Has anyone heard anything about Andy lately? Did everyone get their guns back? What's the latest? Does anyone know if he''ll go back in business? Keep us informed on this if you guys hear anything. Many thanks.

I wonder why you ask these questions?

Does anyone know if he''ll go back in business?

Would you trust him if he did? I don't think I'd send him any of my guns. :-(

I have received guns from guys that had them with him to finish up. Gary Donavan has taken over shipping them. Ken

His question has more clarity then your reply.

Send him a nice bottle of Chopin Vodka.

Andy screwed up and I am sure he would be the first to admit it. That said, I doubt that he will be back by himself. He might have a better chance going to work for another shop and having them handle the money and business end. He has burned too many people to get much business for a long time under his own name.

Sad fact is that he did good work and his abilities will be missed, but no one is going to send him more guns and money without some real solid assurances that the work will be done and the guns returned.

I just hope he gets his life back to geather. People seem to enjoy seeing others fall from grace and figure that they would have done a better job given the same circumstances. I honestly do not know what happened beyond rumors and tidbits from other post but when your life falls apart sometimes you just get caught up in the free fall and see now way out. More than one person has had a business fail and tried to keep it going by doing things that they never would have done under better circumstances. Ever rob Peter to pay Paul?

Ask a person who embezzeled money and they almost always intended to pay it right back, but the number got too large and they just could not stop untill they got caught. I had a lady working for me who had been with us for 15 years that did it. Family problems forced her into "borrowing money" and it just went on till she got caught. Ended up over two years time being a Best gun money. I ended up paying taxes on the money she stole.

She was like family and I did not want her or her kids to have the shame in a small town that she would have suffered from an arrest and conviction. It was like a lot of other cases just like it, it was kept quiet. She still works for me and will pay the money back if she lives another 125 years but her duties are different and she no longer handles the money.

In the end I decided that the money was not the important thing it was 15 years of working togeather. Some will say that I am a fool and should have had her arrested then tried to get my money back from her. Why? If she had any money to get, she never would have been in this situation in the first place.

Maybe Andy will get another chance. If so I will use him again onlyu if I am positive that this event he just went through can not happen again. Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.

I agree completely with Ky Jon's post. I have operated a small business for many years, not a gun shop, but still one that deals with the public. When the economy goes south, sorta' like what is going on now with the housing market and the wider impact it is or will have on the general economy, it gets tough at times. His reputation is tarnished forever, but I also hope he gets it together again and can perhaps find a good source of employment to put his skills back to work. If he is working for someone else that is responsible for the "public" end of the business, I would send him work. A good doublegun smith is not easy to find, and Andy is a good mechanic.

Jon,
You're a big hearted man and this lady is priviledged to know and work for you.

Andy's name came up Sunday at the range when someone mentioned that they had a Win 42 in his shop and had to get pretty forceful to get it back...work not done.

Jon, you are a good man.......dare I say, better than I would be in a similiar situation.

Jon I am impressed and only hope I would do the same.
I do hope Andy gets it back together for his sake. I was getting ready to send him a MDL 21 when this became public. I can only image how those feel who had already trusted him with their guns.

Not trying to insult anyone by bringing this up but I am just one of the concerned. I hated seeing this happen. And Yes Jon you are a good human being for being so kind. I just hope everyone got their guns back everything works out for everyone involved.

Money is not worth what we put its value at. Trust is. My "lady", just like Andy has lost that forever. I will keep her on but to be honest never will forget the trust that she destroyed.

Sad fact is that she should have kicked out her good for nothing husband who is too lazy to take care of his family. Big talker, fancy pickups, trophy deer on the walls, but too stupid, lazy or too proud to get a second job to keep up with his family needs. It is he who I do not ever intend to talk to, if possible, for the rest of his life. People who do stupid things are often doing them because of the actions of others. She was just trying to keep her house and family. He was off drinking beer, running stupider broads, and acting like he was on top of the world. A--hole. Man that feels good to say out loud.

Sad fact is you are actually supporting this guy, maybe even directly.

Let me get this straight. We are supposed to like and forgive a thief who victimizes those who in good faith surround her and who chooses to stay with a harmful influence, but we are supposed to dislike and ostracize her husband who "is who he is". There are many more points to consider but until she chooses good over evil, she deserves no one's respect. KyJon, give me some advice on how to treat a solvent active businessman who stole from me, a customer, years ago and has made no move to right the wrong. Should I approach him for repayment or ignore the (expensive) situation? Yes, he is one of us, and I am the customer.

It must be a slow morning and day for some of you. Soap operas got you down?

No, I was just a little confused and offended by Ky's two sided show of liberalism. Some people just don't understand the concept of responsibility, accountability, and just plain paying your bills. Don't panic, Cherry Bomb, this will all be over in a few more posts or even sooner. Obviously, you are offended also, only for a different reason.

eightbore,

How's that GWP Eva?

I agree with eightbore..........

If Andy had my Grand Pa's model 12 and this all came down like it has........well I think my religion would be well tested! That said I think some of us are missing the point. Yes Andy has screwed up! But I've yet to here that he's trying to rectify the sitution? If he cared about his name and reputation I think by now we would have atleast heard an apolige to someone?

I'm glad Grand Pa had a Lefever and not a model 12!

Not to even speak of understanding empathy, second chances, or opportunity for amends. LOL Then there is always the concept of forgiveness as a virtue and a gift to be given.

Being a Bar Mitzvah boy, this feels a bit akward but; "let yea without sin throw the first stone".

I doubt that there is one amongst us, or at least one amongst us who has done any degree of self-examination, who has not needed and desired forgiveness and the opportunity to amend a situation in which our behavior did not meet our values and ethics...and I'm speaking of the lady in question and not Andy who I do not know nor do I know the facts of what action he may have undertaken to rectify the mess he made.

Cheers

That quote is incomplete, people always seem to forget the second half.

Jesus told the crowd "let ye without sin throw the first stone" Then Jesus told the woman "GO AND SIN NO MORE".

Yeah, like I said...a Bar Mitzvah boy, so what do I know? LOL

Does this change the point of my previous post?

I once heard the retelling of a story that has remained with me for many years.
There was a disaster and the local Baptist church was destroyed. The only remaining building,built of worship in that town, was the Synagogue. The space was used for several Sundays and one of the Baptist members spoke for many when he said that it was a very Christian thing that the congregation had done to extend their hospitality to them. He was corrected when the Rabbi said that it was a very Jewish thing to do.
We are children of the same God and it is for us all to fail on occasion. We are, after all, human with all its frailties.
I am not on a soap box or preaching !!! But, let us simply realize that none are perfect.
It is good to ask forgiveness but not easy to do other than privately.
For any not directly involved in a failing, it behooves us to be silent on the matter.
Best,
John

I hit rock bottom once. But never stole from someone to get back ahead!
I think people in general would feel more compassion if someone(like Andy) would have asked for help, instead of crossing the line. Once you cross that line, it's tough to regain that trust!

Eightbore

If you got cheated you should do what you think is right. If that means going after him in court then do it. I have no problem going after people for money owed to you or me for that matter. I hate it when you get cheated and can see why you are angry. Get your money back or have him forced to make it right. But Eightbore, I did not do it to you. Do not be mad at me.

I had nothing to gain by putting this person in jail. The money was gone. I knew she had been having problems but did not suspect the extent of the mess. I choose to let her stay. It would have been easier for her if I just fired her and she had to start over again. It took a lot of prayer and then I went with what I feel was right for me and my family. No one else in the office knows or ever will know. Nellie just got promoted to another job.

As to her husband, he also is gone. Lost his driver lisc. for DWI second offense. Lost his job because he could not drive. Wife has a DRO, domestic restraining order, so he does not come around anymore. She has had to sell the house, move back in with her mother and has two kids to take care of by herself. What purpose would six month in jail have done? She stole under $25,000.00. She has paid back $9,000.00. It has not been easy for her to do it but she makes a payment every week. And in fact the chance that she ever got a day of jail time is almost zero. First time offenders are never put in jail in this state. The jails a over full and the Liberal judges just turn almost every non violent and many violent first time offenders over to probation before judgment.

Is she reformed? I do not know. If in the same situation again I doubt that she would try it again but I could be wrong. She does not have access to money any more so temptation has been removed. She knows that any job reference will mention not to handle money. I am not going to worry about this anymore. Life goes on.

I had two great uncles who fought over two acres of land for 50 years. Total value of the land was less than $25.00 when it started. They had married sisters and still did not talk. Went to the same small church, sat on opposite sides. One was a Democrat and the other a Republican. Had farms across the road for one another. If one got 1/2" rain the other claimed 3/4". Just about drove the family nuts.

I got them to bury the hatchet less than two years before one of them died. Did it at a funeral, by pointing out that when you are dead you can not say sorry or forget about it. Handed both of them a hundred dollar bill and pointed out that the rest of the family was sick and tired about the whole thing. Thought that they both were going to hit me but they could not agree who got first hit. When you are looking down at a casket you find more than the bottom of a hole. That is when you would give your right leg to say things that you never got around to saying. Life is too short as it is without having things pent up and letting them drive you nuts. Get resolution or get closure as they like to say.

BTW Eightbore, my wife fell over when she read that I had committed a Liberal act. Flexible and Liberal are two things that even she does not accuse me of being.

My original comment, which no one has responded to, is the problem with the lady staying with a harmful influence while accepting the mercy of others. Now Ky has clarified that situation by mentioning that the "harmful influence" is gone and the lady has a restraining order. After Ky made that correction, my entire attitude about the situation has changed. Regardless of how my friend Baron 23 responded, even he has not mentioned how he would feel about my example of someone who would steal a substantial amount from a customer and go on with a solvent business like nothing happened and not ever mention the transgression. Reviewing my anecdote, yes, he is one of us, a gun person. Ky, thanks for your comments.

I have never heard that Andy actually stole anything from anyone. All I ever heard was that he went under and went out of business. If everyone gets their guns back and eventually he reemburses the money that was sent as deposits, I would just think that he went under. But, I have never heard any real proof that he actually stole anything. I would hope that would eventually he will straighten everything out. Has anyone heard that he filed for bankruptcy? Please keep us posted should you guys hear anything. Thanks.

I don't believe any one called Andy a thief, but he is dishonest and can't be trusted.

This is what I still don't understand. I still never heard in what way he was dishonest. Please explain.

As I understand it, Andy spent the deposits, didn't do the work and wouldn't answer the calls, letters, emails from clients re. their work. He was evicted for non payment of rent (approx. 1 year) & had to go to court for writting bad payroll checks to an employee. Honest, dis-honest or caught up in something ---- who really knows for sure ? Sure hope I never get caught up in his situation. Ken

Jimmy W,
are you aware of anyone getting their deposit money back? If so how,I have a friend who sent him a Mod 12,he called with an estimate-never even opened the box,which my friend sent.After more than a year and the additional fees(for shipping it back(in the same UNOPENED BOX) from the dealer who now has them)he would certainly like to know.

My experience with Andy. I sent him a gun. Sometime later I spoke with him about the work I wanted done. He told me he had examined my gun and we agred on the work. Andy told me he had to have a deposit before he would start work. I gave him my Credit Card info and he put a charge on the card. When I got my gun back 16 months later it was still in the original packaging. Draw your own conclusions.

I just finished a 21 for a client that was returned from Andy. However, the $500. deposite wasn't returned with gun or mention made of it. Seems no body knows how to get in touch with him. Ken

You will last about 30 seconds on the streets

Wow. Sorry, I never heard exactly what had all happened. All I heard was bits and pieces. Hope he gets everything straightened out. Thanks for the info. (And thanks for your input there Buzzbee. I am sure people swat little buzzbees out on the street, right?)