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Posted By: Yogi 000 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/11/08 02:35 PM
Well, after waiting over a year I received my double barrel 50-90 rifle built on an older Gerr Merkel Suhl 12 gauge double. I wanted a very short, heavy brush/bush gun; a stopper gun in 50 caliber... AND I wanted a double rifle side by side I could load down to put holes in paper or in whitetail deer. I aslo wanted a gun that was affordable and one I would not cry when it got scratched.

I commissioned Jason Simpkins to do the work.

When I opened the gun case these were my first impressions:

I love the metal on this gun and the wood is so much better than ANY new double rifle I have seen. Indeed, I feel like they do NOT make guns like they used to and the old Merkels were superb. The cheek piece is great and the gun is simply remarkably handsome.

The express sites he put on this gun are beautiful and seem to work well. The gun goes "right there" when I raise it up.

The gun has a short 20 inch barrel. Pacnor tubes were sleeved in the 12 gauge Merkel barrels. This double rifle is just shy of nine pounds. The gun has surprisingly great balance and I really like the short barrels. This gun will carry great in the woods. The gun has great finished lines and form. It is short and that is exactly what I wanted and it could not look any better in my eyes.

So I wrapped her up and drove her home. Although it was getting dark, I had to shoot some rounds through it when I got home last night with the gun which had been shipped to my FFL.

From standing field position:

I shot four 300 grain Barnes Flat nosed ahead of 42 grains of 5744 Powder.

I then shot four Woodleigh 535 grain round nosed ahead of 60 grains of Reloder15.

I then shot four more Woodleigh 535 grainers ahead of 76 grains of Reloder15.

The 300 Grain Barnes loads felt like a 308! The lighter powdered 535 Woodleighs felt like 2 and 3/4 slugs and the heavily loaded Woodleighs felt like SST Magnum slugs, however the abusive recoil that many told me to expect just wasn't there. The gun had a butt plate and NO recoil pad. I am ecstatic with these recoil results.

The gun was hard to open after each of the heavily loaded Woodleighs, however... It was dim light and I did not have my closeup glasses on so I could not inspect the primers or determine what was making it so hard to open the gun after each of the four heavily powdered woodleighs, but I hope to make that determination soon. Any ideas would be appreciated. I could NOT see anything, but with my eyes NOT in I cannot say more. The lever moved to the side easily but the gun was just very hard to crack open, once I was able to get it to BEGIN to open then it opened the rest of the way easier. The shells extracted very easily each time once I got her open. I used Starline Brass and annealed each one.

The lighter loads presented no issues at all and extracted great!

In the dim light I was able to put all 12 rounds I shot from a standing psoition to within a couple of inches at 25 meters. Not bad at all because I wasn't really trying. I mostly just wanted to shoot it and see how I liked the feel of it.

I want this gun as a stopper gun so mostly 0-50 meter use and for deer hunting on terrain that will be heavily wooded so 20 to 75 meters. The gunsmith sent me the target at 75 yards and he had 2 inch groups with these sights. I would be very happy with that.

Although I have the one issue with difficulty breaking the gun open with heavy loads it may just be my shells or primer seating, of course it could be something worse... But my first impression is very positive. I think Jason Simpkins did a good job. The jury is still out, but first impressions are this gun could become my favorite. I will try to gte some photos and email them to someone else to post since I lack the software.

I started out with a poor mans' double: a double barrel smooth 12 gauge slug gun made in italy that shoots Brenneke's well. It worked for a brief time, yet what I really wanted was a shorter big caliber double rifle. But I simply could not and cannot justify the pricing of them, so this was an alternate route. It is not for the purist perchance, but it certainly makes me happy. For now.

Thanks for putting up with my lower cost approach to life.
Posted By: Rocketman Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/11/08 02:45 PM
I'd look very closely at the heavy loads for primer extrusion or firing pin drag. It may be that you will need to keep load pressures a bit lower that the top load listed. If this gun has rebounding locks, and I think it does, the firing pins may not have enough inertia to keep the primer out of the firing pin hole.

Keep us posted, this is a most interesting issue.

Congrats on the gun! Sounds like a fine project. Yes, photos, please. Email to me and I'll post if need be.
Posted By: James M Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/11/08 03:26 PM
Yogi:
Keep in mind that this is STILL a shotgun in design and strength. I too would recommend backing off from those heavy loads.
Jim
Posted By: BrentD, Prof Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/11/08 03:32 PM
I'm curious about the barrel twist rates that you use. For what length/weight bullet are they optimized?

Sure sounds like a winner. Pictures would really be appreciated.

And, if you are sure you don't mind, some rough costs might be helpful to those of us that have dreamed or even seriously contemplated about contemplating doing this this... Someday.

Brent
Posted By: Yogi 000 Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/11/08 05:40 PM
Guys. The barrels are 1 in 15 twist. I know that sounds fast but THAT is what Jason recommended and has used in the past with excellent results. I do know that all loads went in perfectly straight. And those Woodleigh 535 grainers are long bullets so if they began to go a skew; ie key holed, you would see it. Jason said they are optimized for the Woodleigh 535 grainers.

The action that Merkel uses for their 500 is supposedly the same as their 16 gauge so the 12 gauge is even beefier. However, I hear you all about keeping pressures low. I intend to load my next batch at 70 grains and 57 grains, and I will ensure I size the brass all the way DOWN.

Cost was many thousands less than a Merkel double rifle in similar caliber (50) that I have seen for $12K and up. Way up.

I am psyched. The gun is beautiful.
Gentlemens:

It seems to me that submitting a post like this without pictures is yet another sound reason for reinstating capitol punishment...

Glenn
Posted By: Yogi 000 Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/11/08 08:58 PM
Sorry guys. Work is very challenging right now. I have four photos. Who can I email them to so you can post them here???
Posted By: J.B. Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/11/08 09:07 PM
I would be happy to put them up for you. My email is in my profile. JB-
Posted By: Yogi 000 Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/11/08 09:24 PM
JB---I emailed you four photos compressed in JPG format. Thank you!
Posted By: Marc Stokeld Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/11/08 10:01 PM
THe first thing in my mind was, "I can't believe the man posted this description and teased us, but refused to show us pics!!!" But others have chimed in already.

Did he bush the firing pins and make smaller rifle pins? If not, that could be part of your stiffy problem. The big shotgun pins have big holes in the breach face and the higher pressure could have extruded the rifle primers into the firing pin holes a good bit. Just something to look at anyway. At any rate, I would definitely want bushed pins on the gun.

Has this smith chambered doubles in this caliber before? Just curious about how the reamer was ground. Many reamer makers grind reamers to minimum tolerance for accuracy's sake. But with the weaker extraction of the double a tight chamber could stiffen things up until the fired case let go of the walls. But if this guy has used the reamer on other doubles then he would know how it was working. You asked fo rideas, so there are a couple of half-baked ones. Plus I guess naything a .50-90 would be chambered in would have weak extraction anyway.

Can't wait to see your pics!!!

Oh, one more thing. You mentioned "stopper" several times, but always talked about shooting deer. Is this a deer stopping rifle like for tracking wounded ones that often jump up and run through thick stuff, or did you build it in case you hunt really big stuff one day? Just curious.
Posted By: J.B. Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/11/08 10:24 PM
Very nice!!!






Posted By: Yogi 000 Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/11/08 10:25 PM
Stopper gun AND a deer gun. I have the option to load it either way. Just from my first trial with 3 different loads I found this gun can be used for very light "work" or heavy "work".

Stopper refers to use against Dangerous Game.

I find a short 20 inch barreled gun is just ideal for heavy brush... and a double side by side is simply my favorite and yes i think the most pragmatic. Bang. Bang. Could be loaded heavy for grizzly or wild bore, or loaded way down for white tail.

And yes if I ever get to africa or some other destination for dangerous game I have a doubel rifle that can be used too. I gues sthe term stopper simply means it can be used to stop a charge: a 535 grain Woodleigh round nosed at about 2,000 fps packs a heck of a wallop. So that is what I mean by stopper gun... only when it is laoded UP. Otherwise it is just a practical side by side that happens to be a 50 cal and can shoot pretty well out to 75 yards.
Posted By: montenegrin Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/11/08 10:33 PM
Very nice indeed!
Posted By: James M Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/11/08 11:52 PM
Yogi:
I have a couple of questions. How did the builder regulate this gun when he built it? Since double rifles are usually regulated for one specific load how are you maintaining accuracy with all the different loads you cited above? I'm NOT being critical here but I'm really interested in how this is being done.
BTW: That is truly a beautiful looking gun.
Jim
Posted By: BrentD, Prof Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/12/08 12:44 AM
Sweet sweet sweet!

It looks like the barrels are simply relined from front to back. Is that what he did in the original shotgun barrels?

Do you know how he regulated it?

Way cool,

Now, git to Africa and bring back more pictures!!!

Brent
Congratulations - that's realy quite nice!

As for regultion - I'd be willing to bet that the liners are slightly eccentric - this way one could rotate them in the barrels until the desirable POI was reached, and then fix'em in permanently.
Posted By: keith Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/12/08 04:47 AM
Would it be correct to assume this or any other conversion action could withstand the same force that the original cartridge generated, even though the new cartridges' working pressure may be greater? Force = pressure x area, and the base of a 12 ga. shell at say 10,000psi is much larger than the area of the base of the .50-90, so I'm asking if the ratio of the areas would be a means of calculating a safe working pressure in the conversion. I'm sure there are probably other factors to consider, and I also wondered about the need for smaller bushed firing pins. Excess headspace will also allow the unsupported primer to back out and flatten.
Posted By: Yogi 000 Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/15/08 03:14 AM
Sorry, been traveling on Business...

Wow, alot of good questions. I don't think I can answer them all. For example---how did my gunsmith regulate this double.... hmmmm, I'd have to reply: like anyone regulates a double. Setting the barrels to where your years of experience tell you you should set them, soldereing them in, and going to the range and shooting it with various approx. powder charges of a desired load, trying to get them to hit poi at a certain distance. Correcting when it is not perfect and then resoldering and shooting again... In this case it was 75 yards. The bullet was a 535 Woodleigh. The charge hew as going for was somewhere between 70 and 82 grains of Reloader15. It took him about 9 months to get it where he thought it was right and the targests he sent me had a less than 2 inch spread for both barrels at 75 yards and with that accuracy---I am quite happy.

He has made several 50-90 double guns so he knew where to start, and he has built other large caliber double conversion guns as well.

Also, I strongly believe it is a myth to say a double is only capable of shooting ONE load accurately. As Graeme Wright related in his famous book "Shooting a Britsh Double" --- 'it is incorrect to think a double can only be regulated to one bullet and one load'... with experimentation you can find more. I think you are only limited by your patience and your fortitude... and support from the double gun gods.... As someome who used to formulate epoxies I can tell you the variables are endless and you can get to the same point many ways... The same holds true, I contend, with getting a double to shoot various bullet weights and bullet designs using various types of powders and various weights to hit at POI at your regulation distance. Heck, my first try and I had 3 different loads (2 different bullets/ two different powders) hitting within a couple of inches of the bullseye and I was shooting standing and shooting in very low light! 12 shots of all three loads would have taken down whatever I was aiming at. But the point is, and I am hardly the first to discover it---I double can shoot more than one bullet ie one load to POI. Is the factory (or gunsmith/builder) responsible for doing more than ONE? No, it is customary to do one.... but the owner of the gun can find the other happy loads.

Let's face it, even if the factory regulates a gun with a certain load but you take that gun/load to Africa or other locale with very different temp/humidty the gun/load combination can shoot off, ie no longer regulated ... and thus you need to find a NEW load that is regulated to THAT climate, and you can!...

The way I see it is I have at least 7 different candidate bullets and at least 5 different powders and yes that means quite a number of combinations and opportunities to find loads that hit to POI with both barrels at 50 yards. (which is where I regulate to).

Working pressures --- If memory serves me I think I am shooting in the 20,000-23,000 PSI range with the loads I have worked up. And this is well within the capability of this beefy Merkel with beefy Pacnor barrels within the 12 gauge tubes. I understand the Merkel 500 Nitro Express is built on their 16 gauge: this is what I was told. If thi IS true, this supports the notion Merkel shotguns are strong enough for conversions.

Yet bear in mind with the 50-90 loads I'm working with, these are more like a Light Nitro. I am not in the pressures ranges of the 500 Nitro Express.

And regarding the area of the base---The way I see it is the chamber has been reamed out of the 50 caliber barrels for the flanged 50-90 cartridge it is not the area of a 12 gauge. The 50 cal barrels are within the 12 gauge tubes.
Posted By: 2-piper Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/15/08 12:40 PM
One thing which I have always wondered about, so this seems like a good place to ask. This would of course depend upon the actual model of gun in question, but many doubles over the years have been built with the same bar for different gauges, only the height & width of the standing breech & spacing of the firing pins being changed to accomodate the different sizes. If this be the case would not a gun built on a 16ga be stronger than one built on a 12ga as the leverage applied to the breech would be lower? If this is a model in which the entire frame is slimmed down for the smaller gauge this would of course not be true.
Posted By: dogdigger Re: 50-90 Converted Merkel Side By Side - 04/15/08 01:09 PM
Yogi 000,
Very cool rifle, can you share what year the merkel was manufactured? Thanks.
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