Hi Gang:

There must be a time when the grain in a gunstock is just too fancy to be attractive. Like many other things in life one must know when to stop adding frills to an item. This could be a car, a house, a woman or engraving on a gun. There is a fine line between just enough and too much in any art form. I wood on E Bay that is just too well figured to hold my attention. I did find the gun that HackCW showed us was very well figured without being over the top. I have seen this happen at the local trap club with restocked guns.

Do you people have any comments on when a stock has too much grain figure to be attractive? How about a few pictures of gaudy wood grain if you can come up with an example.

TIA,

Franchi

I can't have too much health.

My wife can't be too sweet.

My birddogs can't be too good.

My shooting can't be too good.

Beautfiul wood on my shotgun can't be too good, unless it is too weak to serve it's purpose.

My opinion.

Best,

Mike

It's all relative. What one calls gaudy one will say it's exhibition. Who's prettier a blond or a redhead?

As always it's just personal preference but to me while I have seen several examples of engraving that is too gaudy IMHO, I have yet to see a stock on a gun that would strike me the same way.

Franchi; I think when you say the words ART FORM that the only boundries is our own personal taste. There are many forms or artwork I find distasteful, wood on a gun is not one of them. Oh we all see some spectacular wood on those lowly field grades but if I had only one gun and wanted the best wood I could get on it I would be one of those guys.
I wish I could post a picture of wood that was too nice for a gun but I can't. It would be hard for a guy to spend the money on wood and a restock to end up saying [What was I thinking]? All this is said in good humor
Tom

Maybe what you're really saying is that it appears too gaudy to you if it is obviously in a much higher class than the gun itself? Or do you think a really finely made and engraved gun can still have wood over the top?

Share any pictures that you might have where you think this might apply.

It's like a girl too pretty.

You can hardly tell there is checkering. That is beautiful.

That's too much for me, Chuck. Now, if the wood were a little darker and there wasn't so much contrast between the two colors, it might be OK. For me, it also has to do with the way the grian runs. If it all runs the same way like a Zebra all throughout the intire gun, I might have a little bit of a problem with that, too. I would rather see a dark stock with very little grian, than one that is blond colored that has the grain sticking out like a sore thumb. The buttstock isn't too bad, but the forearm is a little too much.

Too much!

I think wood can be too gaudy. To my eye, this is the case with most of the wood you're seeing on nicer guns.

I think part of the problem is the absence of true French walnut. That Turkish stuff is just too cakey. It doesn't look right and I dislike its yellowish hue.

I think a gun's beauty is a sum of its parts. When any one part grabs all the attention - from the engraving on the action to the wood - it's too much.

Elegance is what I appreciate. A lot of what I see today is the gun equivalent of a Rolex Presidential - not me at all.

OWD

Chuck, your gun is lovely. While it is not exactly my favorite "look" it is definitely not over the top to me. I prefer a bit darker with marble cake grain or crotch grain feathering...but that is just me. I truly don't think I can say that I have ever seen wood that is TOO MUCH, but I definitely have seen engraving that is too much, for me that is. Lovely wood is wonderful and when on a good double gun it is even more so. Of course, that is just MY opinion. To each their own.

I am a total wood guy myself.(pull your head out of the gutter!) But like Franchi, I believe like anything, a gunstock can be stocked over the top. Someone trying too hard. Maybe it is a total taste thing, but sometimes, not often mind you, but sometimes, the gun just does not look like I think it should look.

Start sending me photos with quotes on those guns you own that are stocked over the top, just make sure you deduct heavily for that exhibition wood in your quotes.

Too gaudy? Only on the other guy's gun. If it were on mine I'd try to tolerate it. But some chunks of firewood and some human craft and artistry do look "better" than others in that everything fits together and nothing takes over or fixes the eye in one place. A pretty blond with raccoon eye makeup looks like a raccoon.

jack

Hi all, IMHO...Never!! I love nice wood, even in the duck blind. Wood to me is just as important as nice engraving and polished bluing. To my eyes, a work of art with function.

All the best!!

Greg

Over the top is any exibition stock on a field grade gun with little finish left. I saw what had to be a thousand dollar blank years ago on a beat to death 311. Gun looked worse for the fancy wood. Problem was that I could not figure out how to save the stock for a better gun. This was a marble cake, English blank, with all the color and fiddle you could pour into a blank. It would have been home on the finest Lefever Optimus gun. It looked way over the top on the 311.

Chuck, i really like all that contrast in your wood! Bobby

This discussion seems somewhat like a married man complaining about his wife wanting sex too often.....

If anyone has a wife with that problem that they are also complaining about send me a picture and price on her as well.

Jimmy,
The lighting in a photo of figured woods really changes what you see. The earlier post of that gun were with a bounced flash off the wall/ceiling. Even with the bounced flash, the lighting is intense and the camera computer balances the overall exposure based on a lot of things.

I've made a good attempt to replicate what I see in person, albeit even that changes substantially depending on lighting conditions. But this pic was shot a few minutes ago on my patio under a shade. The pic was then adjusted in Adobe for brightness and contrast just a little to show my skintone correctly. Not a lot of correction was required but just a bit to get it "real" looking. Still looks a bit contrasty to me, but close enough for gov't work.

They ain't made the wood that's too gaudy.

Chuck; That is really nice, I hope that last 100 more years

Engraving and gold inlays yes some of that can be over the top and way too gaudy. Wood......NEVER!!!

Wood can be too gaudy, just like if you have too many gold teeth with inset diamonds it can start to be gaudy.

The worst wood I've ever seen was in Shooting Sportsman a couple years ago, some guy (hope he's not a member here) had some blanks that he had owned for years and finally had an expensive matched pair of Italian O/U's made up with. Flew to Italy to the factory, the whole bit. Very light wood with tons of curly figure. Just atrocious.

I've always figured if Chevy Chase in 'Vacation' had bought a pair of shotguns to match his custom station wagon, those woulda been the ones.

Some of the people on this thread must be driving those brown Corvettes that I pass.

Chuck, I like the wood in your Fox. Looks " how it should look " to me.

Tim

Wood must be handsome, but understated and subtle.
Too much, is too much.
Best wood, always looks better on a Sle best gun for some reason.
Gotta keep the whole thing in balance don't you know.

Chuck:

I think the wood is beautiful. I have a lot of customers that would want even more contrast than your wood shows, particularly Krieghoff guys.

A custom stock is built to the exact specifications of the customer. If someone doesn't like your choice of wood, you should be no more ofended than if they picked your gun up and said "This gun is too long for me."

It wasn't built for them, it was built for you.

Check out some of those Italian makers like FAMARS,.... they're the worst offenders. The wood on some of their guns looks like slab of South African marble. Definitely in "male gigolo" category!
PS. Also check out high grade Blaser arms. They are worse then Italians as their entire guns (lock, stock and barrel) are fit only for male gigs. They came out with special edition? R93 chambered for African cartridge and called it 'Selous'. That gun is named after famous English hunter killed by a GERMAN SNIPER. How stupid is that concept?

Hey Guys,

Frequent lurker, seldom posting. What do you mean by "marble cake".

Thanks,

No stock is over the top for my eye. I love honey and smoke even in its lighter forms.The wood must be strong and the grain correct but all is fair after that.I even love birds eye maple.

IMO: The stock on the first gun posted in this thread falls into the "marble cake" category. The name comes from an actual cake that is baked having contrasting light and dark swirls.
Jim

Here's a couple of photos of a trap stock that I did kinda sorta under duress. I don't have any completed pics but you can get a pretty good idea of what marble cake turkish looks like.

Did you respect yourself in the morning?

Glenn

What caliber pistol did the client hold to your head? regards and beautiful work on that stock. It might grow on you.

You can't have wood that is over the top, IMHO. I LOVE Baroque architecture and art, so I say,"Bring on the wood porn".

P.S. Chuck do you know anyway of adherening diamond dust onto barrels?:)

Barely!

But when one of my best buds is having warthogs & meerkats engraved on his rifle and I think its a great idea, its easy to find that my sense of good taste in fine guns has gone right down the pooper.

BTW, shouldn't you be loading bullets for Raton or something constructive????????

Yeah, baby!! I like those last pictures a lot better, Chuck. There isn't so much contrast in the different colors. Now that is nice. I guess I just like darker wood on a gun more than lighter wood. But that is just my opinion. To each his own. I am the type of person who likes a small cherry table with no grain at all.

Jimmy could your dislike of great wood come from the fact you like mod.21's. Just kidding good friend
God Bless

"When is wood too gaudy for a stock?"
That's like asking when is ones lady is too busty.....

NEVER!!!!!!!!!!! Grant.

IMHO, I think it's important that the wood match the gun. I don't want to see highly figured wood on an old plain jane field grade gun. It would be like putting Eva Longoria's beautiful face on Rosie O'Donnell's body. What a waste! Sorry if I made anyone sick with that comparison. I was only trying to use an extreme example to make my point.

I've had these pics posted before, but here they are again as an example of wood matching the gun, again IMHO.

http://groups.msn.com/Herbicide/shoebox.msnw?Page=3

Deleted

Now that Amigo Will brought up the Model 21 how about some pictures!!!!!

Doug, is this the one that you forwrded to me for scratching ? ken

I don't ever recall seeing a gun with too nice wood on it. However, I have run across many a 60's 70's nouveau-esk overstyled stocks like the one below. For some reason this styling with hugely flared gripcaps and butts with overly curved rollover cheekrests was the rage. Hideous looking to me.

I'm thinking of the Spanish Mauser 7 m/m that I bought at a flea market last summer for $50.00. The wood, after cleaning and dent raising, is easily the equal of the Fox shown here, and it shows a fair amount of fiddleback. Beleive me, I looked and measured to see if I could find enough wood in that stock to use on a better gun. No dice, so it will be one very pretty-rainy-day-loan-it-to-your-brother-in-law-spare-rifle. Hopefully some soldier got some pleasure from looking at it between battles.

I'm one of those driving the Corvette, mike, but it is red. And I doubt that you are passing me.

If all my guns and rifles had wood like this Alex. Henry rifle I would be delighted:





My apologies for the rifle insurgency!

Curl

Godd on ya, Jimmy! ( maybe I'll pass ya goin' the other way? )

Curl,

That wood looks exactly like the stocks on the very highest grade Foxes that were made. English walnut like Chuck's (my personal favorite, too) is supposedly becoming scarcer and more pricey since it comes from very old, gnarly trees that are disappearing and not being replaced. Seems reasonable then that it would have been somewhat more common 100 years ago, and it should have been radily available to someone ordering a a high-end double. But it seems more in vogue for modern upgrades. As much as I like Chuck's stock, it wouldn't be taken for original on an early FE grade.

CptCurl,
That is one delicious A.H. rifle. How about posting more pictures of the complete gun...they would be greatly appreciated...thanks.

Mike,
Darkness of Curl's stock pic aside, you make a good point. You don't see big bold mineral lines in most of the old Fox stocks. I wonder if it was a taste thing of that era or the wood wasn't sourced from CA or other places with such figure? The darkness of most of the wood of that era(not necessarily Curl's) I attribute to stain, oil, dirt and darkened finish on many older guns we see (mine has a crystal clear finish with no color or stains.) We often see some restorations here that bear this out when finishes are removed and oil leached out. But even after all that, my experience has been that not all of the surface darkening is completely cleared.

I wonder if the more subtle mineral figure is a carryover from the Best guns of London of that era? It seems to me that London guns didn't start using the really heavily mineral line wood until lately?

Possibly, Researcher has some info on the wood sourcing.

Understated opulence - vs - the hey look at me wood.
The old London gunmakers understood the art of wood and metal.
One didn't out do the other.

Chuck, That is an "Anton" stock. His distinguishing marks were the exaggerated rollover comb and the rosewood inlaid grip cap. They are somewhat of a collector item since Anton is now gone.

I sort of inherited one of these in a left hand stock on a Perazzi I bought that had belonged to a dear and deceased left handed friend. I got the gun from the simple estate. He died with little and no real family. The stock shoots very well on a trap gun. In fact, I have become quite fond of it. Mine has pretty fancy claro which I have seen on other Antons. But, you sure would not want it on a classic double or any such gun. Regards, Craig

Mike,

Your comment illustrates one of the attractions of antique doubles. Where could one find a blank like the one on my Henry, and what would it cost in today's dollars?



BTW the Henry was proofed pre-1887.

Curl

Curl,
Finding a particular style of figure and color for someone is like trying to buy your wife a dress. You need to do the legwork (keyboard and mousework these days) yourself as nobody else can put their finger on it.

Search for Turkish, French, English gunstock blanks. The usual suspects are Hunterbid.com, Dressels, Luxus, Denli, Oldtreeblanks.com, Cecil Fredi, etc.

I know there are some that will disagree here, but I bet your stock is naturally much much lighter colored, . There is definitely oil that has darkened, probably alkanet root stain, and some dirt, on the wood. My point is, just keep that in mind when looking at woodblanks. Look for structural alignment of grain in critical areas, figure of your taste, then color last.

A couple of stocks I have seen that look nice but out of place on a shooting gun were a couple of Winchester L/A's with Ivory stocks.

Curl, Would you say this looks like that on your double?

Or the wood on this one?


Or this one?

I think Fox had a nice balance in wood used, from left to right A,B,C,X grades.

Here's another gaudy one to gawk at, this from an 1850's Deane Adam & Deane.

Sharpsrifle,

Thanks for your comments. Here is an array of photos of the A. Henry:

A. Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE


Curl

SDH-MT,

That's a whale of a nice piece of wood, and I am sure the workmanship impeccable!

Yours has some fiddleback, which the A. Henry does not have. I think the Henry has more marblecake figure. But how can I answer that question? You are the expert. I am the student.

Best,
Curl

Chuck H,

I agree entirely with your comment about color.

To my eye an antique like my Henry looks odd when totally refinished and the wood cleaned, lightened, and finished with a clear oil or varnish.

Yet I wonder what this rifle looked like the day it was delivered. I feel sure it had some red stain. I would also imagine its finish was somewhat lighter and more clear.

So in the end, when we shy away from an antique with brightly refinished wood are we shying away from the original presentation of the gun? Ironic?

Just some thoughts. Comments of others would be interesting.

Curl

Curl,
To my eye, I think a 'gray gun' looks odd with the wood stipped, and leached of aged colors. On the other hand, refinished metals with old finish wood still looks o.k. to me. But, a new or freshly refinish stock should get refinished metal to match, to my taste anyway. I recently had to make that call on a Fox that I was having restocked. The craftsman doing the work said he'd recommend refinishing the metal at the same time. I agreed and it came out nice. The picture of that gun is the one I posted in this thread earlier.

I have a friend who right now is buying a vintage pinfire Purdey double rifle. The stock has been stripped, with new finish applied. The metal is not refinished. The question is, what can he do to put finish on the wood to make it look old again? Hopefully somebody will be able to help him. CC, you listening????

Curl