I found an interesting Parker at a local gun (junk) shop today. I dont know much about Parkers. This gun appears to be a Higher grade, nice wood, Silver initial plate in stock, mild engraving, no ejectors, 28" bbls, beautiful B&W finish on the barrels. If it was a Lefever, I'd say they were twist. Ah, yes therein lies the rub! The bbls inside look like one of our Kansas brick streets...At what point does it become too bad to work with? This gun appears to be one of the smaller frames, a delight to hold..Dint want to show too much interest as the price would surely be affected...He also has a lovely DuMoulin 12 bore....cut to 21 inches Aaaargh..Whatcha all think?

It's probably a low end gun, if it has twist barrels.
And should be avoided if pitted badly.

Get the serial number and you can learn more.

If it has twist barrels and some sparse engraving, it likely is a P grade. G grade guns would have damascus barrels from my understanding. I have 2 G grades (grade 2). I believe the P grade is grade 1 and should be so marked on the frame watertable. The barrel lower lug surface should have a number marked in it. It could range from some multi "0" number to something like 3 or 4 or 5 at the heaviest/largest frames. If a 12g, most common seems to be a 2 frame size and #1 frames like my two are less common and I personally prefer them for their generally light overall weight.

Yup, have to give up the markings, inside and out, serial number, you name it, we need it.

I think....I know why you called it the local gun (junk) shop.

Maybe I should re phrase the question. I am not so interested in the pedigree of the Parker, as I am in getting some guidelines about barrel condition. Given a twist barrel, when is bad too bad to fool with? Are there any general rules for same? Should I "ring" the barrels? These bbls interiors are pitted almost 100%...The exteriors are clean Black and White......

Sometimes it just pays to walk away.

If the condition of the barrels made me nervous I'd just walk. You can't regrow fingers and eyes.

Without a thorough check by a competent gunsmith, you are at the mercy of the situation. 100% pitted is the red flag to me. I would, as HJ above says, walk away. If this was a Purdey or an exceptionally high grade gun there might be a different answer. On the other hand, if cheap enough use it as a wall hangar in the cabin!

Jim

There are enough good ones out there at reasonable prices. Don't buy a bad one just because it's a "deal". Been there, done that.

OK! Walk away we did! Thanks.........

Last Dollar: This thread is the "best" (meaning worst) example of getting advice that was worth less than what you paid. Never did you mention the price or the bore size, nor the intended use, nor even whether it's a hammer gun or hammerless. As to the Parker's bbls being Twist based on comparing to a Lefever...why didn't you just look at the barrel rib which plainly states the barrel steel? Your concern about the rough interior of the bbls is not well taken if its intended use is as a wallhanger. If you are thinking about shooting a gun with Twist steel barrels you need help that is not available on the Internet.

Methinks this was your private joke on Internet pundits who are so ready, willing and able to express strong opinions based on no information whatsoever. Or if you were seriously shopping the gun and credulously came here fully intending to go by the casual and/or careless advice received, good luck. You will need it. EDM

EDM, thanks for the perspective. For some reason I had a good laugh. We all, or most of us, have fun here and maybe try too hard to answer a question that is not well formed. Of course, others may just like to "gab" a bit, -------part of the therapy given here.

Another dynamic is members feel obliged to help and contribute with what they know until the cognoscenti arrive. I've been here five years and haven't developed a nose for mischief, assuming sincerity of those who post here.

Daryl: I notice you are from one of my favoriate places, albeit not at this time of year. I dedicated Parker Guns: The "Old Reliable" to my Parker mentor Dan Behr who now resides on North 9th Ave. You might give him a call to "gab a bit" with a like-minded Parkerphile. My wife Nancy and I spent 11 day's at Dan & Jane's digs this summer and expect to be in Bozeman much longer summer 2008, now that we have a camper. I tried to visit Doug Scott--did you know him?--but he had a stroke and wasn't up to visitors.

Going back to the original thread it seems possible that the gun might be a T.Parker. Ha! Don't we have fun...or therapy. EDM

KB: The range of acumen on the Internet is so great that one never knows. Just recently on the Parker Forum some guy named Morton asked some pretty simple questions about three Parkers he inherited from his grandfather. This generated thousands of words of speculation and conjecture via e-mails cc'd and forwarded; then the thread disappeared and suddenly reappeared, seemingly edited, the paranoia being that one or more of his guns might be for sale. He got my number from someone on the Forum "throwing me the business" who thought I "could make some money on the deal."

Morton called me completely confused and mildly irritated by the whole shabby experience. As it is, he lives just north of me near Madison WI, but has no knowledge of Parkers other than being thrust into ownership, where a prudent person would necessarily inquire as to issues of value and condition. He's a catalog sales exec who has obvious Internet skills and was able to post many really good pictures to help along the identification and valuation process. The powers that be jumped to speculations and concluded that he was making a thinly veiled attempt to sell the guns.

Part of it was that he had made the same inquiry a year prior but came up empty with the usual suspects posting that although they were equally in the dark they were sure some brighter lights would answer him, which didn't happen. Two points here:

(1) The guns are not for sale and our meeting to look these guns over is such low priority for both of us that it won't happen till after the first week of Jan.'08, and

(2) One guy submits too much info and gets burned for it on the PGCA Forum; another too little and draws some comment here. I don't see any mischief in either case. Others have made an Internet career out of divining other people's intent using superior intelect to read between the lines.

I see this as a humorous example of a non-answerable question getting various well-thought answers, somewhat reminiscent of the 24/7 news coverage of nondescript presidential debates that now occupy so much of the time otherwise better spent watching "The Office" and "My Name is Earl." EDM

I thought he answered himself in his first post...

I just wanted to see if you guys were on your toes, and to give some of the contributors? a chance to reach their pomposity and arrogance quotients. I needed to know who they dedicated rheir book to (what book-who cares) and that some guy named "Morton" lives north of Madison Wi. Teach me not to ask a question without knowing the answers. As to shooting a gun with Twist barrels, I do so most everyday,"H" Lefever, most productively. That in spite of the advice from the experts?...Thanks to the couple of guys who actually attempted to answer my poorly worded query...The rest of you can thank ME for providing a forum to display your importance..And Joe, I never asked if the gun was a good buy. Perhaps you could get Robert Chamabers to read you the post S L O W LY, so you could understand it..

Sorry if my request for markings and serial number caused you to accuse me of being pompous and arrogant. Your statement that it appeared to be a high grade and small frame gun caused me to reply. I thought I would assist you in your quest for identification of the gun you were perusing. A high grade small frame Parker can be worth up in five figures, with pits, and I was happy for you. I don't know that I'm too happy for you any more. You seem like a bitter man. 126 posts?? About what? By the way, can I hunt on your ranch next season? I'm not so bad a guy.

And I never said it was a bad buy.....perhapes he should read yOu your own post real slow so you could understand what yOu posted.

I think Mr. Joe got you there. I think the first post by Mr. Dollar more than implied a question that he denies asking. "At what point....."

Geez, this place just gets more weird with every passing day. Is the moon full tonight??

It's the snOw up North and the heat down South.
jOe

8bore, you werent meant to be included, I apologize if I offended.....The gun is a small frame and quite elegant..Yes you can hunt on my ranch and my neighbors as well...126 posts? read em..You replied to a few...Full moon??? AAAaaaaaHOoooooooooo! 2 more roosters today with the 10 "E".....(I actually own a Parker 28 DHE, at my "I'll get it back to you after the season Brothers" for the last 6-7 years..Bitter I aint, disgusted sometimes? yepper...

Do the barrels on the inside look like one of your Kansas brick streets ?

EDM, don't know Dan Behr or Doug Scott, either, but am sure they are fine fellows. Lots of double gun guys here and I will try to find these. Hmmmm, the weather today was fine until the snow. Plan to hunt pheasants on Sunday with a "hammerless" 1871 Wm. Moore and Grey 16 bore. It does have external cocking levers, though. Other fellow says he will use an RBL-----poor guy. Call when you get here in the summer. Not too many Parkers, but too many others.

I'm having a hard time following here...........Are you saying a gun in the hand is worth a push in the bush?

Well,regarding pitted barrels, I only know of one way to skin this cat. I am not aware of any way to determine the depth of the pits. The barrel wall thickness is the limiting factor. I know of no one who has determined a way to measure the depth of pitting in the bore. The best method I know of to deal with it is to carefully measure the wall thickness over the entire length of the barrels. If there is sufficient thickness to warrant it, the barrels can be re-bored with a .005"-over reamer and the pits re-examined. If the pits are gone, the deepest one was .0025". If not, and there is still sufficient barrel wall thickness, you can re-ream and take another .005" from the bore (.0025" from the wall thickness) and re-examine. If you get to minimum wall thickness (determined by who?) and still have significant pitting, then you are stuck. It isn't a perfect solution, and involves taking a chance on the gun and your investment to find the answer, but I don't know of any other method to find the answer. If it is a small bore gun of higher grade, the potential rewards are great as Eightbore points out. However, I have a VH 28 ga. in my possession with severely pitted barrels that still has original diameter bores (has never been reamed) yet has minimal wall thickness (from the factory). Therefore, I am stuck...

VH,
There is another choice. You can have them sleeved. If the gun is otherwise in good shape, this may be the only economical solution. It won't be a collectable afterward, but it probably isn't now.

Yes, of course - or sub-gauge tubed, or for a 12 bore, Teague-lined. But I was answering the original question: "At what point do they become too bad to work with?" No one had actually answered the question that I could see. My answer was an attempt to explain how to arrive at that determination. I had chosen sleeving as the only solution for the Parker 28, and even made an attempt to contact John Foster about it, but for now I'll wait. Maybe Teague will one day offer their services for other gauges (wishful thinking...).

Or he could buy it and shoot it...


Then imagine he's are a Kansas street cleaner.

Thanks, and from us here at "Hunters Ranch" a Merry Christmas, Happy and Prosperous New Year, and Good Gunning to all...........

You know, my wife is PMS right now. Damn. Doesn't matter what I say, its wrong. I always thought this was some female physiological condition that concerned hormones and cramping. Now, I wonder if she has "internet advice discussion disease?"

Merry Christmas.

Jake

So here we have a guy--Last Dollar--who shoots a Lefever Twist regularly and claims to own a Parker DHE 28-bore on a phishing expedition...or as I called it, a private joke. Or as he puts it in retrospect, a test of the system. Is anyone laughing?

In the bad old days of anonoyminity on the first Parker BBS, we'd have the occasional large-breasted dumb-blond widow lady who claimed to have found a tiny Parker in the back of her closet and ever so credulously would solicit information and finally, playing the pundits like a violin (or a fish), the otherwise unknown person would finally raise the stakes by seeking help getting rid of it--"Don't want no gun around the house." An amazing amount of time was spent debating the legitamacy of the postings, some defending the putative "her" as if she was a Vestual Virgin, others claiming fraud. I think we have been defrauded here. Last Dollar ought to be ashamed of himself. Is there some way to block his further pap? EDM

Let's not be too hasty to endeavor to block pap from this BB....it could completely ban some of the world's greatest experts from posting. (If I should have capitalized -World's Greatest Experts- please consider it done.)

Last Dollar, I am sorry that you never really got an accurate answer to your question. The fact about Damascus barreled guns is that they are truly dangerous to shoot. Even if you couldn't see any pits in the barrels, a small undetectable pit could be dangerous. So, as someone mentioned, having a gunsmith look at it wouldn't do any good and if he were any kind of a gunsmith, he would probably tell you not to buy or shoot the gun. On this board, we had one of the best damascus barrel experts by the name of Oscar Gaddy, before he passed away. Even he agreed with the fact that if you proof test a gun with damascus barrels, you could damage the gun to the point where it could blow up in your face. So damascus barreled guns are a no win situation. You could sleeve it or put Teague liners in it, but you wouldn't want to drag a club through the woods, now would you? This is the answer someone should have given you. I think some of them did...... Someone brought up the disorder of PMS. I guess the reason I have been single/divorced for the past twenty five years is because someone told me that the reason they named it PMS was because they had already given the term Mad Cow to another disease. Now I have this miserable disorder. And there is nothing I can do about it. So, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you, Last Dollar. Sincerely............Denny Crane.

So, Last Dollar, should we be leary of your future posts, assuming they, too, may be as your describe-----

" just wanted to see if you guys were on your toes, and to give some of the contributors? a chance to reach their pomposity and arrogance quotients"

Hardly the fellow friends , who were your hunters, describe. I'm puzzled.

"quotients"....Is that an insult ?

Good question, Daryl. I'm quite leary of many questioning posts and reply only with technical and historical answers until the questioner becomes "my best friend". Then I open up like a sinner on his deathbed.

Is it just me or are there others here who are finding it increasingly difficult to determine just who has their tongue in their cheek and who doesn't?

Bob:
I agree, for I have to agree. The last sentence in the Tolly thread was---
But, be it a chicken leg, a mutton leg or your leg---it has been pulled.
Hopefully such tongue in cheek passages are meant in fun. They usually turn out well if the admission to foolishness is the last sentence by the author.
Merry Christmas to all men of good will.
Best,
John

It appears that Mr Dollar is advertising his brand of hospitality for his B&B. Let's see a show of hands on how many now have plans to stop in.

I asked for permission to hunt and it was granted. I didn't know I would be charged for a room! I'd just as soon stay in town.

I see yOu've never been to Kansas...there are no towns and just a few brick streets.

As it has been said, "the debate was so vicious because so little was at stake".

Oh come on guys, lighten up! It's Christmas. And remember .....a tongue in the cheek is worth a push in the bush.... ....Oh-h-h-h-h-h-h...jingle bells.....jingle bells...............Denny Crane!!