I was at a friends house yesterday to shoot some clays and try out my Lefever FE 12 bore for the first time, on the first shot, the gun doubled. Some owner of this gun somewhere down the line had the rear trigger pull lightened and tuned to that of a match rifle. Not so much of a good thing when it comes to shotguns. So, we tore the gun down to see how much damage had actually occured and compared the inner workings to that of a non-ejector H, G, and to another FE and GE gun, we also thru a DS in there as well. Its amazing how all the different grades of guns had about the same amount of finish work applied to the guts...almost all of the guns had a crack in the stock somewhere in the head area or on the fragile stock horns that meet up with the back of the receiver. All the parts at a passing glance looked like they could be interechangeable...they're not. In fact, it was amazing at how some of the parts were differnt in each gun, things that look the same on the outside such as safety buttons and the safety shut off screw...triggers, etc. It was amazing looking and studying the simplicity of the inner workings.

Our workbench...we had all the right tools, not a screw was buggered and all guns went back together like they were taken apart...no gun was damaged in the filming of this caper.


non-ejector H grade, hammer cocked


non-ejector H grade with hammers dropped


FE grade with hammers cocked, rh side


FE grade with hammers cocked, LH side...this is the side that doubles, can you see the hammer & sear engagement notch?

I think your sear springs are in upside down on both guns.
Did you get the doubling fixed?
Chris

Hmmm. Thats the way every gun we took apart was...the long end of the spring went to the top, I'll check again to make sure...and yes, we did get the gun quit doubling, we scraped off some dried up crud off the hammer and sear notches and cleaned up some tiny imperfections on the metal with a small file...it doesn't double anymore, but the back trigger is still way too light for my liking.

I think the springs are in correct position.

Short sleeve's in Alaska in MARCH?

Chris is correct. The long end of the sear springs goes on the bottom. A close study of the sear top edge will show where the spring's bend should be, back further. That may well be how you found them but if so, they were assembled wrong previously. BTW, very good pictures. Thank you for sharing them with us.

The inards of a Lefever Automatic Hammerless are simple, but that also implies strength. After seeing that now I really want one and I guess all Lefevers no matter the grade received the same amount of internal polishing of the lock parts.
All the best

Take a look at this photo. See how the spring seats against the sear. It will not slide back and forth this way.

Chris

Thanks Chris, I flipped the springs right ways up on my FE...its unreal how many of these guns we took apart yesterday were set up the way I had my gun set up...I should've taken more pics. Does it really make a difference which way these springs are placed? I understand what your saying about the springs sliding back and forth, but we didn't seem to have that problem yesterday....and I cant tell any difference in function with the springs put in right side up. What gives?

I don't really know if it would cause a problem or not. I would guess that it would change the amount of downward pressure on the sear, especially if the spring is too far forward. Maybe the sear wouldn't engage the hammer competely.
Chris

More detailed photos than those in Elliott. Although I have two Lefevers, I've never had occasion to pull the sideplates so didn't realize exactly what cocked the indicators. The milled ramp on the hammer is quite obvious here as is its function. I believe I can make out the evidence of where the indicator piston has rested against the cocked hammer in the last photo. I hope you didn't do any mix-n-match on these guns; sounds as if custom-fitted parts would squawk a warning if you had.

jack

Dustin, The sear spring was binding on one of the H we fooled with yesterday remember? The top part was catching the sear and acting as a spring in reverse until I slid it forward. Maybe I only paid attention when we took your gun apart first although Im sure the H had the springs in that way too.

Jack, We were going to put the ejector hammer in from one of my beater GE guns but found that the hook held the ejector too long and nothing would function properly. Also tried to change out Dustins safety button but it was different as well. Ill bet the gunsmiths loved the new fangled repeaters just for the interchangeablity of parts!
Ross

Chris's observation is the correct one. If the springs are upside down, they will be too far forward and will exert less pressure on the sear.

I know most of the conversation has focussed on the sear springs, but doesn't it look like the sear engagement on the left hammer is "squared" off more than it should be? This would reduce the trigger pressure required to trip the sear. Might be just the lighting, but it looks that way to me.

Sharp eye, Roy. Wouldn't get any dwell or overdraw on that one; the sear would just slide off rather than snapping free.

jack

Not relevant to original post, but these pictures are so good; Note in the pic of NE H with hammers dropped. Pic is nearly square across face & no firing pins protrude. The main springs have bottomed out against there pocket in the frame & hammer is now "Loose". Inertia carries it on to fire the primer, but it is not held locked into the indent. Not really rebounding, but serves virtually the same purpose as far as opening the gun is concerned. Note also the distance the sear engages the hammer from it's axle. Extremely good leverage here. Since purchasing my first Lefever some 40 yrs ago I have never ceased to be amazed by the innovativeness of the Lefever design.
As to the reversed springs moving them back to their proper position should definitely put them under more compression, as the V gets wider the farther it goes from the bend, thus the more it is squezzed together.

Will putting the sear springs in correctly, and thus increasing the pressure, make the trigger pull greater? I mean, one would have to overcome the spring pressures as well as the sear release, right? Jake

Properly positioned springs will infact make the sear engagement better and likely help correct the light trigger pull you described.

Not to take anything away from the Lefever design but in the pics of the NE H, the internals may be square to the eye but it looks to me that the breech face is canted back. In the picture of the left side with the hammer dropped I can see the end of the pin.

Rob

That spring is upside down according to pictures the v slides back into that notch on top of the sear, however why would someone grind the notch on the hammer down to to make it shoot like a match rifle? Sounds to me that a previous owner didn't like the trigger pull and started hacking away at it, but unintentionally made it that light.
All the best

Rob;
I would guess the CL of the lens was a little to the rear of the breech face. You can see just a nub of the firing pin. It does not however have it's full protrusion as if the hammer were actually resting upon it under spring tension. Early models had two screws in the frame bottom which set the point where the spring stopped. Later ones are not adjustable, but all I have dealt with allowed the pins to come flush or just beyond. "NONE" have ever been plagued with firing pin drag upon opening.

Wish I could say that about some of my Ithacas.

Rob

I have only owned two lefevers, an H and a G, but I too am so impressed with their engineering, aesthetics, and function. Articles like this one only serve to make me miss them so much I think about selling my modern guns to make room for another.

Thanks a lot LeFusil

LeFusil and Chris, These are great photos and information. Do you mind if I use them in a future LACA newsletter?

I dont mind at all, have at it. :-)

Rich,
Go ahead and use my photo.
Chris

Chris,...nice gun!...is that a CE??

I have nice CE that was made in 1900 with fluid steel bbls, but I've had a problem with it,.. the hammers have developed some stress cracks and a couple of pieces have broken off, as a result I haven't been able to shoot it for a while.
I've tried looking for parts but had no luck,..I even talked to Buck Hamlin,he said it would be like looking for a needle in a hey stack so he suggested I tig weld them,..they lasted for a while and then broke again.
Few months ago when I had some time I decided I would make new hammers for it,...I starter but had to put it down to finish some other work,...it's still ongoing

Would you know of anyone that would have such parts??,...same vintage as your gun
Thanks

CJ

Claudio,
It is a CE. I sent you a PM.
Chris

LeFusil,

I'd like to give you credit for the photos in the Lefever Arms Collectors (LACA) newsletter, but don't know your name, other than LeFusil. If you'd like credit by name, I'd be more than happy to give it. RichardBrewster@nyc.rr.com

Dustin Maruquin is the name :-)