I want to build a little "trappers' cabin" on my property to house all my hunting, fishing, and outdoor junk in one common organized place. I want an aquarium for live bait and a place to tie flies without my cat's help. My own private tiny sporting goods store with shelves, racks, and so on. It will get the clutter out of my house and workshops. If I move it can become an accessory dwelling unit.

My question is how much, if any, climate control do you think is necessary to properly store guns and ammo? Thanks.

Ryan,
i use a desiccant canister in my safe, however it is in a temperature controlled home. If your cabin has electricity, then i presume an electric safe dehumidifier would work providing power is not lost. I estimate that my safe interior humidity is around 40%.
Guys that have a safe in the basement or garage might have better information for you. Hope this helps,
Karl

I keep my safe in my garage. It's heated over the winter to about 40 degrees. I have a Golden Rod in my safe that keeps the interior temp of the safe closer to 60 degrees and the humidity in the high 40s. Never had a problem. And because my garage is above freezing, when I drive in with a snowy car, lots of moisture. Never a problem with the safe.

I had one of those canisters years ago and ended up throwing it out. Didn't work worth a darn. I had one of those Goldenrod dryer dehumidifier rods- it melted and scared the heck out of me. So, now I use one of those small, 3", 650 lumens, 60 watt bulb. It keeps my safe about 70+ degrees. No problems so far in the past few years. 👍

Over the years, I have had my guns in the basement, garage and boiler room. A few hours a day with the Goldenrod on a timer has worked for the last 15 years. The boiler room was a problem since my stocks shrunk and some got loose. Fortunately, they all came back when I moved.
I am not sure a live bait aquarium will be compatible unless you build a separate isolated area. Higher humidity in the summer plus a live bait aquarium does not sound like it should be near guns.

Seeing you are from Denver the humidity problem shouldn't be as big of an issue as other locations. Some form of heater, a golden rod or like one guy said a light bulb should work. I have two safes, one has a golden rod the other doesn't have anything & I haven't found any difference to my guns between the two, but I do keep them wiped down & use rig on the seldom used ones.

Being as we, both live in the same general area. I would be more concerned with the potential theft issue of having my guns stored in an un-occupied outbuilding. I do most of my gun work in my detached garage, but I sure wouldn't put my gun safe out there for a couple different reasons. One is it isn't climate-controlled year around even though I do have a gas fired heater in it for warming when necessary and two, is because it's unoccupied and it's just plain easier for someone to break into. My experience has been that it's not that big of a deal to carry a gun to the garage when needed while having the peace of mind that the rest of the time they are in a climate-controlled environment with people & dogs around most of the time.

My sentiments, exactly!! I wouldn't leave my guns in a building that I wasn't living in. I have an out building and I would never think of storing my guns there, unless there were hidden and with a burglar alarm. I might keep one there for protection, but that would be it.

I noticed last week, my local gunshop is now selling small electric dehumidifiers with a fan that go inside the safe. That might be a nice investment.

I have had a Goldenrod in a big Mosler safe, that I converted to gun storage nearly twenty years ago, in an unheated building all that time. The goldenrod is never turned off and has never caused any problem. Zero issues with the guns inside, also. Works perfectly. I have seen water actually dripping off the outside of that big old Mosler, and opened it to find all contents warm and toasty. I live in a region of very high humidity.

I have kept reloading supplies in an unheated outbuilding and used cans of powder that were 30 years old with no issues.

Most people use those Golden Rods. They are nice to use. I was shocked that the end of mine melted on the end where the cord goes into it. The whole rubber end of it melted which means it probably got hot. I still have another one here, but I decided to just use a light bulb. It is too humid where I live not to have something. I still take mine out about once a week and wipe them off with an oily rag. That's a good thing to do.

Thanks guys. I don't live in Denver anymore. I moved to the foothills (Kitteridge area) a couple years ago. I love it. I'm 3 minutes from fishing in Bear creek and the locals let me access private spots. I'm surprised this little creek can hold some decent fish. But at 7400 ft. it sure does snow a lot more and I need to worry more about bears than junkies. The lady who moved into my old house in Denver recently had her car stolen out of the driveway, so I get the security concerns. That is a good point.

Right now. this is not a very bad place to rob or trespass. My next-door neighbor breeds, trains, and competes German Shepard police dogs. They are mean! Well, they're nice to us but, I feel bad for the UPS and FedEx drivers. I'm not sure a door and deadbolt on a ADU are any less secure than the door and deadbolt on the main house but I need to think about this and an overall security plan. Every time I lock up my steel barn I always kind of do a head shake because all it would take to break into it is a screw gun. One could remove a wall panel in 2 minutes.

LOL, just what I did. A big old Mosler safe. I did it about 14 years ago. I can't stand the electronic locks. Had one fail on me with a Cabelas safe I bought about 23 years ago.

I had a buddy I worked with for several years. He was always going to auctions. He went to an auction once where they were going to tear down a jail. They had the jail cells up for sale- all the bars and the door to the cell. So he bought one of the cells. He took it all home and mounted it in his house and put all of his guns inside. You could look inside and see all the guns, but with the door locked there was no way to get in through the bars. It was about a 50-75 year old jail cell. It was really neat.

During World War II all manufacturing businesses had to lock up the drawings for government contracts in a safe every night. Pretty much every old building in my town has got a walk-in safe left over from the world war.

Often times you can buy the door pretty inexpensively, or even free, but moving it is the hard part.

And then of course, you have to have the walls in your house stronger than the safe door otherwise a thief will just bust through the drywall.

I've seen, what I was told, was an antique wood/iron vault. Once upon a time a train station, now a house. I think it was white oak. Wood planks, they were about 6x6's, laminated with flat bars of iron. Kind of like plywood. Oak/iron/oak/iron/etc. Imagine a log cabin with iron chinking. Presumably it was all spiked together. That would be a bugger to break into because for the most part what cuts wood doesn't cut metal very well and vice versa. It would also be reasonably fire resistant. I think old west prison doors used a similar concept. I've thought about recreating something like that just because it would look so cool.

Climate control is essential for keeping guns free of rust. As noted, guns can be stored safely at a wide range of temperatures, so long as the humidity is controlled. Not too dry or too moist, and never permit the temperature to drop below the dew point. Things like Goldenrods or low wattage incandescent light bulbs put off just enough heat to keep gun safe relative humidity low enough that moisture can't ever condense onto the metal. I have never heard of a Goldenrod melting, but any electrical device can fail.


Dessicants can work very well, but naturally, once saturated to their limits, they absorb no more moisture. Things like silica gel or bentonite/clay dessicants don't ever wear out, and can be reactivated by baking them in an oven to drive out the accumulated moisture. The trick is remembering to do so. Calcium chloride is a very effective dessicant, but becomes liquid as it absorbs humidity, and is very corrosive to steel. There is also the risk of getting the atmosphere too dry, to the point that wood may shrink or even crack.

A large bubbling aquarium is not compatible in the vicinity of guns, unless humidity is monitored and controlled. I have had great luck in recent years with wrapping guns with VPCI plastic. I even put VPCI paper in my metal roll around tool boxes to protect the tools in my shop from rusting.

"Thank you for your cashier's cheque. Here's your jail cell."

"Mercy buckets. Umm... What about the guy sleeping in the bunk?"

"Did you thoroughly read the auction catalogue listing for Lot 43?"

"Apparently I did not."

I had another buddy who had a large door from a gun safe. He made a safe in his basement that was big enough to be a walk-in closet out of concrete. He mounted that safe door on the concrete room and turn it into a gun safe. I believe it was about 6x6. It was pretty neat. He had a big enough gun collection to just about fill it, too.

This is something I have utilized in certain locations for at least 10 years. They are very effective. Don't ask me how I know.

https://www.burglarbomb.com

I'd rather have my ADT. They won't get into my house undetected. I'd be afraid of those things going off accidentally. But they might work in some circumstances. Like an out building. And what if you have a fire and the firemen have to get in?

I have ADT, too, in my home. And, I never said they were to take the place of security systems. I'm speaking of outbuildings. As to the fire issues I'm so far away from fire teams (and the outbuildings are heart pine which burns exceedingly hot and fast), that I'm not too concerned for the firemen's safety. It'll be gone long before they get here.

Does Otis still sleep in it? Gil

Mine sits in a hall closet and the house is climate control. I keep a half pint of uncooked rice in the bottom of the safe in an open jar which allegedly acts as a moisture absorber. Whether it does or not, no issues. It's also possible that there is not enough room in the safe for a drop of water to fit inside. Gil

I have an outbuilding also where I keep my cars. I checked about having some type of system like that. I went to city hall here about it and they really frowned on it. My police get here screaming at 100 mph and are here pretty quickly. In fact, I have had numerous false alarms over the past 25 years, and they usually get here before I want them to. 😁 But they told me that if a fireman or police officer went inside and got sprayed or had to run to keep from getting sprayed and fell, I could be in trouble. And the way things are today, if a kid or a burglar goes inside and gets sprayed, they told me I could get sued. And my fire department told me if they know that they could get sprayed, it could result in them not getting close enough to a building to be efficient enough to put out a fire. And I don't want my cars, tools and other stuff to be destroyed. I sold seven Model 21s so that I could buy one of my Corvettes. I don't want to lose it. ADT told me to stop burglars BEFORE they get into my house. So, that is the way I have my home set up. I ran the ADT system out to my outbuilding. So far- so good. But whatever works for you.

I use one of these as part of a security system. The warning tone is exactly the same as my tinnitus and I once set it off accidentally. I now take my wife with me when I arm it. She tells me the tone is quite loud. The gas is brutal and the residual is not as EZ to get rid of as we are lead to believe. Lesson learned and It won't happen twice. They work as advertised and are a great addition to the system.

One thing I find many people overlook, is the concept of, you can't steal what you cant find.

To the original question, Golden Rods have worked well for me for 30 years. Never an issue.

A small 120 volt heat pump seems to be the way to go. I didn't realize they had gotten so cheap, less than $500 on the web.

You're in Indiana, I know not where, maybe urban or suburban. I'm in "extremely rural" GA. Sounds like you've got very quick response times ........ that's great. I do not. Thirty minutes would be considered quick here. Thus, the difference in our philosophy. We have learned, over several generations, to handle a lot of our potential crime issues ourselves, with the sheriff's blessings. Getting sprayed is not that big a deal, it will not cause permanent harm, it just incapacitates for awhile and causes the perp to readjust their priorities. I accidentally set mine off years ago. No injury to me and could see no residual to clean up. Good enough for me.

I have ADT too, in my home. But, they don't know everything about every individual situation. After a break in many years ago I decided to get a security system. Investigator told me flat out that ADT Security signs around the house and the little decals on each exterior door is almost as good. He said he didn't have a security system in his house, but had the signs in his yard.

One tip for ADT. When they ask you for the priority list of who they should call first don't tell them the law. Tell them to call you first. That eliminates all those law enforcement visits when you have a false alarm. Has worked fine for me for 20+ years.

Stay well, my friend.

ADT does have my phone number. And they do call me first. But my alarm is set up so it beeps for one minute before it starts screaming. That gives me enough time to get outside without remembering about the alarm. So, if I open the door and go outside and forget to punch in the code and I leave my phone inside the house--ADT will be calling me and I won't remember about the alarm system until the police are walking around my house. When I look up and see them, I think--Uh-Oh, I've done it again!! 🙃

This may not suit all, over the pond in permanently damp air Britain I use the sort of tried and tested method of keeping damp away from guns. I keep all guns individually in its own trunk case with a Silica Gel sachet plus a pound of the stuff in the steel security cabinets we have to have. When I take a gun out to use I remove both packs of Silica Gel with the gun and on the guns return I Nuke both packs of Silica Gel in the microwave to remove the absorbed moisture then return each pack to their original places. This has worked perfectly with no problems for the last fifty years with the only cost being the occasional replacement of the Silica Gel and electricity for the Microwave.

That cannister that I had- had silica. You were supposed to heat it in the oven when the crystals turned blue or pink or whatever color it changed to when the crystals were saturated with moisture. But it would change colors and get saturated every couple of days and I got tired of drying it every day or two with 240 volt oven. Another piece of junk that sat in my basement on a shelf for five years. So I got tired of looking at it and tossed it years ago.

Vapor phase inhibitor paper also works great for long term storage of larger bore rifles ,and all shotguns, by rolling up a strip and inserting it in the bore(s). I've been using in since the '80s. Haven't looked too see if it is still available but need to because my stash is almost gone.

I just make it a point to take mine out every few days and wipe them down with a oily rag. I am always handling them - taking them out, shouldering them and just caring for them. I enjoy doing that anyway.

I hate to share this, but 65 years of storing guns, in and out of safes in the DC area has resulted in no rust or condensation with no help from rust inhibitors. Maybe I'm just lucky. For several years, my only safe was on a carport, unprotected from weather and still no damage to the guns. I have never used a light or anything else. Now I use a dehumidifier and empty it daily, still no sign of rust or condensation.

That is understandable since for the past 65 years Washington DC has been drier than dirt in more ways than one. 😁

Now that we have given thoughts to the modern methods of keeping the perennial enemy rust off guns and maybe tools. Now for a couple of old school methods that work for keeping rust at bay, Dry Rice acts as a desiccant in days past a small cloth bad of Rice put in the guns case before storage. Having re purposed many gun cases I have found a few grains of rice in some, it was only asking an old timer did I find out what the Rice was for and I have used it on many occasions. An other method for keeping rust away from steel is Camphor as it breaks down the fumes prevent the rusting process. Camphor I have not used though there is a lot of articles on the net about its rust prevention abilities, the reason I have not used it is because the smell of Camphor brings back not so good childhood memories of earache coughs and colds some how Camphorated oil seemed to be used for all sorts of children's pains coughs and colds.

I have heard that when people drop their cell phones in water, if they put them in a bowl of rice, the rice will absorb the moisture from the phone. I have heard more than one person say that they have done that.

It will, but it doesn't mean the phone won't die from the water anyway. From experience.

Luck probably has very little to do with this, unless it is considered lucky to know enough that it takes a multifaceted approach to keep gun metal free of rust. Common red rust is ferric oxide (hydrate), and the only way to totally prevent it is to keep oxygen away from the surface of steel. That isn't easy when oxygen is 21% of the air we breathe. Bluing on our guns is a different oxide that inhibits the formation of red rust, but bluing alone isn't nearly enough. Over time, unprotected blued steel will acquire a brown patina, which is a nice term for rust. So I would assume that eightbore is lucky enough to know he has to use something that inhibits oxygen from reacting with his gun metal, such as wax or a good gun oil. I find it hard to believe he has never used any gun oils or products that inhibit corrosion, especially in a climate with seasonal high humidity. All gun oil is not created equal, and some last longer and do a better job than others. We have all seen the tests and debates about which ones are best. Products like RIG or cosmoline are great for long term storage, but a pain to remove for frequently used guns. You can store a gun in a very dry climate and still get a fine grained rust over time if it isn't properly cleaned and protected. Perspiration contains salt which is hygroscopic, and will pull in moisture, which contains oxygen. So merely handling a gun could cause rusting issues, which is why curators of gun museums handle them with clean white gloves.

The vapor phase corrosion inhibitor (VPCI) paper or plastic that Stan and I mentioned earlier is wonderful stuff, because it emits a volatile vapor that collects at the surface of steel, and displaces oxygen. But even that has limitations because the VPCI chemical infused into it dissipates over time, so it must eventually be replaced. Naturally, it lasts longer when it isn't exposed to heat and sunlight. When we recently installed a new Fanuc 6 axis robot at work, it came crated and nicely wrapped in Cortec VPCI plastic, so I snagged a few hundred sq. ft. that would have been discarded, as my co-workers were blissfully unaware of what it is good for.

https://www.theruststore.com/VCI-C12.aspx

I would have salvaged some of that too, Keith, but probably not several hundred square feet! Good on you.

One of my Grandad's sayings was "Don't throw anything away. If you don't have a use for it keep it 7 years. If, after 7 years, you haven't had a need for it, keep it 7 more".

I abide by that and my wife hates it. 😁😁😁

Funny....... while I was reading this- at the same time that Progressive insurance commercial was on tv that tells you-- "Don't be like your parents". And the people want to save their worn out car mats and their left over crown molding like their parents would have done. Ha-ha!!

i abide by what is called the carpenter's rule....it makes no difference how long you've had it, and not needed it....if you throw it away - you will need it in three days...

best regards,

tom

Or, you trip over it for 10 years and when you go to look for it you never can find it, so you go out and buy a new one THEN it turns up three days later. That's why I've just decided to start throwing things away and buying new. I'm tired of seeing them lay around for decades not getting used while I constantly trip and fall over them. Or have them fall out on the floor when I'm looking for something else.

Oh, my goodness.

My late father was a tinkerer, a rough and finish carpenter, and at one point a Coleman repairman, and he amassed a veritable trove of hardware, fasteners, tools, spare parts, and gewgaws over his lifetime. When he had a stroke and my folks had to move out of their house into assisted living, I took everything in their cellar and hauled it to a tiny shed on a lakefront property we co-owned. Because, when you're six kilometres from the nearest hardware store, no phone, no internet, and you need something RIGHT NOW to solve a problem....

A decade later, my neighbor at the lake, an ex-Canadian Army combat engineer officer, was building a camper out of an old white Chevrolet van, to tour around in during high pandemic. A fine gent. One day, he saw me tooling around my mother's property eating blueberries or whatever, and hailed me. Because I'd told him I had a shed full of tools and stuff, and if he ever needed anything, to not be shy. "Hey! Look, this is a longshot, but I'm trying to rig a potable water system in the van, and I need a 3/8" hose clamp. The hardware store in the village doesn't have any that small. I'll have to drive sixty kilometres to Shawinigan. We were planning on leaving for Gaspé tomorrow. I don't suppose....?"

"I might. Cut me a one-inch piece of the hose you need to clamp, and give me a half an hour." He did as bidden. I climbed into the shed's attic with the hose sample, roused-out a couple of roll-your-own tobacco cans that my father had labelled "HOSE CLAMPS," and spilled them onto the floor. Ten, fifteen minutes later, I walked down the hill and dropped the appropriate clamp into the major's hand. I had only one of 'em.

But it worked. Solved his problem.

Which is why you organize, and label. Just because you don't throw stuff away doesn't make you a hoarder. And, just because you save stuff doesn't make you smart. There has to be a system for it to be beneficial.