I didn't shoot - mostly because I couldn't figure out what shoots were going on....hammer gun, 16 ga. etc. I renewed an acquaintance with Kirby Hoyt whom I met at the Southern a couple of years ago and with Bob Nay of Macnab. I talked for awhile with Toby Barclay. . .all know of and use the Reilly date chart now. Met "tut" at the Fox owners table, who turned out to know many of my former work associates. Somehow missed 8bore, Nitrah and eeb. I enjoyed listening to the two youngish people manning the gunsmith guild table - it was heartening to know that there is an association dedicated to getting young artisans interested in the sport, hobby and career.

There was a decent turnout of dealers in all sorts of shooting paraphernalia and guns - mostly high-end (how may H&H's can you look at over a set period of time?). Some gun owners associations - Fox, Dickinson, Westley Richards, LC Smith. The only gun I was remotely interested in was the Dickson previously discussed which of course wasn't for sale. I didn't think the shoot was super well attended but could be wrong - maybe 300-500 cars, trucks and jeeps in the parking fields with easily room for another 1000.

It was a pleasant morning and afternoon- the heat didn't really build until after 2:00 PM. The drive up route 15 past Gettysburg at 8:00 AM was charming with the leaves on the mountain sides just starting to change with a hint of color in places (and somehow passing Gettysburg the ghostly roar of cannon and rattle of small arms fire that for a Southerner will always be there). (My French father-in-law upon standing on Cemetery hill said, "Dieu voulait que ce soit un champ de bataille.") Stopped for coffee at a small cafe north of Gettysburg and watched the German origin farmers - working people - come in for omelets and brew. There were early morning mists that added to the picturesque.

I took back routes back into Maryland that afternoon. Rural Pennsylvania is so different from the South architecturally - the huge barns with multiple windows and cupolas + lightning rods and silos, the towns with close packed wooden Germanesque houses and front porches - the feeling of the small settlements and farm landscape is foreign - as different as Maryland is from northern Virginia - but strangely so connected in many cultural ways. It's odd that being so close. . I haven't driven anywhere near that route in 40 years since I crashed a Honda Goldwing in 1982, sliding on fall leaves up in the Poconos on my Honeymoon.

I attended Friday am. Seemed like a good turnout. Did not shoot (I didn’t register in advance and it wasn’t apparent to me how to get in the lineup). Loved looking at all the firearms, but didn’t see anything that I couldn’t do without. Had a chance to talk with Lou from CSMC (i have an RBL and Revelation) about a Win 21. Wouldn’t mind getting a 16 ga if I could get it about 7 lb. Lou said unlikely to get it down in the 6’s.

SInce the Vintager was only minutes from my home, was happy to be able to get to it.

I attended Friday and Saturday. Had an enjoyable time.

Lots of very nice SxSs exhibited. Excellent lunches.

A few organizational concerns. Guessing next year those will be gone.

Does anyone know if they will post results anywhere?

I was asked a question about who was the engraver. I didn't get his card but blowing up the picture believe it was Geoffroy Gournet:



https://www.gournetusa.com/

That was indeed Geoffrey in the pics.

I was there Thursday and Friday, I did not shoot the main event Saturday. The exhibits/vendors and food were all very good. The club has plenty of very convenient parking and space for three shooting courses. That said Warrington Gun Club was not fully prepared because of numerous glitches experienced with check in, course logistics and the five stand. The primary reason for this is I don’t believe the club has ever put on a large shoot. I could enumerate what I saw as problems but that just enhances the negative of an otherwise enjoyable event, and isn’t necessary. The issues are all correctable and I hope Warrington will host the Vintagers next year because the location is very convenient to a large number of Middle Atlantic and NE shooters. Perhaps a call to Rick Hemingway is in order.

I was there Thursday and Friday too. I would have liked to have stayed for the main Saturday, but couldn't. We met Melanie and Ray Poudrier at the hotel we stayed in. The heat was pretty bad, especially on Thursday. Liz Delaney was working hard to put on a good event, and she did well. I shot 5 guns, 2 10's, 2 12's and a 16. I won the 10ga hammerless class with this Pittsburgh gun https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=87134&page=2
I was in a 3 way tie for the long bird last I knew, with 9x10. I used a W.W. Greener hammergun for that event. I shot the 10 Hammer class with Black Powder, in a W&C Scott. I think that was the only black powder round fired, at least I didn't hear any other boomers. I would have thought there would be more, since a good percentage of the guns in use, were from that era.
Looking forward to next year!

I've been going to the Vintage Cup since the first year at Sandanona and the Southern Side by Side since the first year. The tent display at this Vintage Cup was the best ever, in my opinion. The spread out displays at the early Vintage Cups were great, but a bit of a walk for old guys. I attended with The Lovely Linda on Thursday, but wore my feeble body out and couldn't come back on Friday or Saturday. I won't go over the serious defects in the event here, but will discuss it with the Delany's when I run into them. I hear that the Delany's have a three year contract and I couldn't be happier. As a side note, the tent displays are my first love. I love to shoot, but after winning the .410 event at the first Southern, I decided to forgo shooting for shopping after that first Southern.

Thanks to all who attended! Scores are posted here: https://vintagers.org/vintage-gunners-cup

----Matt

Great pictures!! I'll bet that cased Winchester with the dog is a Kusmit engraved Model 21. Thanks for sharing!!

Mandy and I really enjoyed the event but the heat was punishing, so glad I wasn't shooting! I understand that it was something of a freak weather condition and fingers crossed that it doesn't repeat next year.
I hope that the event stays put at this venue for a few years, what we need is continuity to help it grow. Once word gets about that it is working, others will sign up.
Events like this have a critical mass: once you have got there, if the organisation remains strong and focused, it will grow nicely.
I really enjoyed meeting you all at my booth and watching people drool over the .410 SLNE Baker and vine-engraved Alex Henry!
Here's to next year!

Wow at the coats!

A few more pics from the big tent;





Obviously some of the fashion pictures were taken for French spouse who is always interested in the subject:





(Note: the style in the Verney Carron 1939 catalogue front page of a French woman ready to hunt or is it to fight?).

Very good photo work. I especially like the Verney Carron poster----Classic beauty.

Stephen Howell

Interesting trophy! Sure wish I could know more about it like a date and to whom it was presented and how it is where it is now.

It was at the L.C. Smith table. Here's a blow-up - a truly evocative trophy.

Thanks for sharing. I wanted to attend but had to work Saturday, alas. Hopefully next year. Not too far down the road from me.

I wonder who and what was done to earn that trophy and if there are others. June of some unknown year. I wonder how it turned up there after what must be a century or so.

On fashion there is in interesting dichotomy between Europe and America.
-- In Uk (and in France and presumably Europe) you were required to be properly dressed in the 19th century; pinks for the fox hunt; tweeds and puttey wrapped boots in UK; Loden hat required in the Continent. If you were not so attired, you were pretty much poachers.
-- In golf it was the same thing. I played a tournament at Marco Simone in Rome (where the Ryder Cup will be played). The young Italian women golfers were very concerned about their dress....men also.
-- In India in 1989 I was chastised by General Palit, not only because I was using a pump, but because I was wearing jeans. At the time UK commentary sneeringly referred to Americans with their new all weather synthetic coats (not proper waxed cotton) using O/U shotguns. (Oh the horrors of the colonial rubes trying to keep up with their betters).

In the US we hunted for survival and meat. We went out with maybe a dog in whatever clothes we had. It was a peoples' thing. Two continents; two traditions,

Still there is something said for being appropriately-dressed. If you sit in an Italian cafe and a beautiful girl walks in dressed to the 9's you have to compliment her - otherwise she is disrespected. And if you go on a game shoot not decently attired, you disrespect the tradition and the very thing you are hunting.

Sorry - I wandered into cultural wars on hunting; when I grew up we were not allowed to wear shorts when we went downtown to that thriving metropolis of Gainesville, Florida, pop, 29,000. The Tour de France photos from that time show spectators wearing ties.

So it is worth a thought on being dressed appropriately in the environment in which you are hunting/shooting. And that validates the style portion of these posts.

It would be great if there was a video of the full 2023 Vintage Gunners Cup.

Just imagine dust, heat and sweaty old men with gun fire in the background and you got it.

Not to mention overpriced guns, gear, and art you've already seen 100 times before at other events...
JR

I have the same trophy. Mine is a live pigeon shooting trophy dated 1892 and presented by the Colorado Springs, Colorado Sportsmans Club. It was made by the American Britannia silver company. I also have their original catalog showing the cost of this trophy in 1890 was the equivalent of $3,600.00. Quite a prize for the time period. It is 26" tall and as you can see it dwarfs normal size trophies.

Some information regarding the L.C. Smith trophy. Hunter Arms also awarded smaller trophy cups and Lenox vases

Trapshooting: The Patriotic Sport by D. H. Eaton
https://books.google.com/books?id=6aQvAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA211

An article in the November 28, 1885 American Field mentioned a silver cup donated to the New York State Tournament in June 1885, very similar to the one shown, but with a single setter on point.

The trophy cup was awarded to the State Championship of the Ohio Trapshooters' League starting in 1888, and other State Champions thereafter.

January 2, 1889 Sporting Life
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/53051
Rolla Heikes won the first $500 L.C. Smith Cup December 25, 1888.
$500 in 1890 = about $14,000 today

Forest & Stream August 8, 1889
https://books.google.com/books?id=TUchAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA2-PA52

Fred Gilbert in 1903 holding his Parker, with some of his trophies; the L.C. Smith Trophy is #4 but I don't know which championship



Gilbert used a Smith until after the 1899 GAH. In 1903 he was using DH SN 103649; no dolls head, no ejectors, 32” barrels

Was the Colorado Springs trophy won by J.W. Garrett?
http://www.adaman.org/Members/JohnGarrett.aspx

What a massive trophy! That's great info. Apparently, Iowa was once a notable trap-shooting destination.
Thanks SxS 40 and Drew.https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=like&type=post&target=635615

Yes, several of the turn-of-the-century top guns were from Iowa.
Fred Gilbert, his BIL Russell Klein and John Burmister operated the Okoboji trap club in Spirit Lake. Both Klein and Burmister were also accomplished shooters.
Charles Budd and Burmister operated a trap club in Arnolds Park, Iowa on West Okoboji Lake.
Charles Grimm was also from Spirit Lake, and at the 1899 Grand American Handicap at Live Birds Grimm was second to Tom Marshall

One dealer has reportedly said he will not be returning because he sold nothing. I know one dealer who sold two guns and yet another who sold nothing. Unlike the Spring Southern, there were no lower and mid-priced guns for sale. Lots of guns five figures and up, however. Not a buying crowd at those prices. There were quite a few tea towels and gee-gaws for the ladies.

I'm 65 now and don't bother with it much any more but for most of my life, when it came to how I dressed, I always felt (and still do) that it was impossible to be overdressed for the occasion.....quite easy to be under dressed. Maybe that comes from starting wearing a jacket and tie every day at school when I was 11. Always felt at ease in a jacket and tie. One thing is for sure.....women never complained.

Here is a nice video on the VGC by Edward Martin who came over from the UK.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lLq4UvhaOiQ&t=190s

Nice YT. Looks like a nice event. Will it be held at the same venue next year?

Yes, at the same place for the next 2 years.

Agree. I know what fellow who was just looking for a shooter grade Fox Sterlingworth in 16 gauge or 20 gauge to bird hunt with. He said the two that he found were priced too high by 30 percent in his opinion and he left with his wallet intact. He told me he only saw a couple of guns for sale at less then 2K in the tent and he was looking hard and any small bore double to hunt Woodcock. Lots more shooter grade guns at the Southern for sure.

Spending time shooting with old friends and making new friends is priceless. The targets where well done and challenging. I would cut them a bit of slack as it was their first time organizing this event and the weather was historically hot for the region. Looking forward to a more temperate (normal for the region) next year. My favorite "birds" were the flying squirrel paired with the seemingly very small and very speedy incomer parting the trees and headed right at you. The rabbit gone airborne was also very interesting as well. Not all the dealers were selling 100K+ pairs from the "Holy Trinity" and there were dealers not profiled in the video selling high quality guns at good values such as Vintage Doubles. The Morphy Auction people were there and you could actually pick up and inspect guns you were going to bid on. You could also talk to vendors and order custom high quality accessories such as gun slips you would actually use at not much above the cost of mass produced items such as Leather Link.

There were dealers selling guns at good values - I find it hard to believe that I bought all the guns (2) sold at the Vintagers?? Dusty, sweaty, "older gentlemen", healthy enough to walk about shooting vintage shotguns - hope I resemble that remark for many years.

I'll stick by my first post and say that I loved the tent displays and am disappointed that I couldn't come back for day two and three. I didn't attend to look at brown Sterlingworths. I am sorry that the vendors didn't perform up to spec on gun sales, but maybe they will change their product lines next year.

Sorry I missed it this year. Where was it held in PA and what weekend? Thanks in advance!! Bryan