Like many here I like to find the odd Lefever. Well here is one that is stamped DS but is not a DS. It has twist barrels and a dolls head rib. Why is it marked DS? Looks like a H grade to me.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8306655

Here is one that has been beat to death and still is over priced at $50.00, which is what I offered the seller. He replied his price was rock bottom and a good value. Busted stock, bad barrels with old nasty resolder and what clearly looks like a hole in one barrel, but plate is even in bad shape. I wanted the side plates and hoped the foreend was in decent shapes metal wise.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8276617

Is it just me are the parts guns getting more expensive every day? Seems like some people figure "old" is just so rare that the gun must be worth money even when it is a basket case with no hope to bring back to life.

A DS wouldn't have the cocking indicators either.

More expensive? Absolutely.

Look around the west where 'Log Cabin McMansions' are popping up like weeds. Many decorated in a period motif which includes the needed old shotgun over the mantle. Decorators are driving prices up on this old 'junk'.

As to the hole in the barrel, it looks like burst from a bore obstruction that was peened back down and then filed 'smooth'.

An oldtimer (passed away last year at 89) that hung out at the same gunshop I did a decade ago used to have an old hammergun with a similiar hole about 8" back from the muzzles. He still regularly shot it with blackpowder loads. He said it shot flame out the hole but it was way past his forward hand and he had been shooting it that way for 30+ years.

Take a good look at the damascus pattern. Can't recall seeing that on a Lefever before. Wonder if there any barrel makers trademark still visible?

Pete

That damascus is called "Heavy English Twist" and was found only on the H grade according to Bob Elliot's book and one I have in the shop. Best, Dr. BILL

Bill,

Thanks. "Heavy English Twist"! The name seems to imply that it was produced in England. I wrote the seller of that auction asking if he could see any markings on the tubes.

Bill, do you see any maker's marks on the set you have?

Pete

I have a beautiful H grade 20 ,at least that is the grade i think it is! It is not marked any grade!Has the dolls head and H engraving. Bobby

A Ca 1913 LAC catalog describes the H bbls as "Best London Twist". I have one H grade 12ga with a total weight of 6½ lbs & is built on a regular frame, not the XX one so they definately would not be described as "Heavy" twist.
There have been a "Few" Ds guns surface which have the H appearance, some listed in the LACA SN list. Seems the basic difference in these is the total lack of engraving, no forend eschution or metal tip, & possibly a lower grade of wood & checkering pattern.
The parts gun is an early G, note the plate mounted sears & also the pin through the frame bar, just where the contour starts. This would tend to indicate a two hook cocker. If one need many parts for a gun of this vintage suspect would be rather hard to come by as this version was rather short lived in the ongoing development of the Lefever Gun. Would seem that 65-70% of Lefevers are in the later Large Single Hook version with the remainder being divided between side cockers, rod cockers, two hook cockers & the small single hook cocker.
The price does seem a litle steep, but if I had it I wouldn't let it go for $50.00 either. I would highly suspect I could get that for that push button forend alone.

That looks like a DS with cocking indicators and the dolls head added. The prince of whales grip is unusual for an H, but spot on for a DS. The buttplate also doesn't have the Lefever emblem, which seems more DS to me than H. That gun looks like it would clean up wonderfully, and would be an excellent hunter if the barrels are good. All in all, another Lefever with anomaly's to ponder. That's what I like about them so much!

Mark

I agree it is a hybrid of DS and H grades. BUt the question is was it just a parts clean out gun or was the DS being evolved as time went by and they used the H grade as starting point. I have seen one other "DS" but it had damacus, G grade norm, barrels which were original to the gun. Figured they just used what was on hand at the time. Might have been out of twist and before steel barrels took over or they just cleanded out the bins and made the gun as a DS to get rid of old parts in stock.

I agree that Lefever has more variations than a few. Even with the books, good information for others and a open mind you can never say never with Lefevers. If it could have been done they most likely did make one of them.

Pete, Nope, nada, no maker marks on my sn 34349H. However these barrels are "hell for stout"! Wall thickness starts at 0.035" and goes up, way up-0.070", and heavy, heavy. BILL

Miller, that is good to know. So Uncle Dan is gone and they possibly have a new supplier for the tubes. About this time the tariff's begin to fall also the Belgians loose some of their advantage in the market place because of changes in their economy. 12 years later, circa 1925, there is only 1 Belgian shop still making damascus tubes.

Bill, thanks for checking. I am sure tubes retaining marks are few and far between.

Pete

These cracked "Best London Twist" barrels are on a 1903 H Grade, and the pattern is commonly found on Baker Guns & Forging and L.C. Smith Maker Baker guns



This 1897 Ferdinand Drissen price list shows 'Birmingham' and 'London' damascus, which apparently were lower grade barrels.



Sure wish all those maker's marks hadn't been ground off the tubes!!

From Little Gun:
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20d/a%20drissen%20gb.htm


So Drissen most likely did not make the tubes on a 1913 gun.

But you are correct Drew. The name of the damascus pattern has no bearing on the country of origin. I should never speculate when it comes to damascus...

Pete