doublegunshop.com - home
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein AYA Matador question. - 03/25/08 09:45 PM
Question for the Spanish experts-were these blued frame guns?
Best,
Ted
Posted By: Chuck H Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/25/08 11:02 PM
Ted,
Every Matador I recall running across has been a blued frame.
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/25/08 11:20 PM
Chuck,
Gracias!
Best,
Ted
Posted By: Bill Davis Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/25/08 11:20 PM
Yep--all blue!
Posted By: L. Brown Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/26/08 11:35 AM
I've seen a bunch of them, all blued. AyA was making inexpensive sxs at that time with CC frames (like the 433, made for Sears, I picked up recently), but I can't recall ever seeing a CC or coin finished Matador.
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/27/08 02:47 AM
There seem to be a lot of these for sale. Assuming a double trigger, how do they stack up as rainy day/guest guns? The single trigger, by the way, is about the ugliest one I've seen welded onto a double gun, saving, perhaps, the new Smith and Wesson double. Did these guns come before, during, or after the Spanish got the reputation for soft steel? It seems like a Matador was an inexpensive gun, competing directly with the Sears version.
Best,
Ted
Posted By: L. Brown Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/27/08 01:29 PM
Ted, play with the SST on a Matador some time. Most of them have more creep than a "Friday the 13th" movie. Matador ran from the mid-50's to the mid-80's I think. The Model 433 (made for Sears) I have--soon to become "trade bait", although I think it's actually a pretty decent gun--dates from 1973, which must've been close to the time Sears stopped selling guns. I think the "soft steel" period was 60's, perhaps into 70's. But I also think AyA may have been less a victim of those problems than some of the other Spanish makers that have since disappeared. I'm sure that there are others here with more experience than I have with older, less expensive AyA's.
Posted By: eightbore Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/27/08 09:38 PM
Although the lightweight ten is not marked "Matador", as I remember it, I think it was marketed as a Matador. It has a lovely case hardened frame, the only Matador I remember having such a frame finish. I will give mine a look to see if it has any "Matador" marking.
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/29/08 05:24 PM
So, eightbore, was the lightweight ten a matador with a case colored frame?

Has anyone else put enough boxes of ammunition through one of these to draw a conclusion as to reliability? Not interested in the single trigger guns (which, most of them were) but the double trigger variety.

How about the ten gauges? They had heavy, magnum 10s as well. I would think problems might show up on these first, as opposed to smaller gauges.

Thanks in advance,
Best,
Ted
Posted By: eightbore Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/29/08 08:57 PM
Ted, my lightweight ten AYA is sure enough not marked "Matador" anywhere on it but they were marketed in the Matador era. They are a wonderful, good looking, good handling ejector gun and are full 3 1/2" chambered magnums. Thankfully, they are double trigger guns. They are just lighter than the blue frame tens. When I have a chance, I will try to find out when they were sold and how they were described. They are well fitted, mine is not broken in, still drags on the hinge, so long term reliability should not be a problem. My Dad's 12 gauge Matador broke in fairly early but never developed any sign of looseness.
Posted By: Fauquier Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/30/08 12:50 AM
I used a Matador II, 12ga.w/26" barrels,choked IC/M,single selective trigger,for several years.It had a case-colored receiver,the case soon wore off at the carry point.It was a very good field gun,no problems,nice patterns right on point of aim. I gave it to a relative because the stock was a bit straight,and had significant cast-off (a problem for a lefty).A good Matador II that fits you will do well in the field.

A better choice for a little more $ is an Ithaca/SKB 200e.
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/31/08 12:14 AM
This outfit made some solid shooters. I have looked over couple of them BLs with Purdey double under bites, Greener X-bolt and chromed frames. I might still pick up that one with st. grip sling swivels, luvly Anson latch and gold lion und AYA logo on the lever. It's marked Fab (Factory) Aguirre Y Aranzabal plus some Swedish gibberish on the other tube, proly built toughter then brick shithouse! I could pick one of ther DDR Suhl guns in excellent shape for $1200 to $1300, but why not save cool $400 and get something better lookin (ya know, that from Birmingham look). Maaan, I'm tired of fugly German guns.
Posted By: Ironman5 Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/31/08 11:40 AM
My 10b Aya is a Matador. 3-1/2" chambers, blued frame and tight, tight, tight. I only shoot 20-25 shots per year throught it though. Mine has the gold lion under the name and some of the finest checkering I've seen on any gun. The barrels also have a bevel like none I've ever seen. How do you tell if it's a "lightweight 10 Aya"?
Posted By: eightbore Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/31/08 01:49 PM
Put it on a scale, read the dial. My case colored 1966 manufactured ten weighs 9 pounds, 10 ounces, what I regard as a "lightweight" compared to the near 12 pounds of some sixties vintage Spanish ten magnums meant for the US market. The Gun Digest of the time does not mention any ten other than the blue frame Matador. The Blue Book says the Matador was discontinued in 1963 and does not mention any ten gauge after the original Matador. They state that the vent rib Matador ll was only available in 12 and 20. My gun and the many others I've seen identical to it have Firearms International markings so are obviously intended for the US market and do exist, regardless of the thin information provided by the Blue Book. My Firearms International research material is a little light, so I have no more answers. It is amazing to me that the Gun Digest, that included mention of FI imported AYA guns all through this period, never mentions the case colored lightweight ten, nor does the Blue Book. I guess the real story is that the gun was probably offered for only a short time, then discontinued. Since all I have seen have been in the Washington, DC area, it could have been a prototype, distributed in very small quantities through the FI headquarters just south of DC in Maryland. Maybe it was never catalogued. It is the best ten gauge for the price that I have ever owned, and I've owned a bunch. Now that I realize how obscure this gun is, I will be on the lookout for another.
Posted By: eightbore Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/31/08 01:58 PM
Ironman, could you possibly weigh your blue frame Matador ten so we can compare the two models? As I stated earlier, my case colored 1966 ten weighs 9 pounds, 10 ounces empty.
Posted By: Jacob Jesus Escape' Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/31/08 02:04 PM
My old Matador 10ga weighs under 10#, also. I think its frame was originally case colored. It's seen a lot of use and the action is still plenty tight. I bought it cheap ($250) since it had a cracked butt but my repair seems to be holding.

I sometimes wonder why these old Spanish 10s aren't used with chamber inserts by people seeking SxS target guns. Too uncool? Illegal?
Posted By: eightbore Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/31/08 02:16 PM
In my case, the AYA is a little thick in the grip and forend to make a good target gun. A good 12 gauge target gun would be more useful at about 8 to 8 1/2 pounds and lean at the grips.
Posted By: Mike Armstrong Re: AYA Matador question. - 03/31/08 04:50 PM
Jagermeister, I had an AyA just like the one you describe (a 16). Well used with importer markings from a large Swedish sporting goods store in central Sweden (which apparently still exists). Made in 1962, according to the date-of-proof code. Traded it off after one upland season (to a gunsmith for work on one of my other clunkers). There's a discussion board for Swedish civilian arms on http://www.gunboards.com which is a good source for info on things Swedish,even when they're Spanish, in case you aren't familiar with it (which you probably are).
Posted By: Rabbit Ears Re: AYA Matador question. - 04/01/08 03:35 AM
I purchased an Aya Matedore from Milt Kline years ago. It was a pretty gun, but made of very soft steel. It had a single slective trigger and ejectors. After firing three rounds it began to double. I sent it to Micro Gunsight Co. to be fixed. The same thing occured three times. I fnally gave up and sent it back to Milt Kline and he sent me a new one with a case hardened frame. One could see daylight between the back of the barrels and the frame. I gat a refund and bought a Chalrles Daly model 500 made by Miriku and never had any trouble. I used it for water fowl and upland game birds for years. My advise is not to purchase any Aya Matadore guns fron the 1960's.
Posted By: eightbore Re: AYA Matador question. - 04/01/08 12:13 PM
Rabbit Ears is painting Matadors with a pretty broad brush, especially after ownership of one gun that failed after three shots. That would not indicate soft steel, it would indicate defective assembly. Even soft steel lasts more than three shots. Milt (Klein) may have imported guns that were way less than the normal quality for U.S. AYA imports. Every Matador I have examined, that would be many, have been tight on the face. "Light between the back of the barrels and the frame." would seem to be a bit of an exaggeration, at least in my experience with Matadors.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: AYA Matador question. - 04/01/08 12:50 PM
I haven't had any "performance" issues with the 2 or 3 I've owned, and I felt fit and finish were appropriate for a gun of that price range. However, I will say that just about every Matador on which I've tried the SST has had a pretty creepy trigger. That may be less important to scattergunners than riflemen, but that trigger is the one feature that causes me to avoid Matadors.
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: AYA Matador question. - 04/01/08 02:05 PM
Avoiding trouble with ANY double gun can often be as simple as avoiding ejectors and single triggers. Thanks for the commentary, gentleman.
Best,
Ted
Posted By: eightbore Re: AYA Matador question. - 04/01/08 03:21 PM
I agree with Ted on the two features that commonly cause trouble on cheap guns. My Dad's 1960 12 gauge Matador did have a creepy trigger and developed problems after I sold it. However, the buyer went "inside" and got him working after a couple of unsuccessful attempts. I will not have a SST Matador, my big ten being a reliable double trigger ejector gun.
© The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com