The ACGG bench:
Jerry Fisher
One of the nice things about living in Montana’s Flathead valley is the fine American Custom Gunmakers Guild talent we have in the area. Monte Mandarino up in Whitefish, Lee Helgeland in Many Lakes, and here in Ferndale, outside of Bigfork is Jerry Fisher.
I stopped by his shop this afternoon to say hello and he showed me a really nice piece of work on his bench.
Jerry described the rifle to me as follows:
“It’s a Mannlicher stocked Mauser in 7x57, with some improvements”.
It has an Island sight, Schnabel forend tip and heel and toe plates”
I asked him about the nicely figured stick of wood.
“That’s a piece of thin shell Walnut, grown in Oregon. I have had it about twenty years, an extremely good piece of wood”.
I asked him what was to be done next.
“Indexing and finishing off the screws”.
He then told me-
“I will have about four hundred hours in it by the time I am done, and I don’t know when that will be. I usually have two or three going at the same time, and today for instance, I was working on scrapers”.
Myself, being an ACGG Engraver, was curious if the rifle would have any ornamentation before finishing.
“Well, I think its going to Eric Gold, but that’s a ways off yet”.
What a nice project this will be, I told him I hope I can see it when it is completed.
As I drove back to my studio, I reflected on the fine craftsmen in this valley, and the other ACGG members spread all across the USA.
It’s a great time to be a member of ACGG.

Barry-

Thanks for taking us along for the ride!



--Tinker

I have seen Bro. Fisher's work before, always first class! Always enjoy your photo sessions, Barry Lee, thanks.

Jerry does beautiful work.

I think the heal and toe clips are alittle much on a classic rifle like that....I don't care for the midway Schnabel....or that the barrel extends past the end of the stock.
To me both are an eye sore on a Mannlicher stocked rifle.

Post deleted by Run With The Fox

hehe, Its good to see a diversity of opinion. Thanks for the input , custom guns would not be any fun at all if we did not have our preferences. Lets hear some more comments if you have em gentleman.

It's my understanding, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, that the Mannlicher style of stock was designed so there would be more meat to grab at the muzzle end if the rifle had to be used as a staff for climbing or traversing rough terrain.

If this is indeed the case, heel and toe clips would be a necessity to keep the buttstock from being damaged, a full metal buttplate would be even better. I would say if that's the case they would certainly be in line with the original guns.

Perhap the middle schnabel is to facilitate two handed use for climbing.

Barry:

Entering the exhibition room at the Guild show for the first time was a humbling experience. The collective talent of those craftsmen boggles the mind. The quality of the work and the grace of form are evident everywhere. Sure, not everything is to my taste, but that is why they are called custom gunmakers.

It has been said that this is the Golden Age of custom firearms. After a stroll through the exhibition one would be hard pressed not to agree.

Glenn

Thanks Barry!

There have been fullstock rifles since the beginning, this simply a continuum in the tradition of fine gunmaking.
IMHO Schnables are stylistic, not palm knobs.
Best,
Steve

Thanks as always for the pictures Barry.

Jerry is a class guy and a great talent.

My own personal story about Jerry is when I applied for regular membership to the ACGG. I was sitting outside the room where all the prospective new members had their work on display for judging by the current membership (two-thirds of the regular members have to approve of your work to become a regular member). Jerry came by, introduced himself, and struck up a conversation. He knew that I was nervous, pertified is probably a better choice of words and he reassured me that if the guys that signed my application thought I was good enough it would work out just fine for me. Jerry, I found out later, considers himself to be a kind've unofficial ambassador for the Guild and does this for all the new guys.

JOe, I'm sure that Jerry would make you a rifle just like the one pictured - with your improvements of course. I'm only guessing as to the price but $40,000 plus should be close.

Thanks for the input guys, and SDH you are very welcome, I want to come by and interview you one of these days if you are not too busy.

Hi Barry!!

Fisher is a legend!! and a great guy to boot! I was totally blown away by his work!!.... his shop is immaculate ,...you can eat off the floor..
Barry introduced me to him last June when I was in Montana we went to visit him one afternoon,..discussed work techniques saw a lot of nice guns, and later on that evening we all had dinner together....fresh Montana Rainbow Trout a la CJ..... remember Barry??

BTW,....I'm still waiting for all those pictures we took!!


Claudio

Wow!! Thanks, Barry, for the great story. What a display of talent. I only wish I had the ambition, let alone the talent to accomplish something like this. What a gorgeous piece of wood. I would like to see that when he is done. Maybe you can give us a follow up when that happens. Thanks again.

This might seem like a silly question, but do you guys ever get to see Bob Munden out there in Montana? If you do, I'll bet he is quite the character! Good luck.

Don't want to hi=jack...don't think Barry will mind adding another dimension.
This is Jerry at age 76 in October 2006 outside of Roundup, MT just a half mile from the Musselshell River. He is 6' 2" about 180 and hunts deer every fall. His rifle is a 7 mag pre-64 brld action in a custom Fisher stock (1967?) with the checkering worn flat. He says, "the rifling's worn pretty smooth." And was quoted in a magazine a while back as sayin he had, "shot a whole herd of mule deer," with that rifle.


Jerry & I same hunt. For those who are curious, my knarly whitetail (right) is out in the back shop and measures 18" spread. Fisher's Mule Deer was a monster, extra knarly old 3 point buck, just as he is. (Jerry's hunting buddy Jim, of 30+ years, shot the deer in the middle.)
http://
Best,
Steve
P.S.Barry, next time I'm up there I'm going to interview you!

My comments were not directed at Jerry or his work...,I'd like to make one post on here without some idiot jumping down my throat.

40k hmmmm!
I could point out some handsome Coopers 'n Kimbers that would match this maker at a fraction of the cost.
In fit finish and at range/game.

I honestly doubt that.

You are correct- that was the purpose- ditto a Mauser 98K for the German Mountain troops and some of their Airborne units-some had both heel and toe clips for that purpose you mentioned, some had a metal plate on the outboard side- and the "butter knife" bolt handle was designed to be close to the stock to avoid brush or debris from getting tangled- as the Mauser BA rifles can be "dis-abled" from firing by lifting up the bolt handle (some. if not all anyway)!!Hemingway sure wrote about them-even though he used a G&H 1903 Sporter in 30-06- usually with open sights in both "Green Hills of Africa" and "True At First Light"- women in his stories used the M-S rifles..

Just what in the hell is wrong with you people? We are being shown pictures of a rifle being built by one of the finest gunmakers in the world, along with commentary by two of his peers, and you feel the need clutter up the thread by pretending you are important enough to criticize it with your petty comments. Sure, you are entitled to your opinion, but just what makes you so damned superior that you feel compelled to rain on someone's parade?

I am sure you know more about fine gunmaking than all of the members of the Guild combined, but at least you could have the dignity to allow us to happily wallow in our ignorance and inadequacy. It is kind of like your 2nd grader coming home with a picture that you put on the refrigerator... Just hope you guest right if it is a goat or an elephant and tell us how proud you are.

Or heaven forbid, keep your own counsel...

Glenn Fewless

Why j0e....I single handed helped you rid yourself of the who dunit Purdey that kept you up at night!
Nothing like the real thing eh j0e.

40k per his rifle, and I bring up production rifles at a fraction of the cost, with all of the quality one could want and more.
This is not raining on someone's parade - it's guncabinet snobbery from the "Guild" set!

Sorry for the rant guys. On the bright side, I figured out how to use the ignore feature.

But I am feeling much better now...

Glenn

You see what I what I meant when I mentioned at an earlier date about off topic posts? (In the voting post) Topics don't always HAVE to be about double guns. Handmade guns, craftsmanship, hunting buddies, lifetime memories galore- it doesn't get any better than that, does it? And better yet, the sharing them with other folks on the board. This is heaven, right?

That's the spirit - if one doesn't agree with you, hit the ignore button.
...and presto!

Well, I must admit I don't have a Cooper, or a Kimber in my gunrack, (although I have bought and sold a few).
Perhaps I will have to content myself with my Gary Goudy Stocked 416 Rem Mag Model 70( crossed chisles tweeked the forend in his bending jig when the piece of figured french decided to get squirrely), the Lee Helgeland 7MM Mag mauser,my Pete Grisel 3006 model 70, and my Winnie model 61 pump, which my dear mother gave me when I was 10 or so. Of course I have others, but these are my favorite personal Rifles. ( and my 88's, gramma and granpas guns, in 243 and 308).
My Shot Guns are another story, which doesnt fit here..
Presently I have a Fisher Mauser Sporter in 300 win ordered, which I think will be around 18k. Can't wait to take that to the field.
Kimber and Cooper make some fine guns.
I doubt if anyone noticed in Coopers 2008 catalog they mention,their factory engraver, Jeff Spicer, who I trained here in my studio in Montana, before I secured him a position with Ithaca Classic doubles, where I provided further training to Jeff, and the other engravers working there at the time.
I quote the Cooper catalogs reference to Jeff Spicer "Having learned his craft under such renowned teachers as Barry Lee Hands- Jeff honed his skills with Ithaca classic doubles"
Yes, they make a really fine production gun.

Mr. Fisher deserves every dollar he gets for his work....(don't mind Lowell he's not been right since he bought the cow-boy'd Beesley).

So far, we have the bench crowd's deleted reply that was ranging from Mann's high of 40k down to Hands low of 18k and one ignore button pusher. No wonder eh!

Glenn, There are a few here who suffer from Verbal Incontinence. You have to learn to just ignore them. They interject themselves into almost every conversation, having nothing to offer and don’t understand the conversation at hand. Maybe Jerry could get a computer, log on here so he could learn how to built a proper rifle ;-).

Michael

My best regards to Mr Petrov
Fisher stocked Barry lee Hands recut Turnbull colored George Gibbs 577 Nitro. . .

Some of those darn ACGG bench types. . . .
Barry Lee Hands, David Trevallion, Monte Mandarino and Michael Petrov at the Guild show 2008.

I wondered where Jeff Spicer ended up after ICD. They had a Spicer engraved gun that was just beautiful. I was about to pull the trigger on ordering one done by him, when the company closed. I searched the net for a year or so trying to find out where he landed. Cooper got a good one in him.

Such self-promotion Mr. Barry!
No wonder, I like those never-been-on-the-bench-lately originals so much.

Barry, Thanks for the eye candy! Art like this is why I log on !! R Rambler

Is CC demonstrating some of his trick shooring skills....I like your website Barry.
Did you have to let your assisrant go ?

Barry, thanks for the posts. The artisans featured here, including yourself, are among the elite of two generations. Not only that, they are good personable humans who will come down from Olympus and associate with us, the unwashed.

Features of custom work that please one customer might not be the choice of another. That's precisely why it's custom.

Would that I could order Mr. Fisher's next project!

Curl

I asked Mr. Fisher for a price list back in 1966 when I was stationed in Vietnam and really starting to get interested in guns and custom stocks. He sent me the list and I could have had him stock my .338 Model 70 for under $300 at that time.I know it sounds cheap but at that time I was clearing about $160 a month with my combat pay,so it was a considerable amount of money for me.I did not have him do it and have regretted it ever since as I have watched his reputation and skill grow over the years.
I know his prices seem unseemly to some but you are buying the work of a master at the peak of his skill.I know you can buy an approximation of a "name" maker gun for considerably less but many want the real thing and since their output is very limited they can charge more because people are willing to pay it.We pay car mechanics 40-75 dollars an hour to work on our vehicles so I cannot really see us expecting a master artisan to take less for his hard earned skill.There are people who can paint you a very good copy of the Mona Lisa for about 5 grand or so,good enough to satisfy your longing for that image on your wall but I don't think that means the original is over valued.Same with a lot of other "name" items,there are people skilled enough to make a copy but the original maker just about always gets more money.JMHO

Yes, thanks guys, Norm, Lowell ( if I dont promote myself , who will?)Highstrap and Joe, I am glad you like the website, and yes the assistant has been let go, hopefully I will get another through the student work program.
I think CC was checking the cast of the toe, hehe, youll have to ask him.
Curl thanks for your support, I am grateful as always.
Rhd, thats an interesting story, Jerry was in my studio this morning, I forgot to ask him if he remembers sending anything to Vietnam, but I will ask him next time I see him.
Heres another pic of a gun I engraved for Jerry a while back. . . .

Barry,

Thanks for posting this. It is a pleasure to see a master's work. I have had 1 truly custom rifle done. I know you only get what you pay. In this case, a master is worth the price.

Pete

The English can build shotguns but it takes an American to build a rifle like that.





Ps...Barry I bet you hated to let the girl in the mini-skirt go.

yes, americans do build the best rifles. Here is a gripcap on a fisher stocked Sako.

I have to jump in here.....Glenthorne,Your an Idiot! Do you even know who Jerry Fisher is? ...Trevallion..cc.

Give the guy alittle credit CC....He knows who Kimber and Bushnell is.

"T" - its things like that, that makes me buy the most original gun/rifle I can buy, so they never see you, or your bench.

What a loss ! How is it that you hold people like Jerry Fisher in such low regard ? I have never met the man but he is famous for the high level of stockwork he does --- I as many others , hold him in high regard. Remember, it was a stockmaker (of lower skill) that made the stocks on the guns you value. If Mr. Fisher or Dave had made your stocks when the guns were made, would you still feel the same ? Is it the fact that he is well paid & backed up with work that bothers you ? Please explain why you have such low regard for these men.

Truth is the rifles he holds in high esteem were all influenced by people like Mr. Fisher.

I've been scratching my head trying to remember if I ever held one of Mr.Fishers guns back in the 1970's and 80's when I used to make my monthly trips to Dunns fine gun room in Grand Junction Tennessee. I was like a kid in a candy store with no money.
There was a rifle by Dale Goen that I don't even want to think about...I remember it was $3,500 more than I had.

I hold no one in low regard, just the comments of Mr."T's".
A handsome rifle yes, not their grandmother's broach like shown.
You need to pop on RimfireCentral and see the better Coopers and Kimbers.
...and "lower skill" my eye!

Another Fisher I photod, a 300 mag

Agree 100% with you Barry- and you just echoed what Paul Curtis said in 1934 "Guns and Gunning"- later Jack O'Connor in 1949 "The Rifle Book"- although I think it is fair to say that had not Peter Paul Mauser "paved the way" for the bolt action rifles back prior to 1900 era-perhaps that might be different. Jerry Fischer is to the Art of Gunmaking what Itzak Pearlman or Van Cliburn are to classical music, Van Gogh and Monet to art-etc- "Top of the Top Shelf" and the fact that he is a unselfish outgoing gentleman and an avid hunter/sportsman is just the bonus. I would love to own one of his "Steinways"-but as this is a doublegun forum, I would also love to own the Robert Owen mfg. British sidelock 12 bore pictured in the Curtis book on page 147.
Fine gun work is fine work, no matter where or when it was created. In an era of "mass produced weaponry" artisans like Mr. Fischer help to keep the dream alive- when I use one of my older M70's or my Sako(pre-Garcia FN action Forrester, custom stocked by Mews, in .243 Win.) I appreciate even more what quality I hold in my hands. Old gentleman, also a M70 man, once told me- you get a Sako BA rifle, you'll never let it get away-of all my accurate rifles, that Sako is a MOA weapon with Hornady ammo-and as all my rifles do, it wears a Leupold. I have sent them 2 Vari-Power scopes and 1 fixed power scope over past 4 years- repaired or in one case, replaced with a new "upgraded" AO varmint scope-now on the Sako- Do they make the best scopes in the free world? I can't say- never used a Zeiss, Schmidt und Bender, Dockter, so I am not qualified- have used Redfield and Leatherwood ART on military BA rifles (.308) but I'll stay with Leupold-RWTF!!

Run, in my opinion, it was a Paul Curtis owned Owen shotgun that was offered at auction within the last year. Unfortunately, the auction house and the consignor were apparently unaware of its very interesting provenance. No, I did not purchase the gun. Bill Murphy

I had the pleasure of sitting with Jerry Fisher at a NRA banquet about 11 years ago. After shaking hands with him I made a mental note not to wash my hands for at least two weeks, just in case some of that talent rubbed off. A true gentleman, I feel very privileged. Bill

Being a floundering gun tinkerer, I find the work of the true artisan gunsmiths just amazing. Anyone that has tried to do any of this type of work only appreciates the great work more.

Barry, great pics. You'll have to share some of your still-life pic skills with us sometime.

Wow. What fantastic work and incredible pictures! When will Mr. Hands publish a book of his work and his pictures of the ACGG artisans?

In every occupation, we stand on the shoulders of others that went before us. Some of those individuals great ideas have become common place to those who came behind. For myself, I have benefitted from those who came before. Jerry Fisher, Duane Wiebe, Leonard Brownell, Dale Goen, Monty Kennedy, Darwin Hensley, David Travallion, Alvin Linden, G & H, Winchester. L.C. Smith, A.H. Fox......you get the picture. None of the current firearms we shoot would be possible without men and women of talent and imagination...and not any of them less important than the other. Those who have become well known are no less important than those who have not. Each gave/gives hours of hard work to accomplish a goal set before them. Whether in a factory or a single work bench.

In 1981 Kimber Industries/ Kimber of Oregon needed unskilled labor to produce gunstocks. I qualified for the unskilled part. I now am proud to associate myself with the members of the ACGG as a stockmaker. Their common goal is to encourage the production of excellence in form and function. Each member is known for their desire to encourage others to excell and make sure the eye candy doesn't become a think of the past. As in all things...people are people...you may not get along with a particular individual. That doesn't lessen the level of craftsmanship learned or displayed.

Dan Cooper went another way. He too is a Kimberite. Five former co-workers went with him to form a company that is known for excellence in their product. They too have people that are unknown working behind the scenes. They work hard just like the rest of us. Kimber of America still calls on former Kimberite people and others to improve their product and bottom line. They too have people known only to their co-workers.

If it were not for the encouragement of Darwin Hensley and others in the ACGG I would not have focused on becoming better at my craft. I could have found another occupation to feed my family. Each member of the ACGG has been helpful and giving of their time and information. (Try getting that from the Old World without blood, sweat, and tears.) David Travallion and Jack Rowe are the exceptions to that rule.

Back to the original idea...we stand on shoulders...Kimber used Leonard Brownell, Duane Wiebe, Darwin Hensley, Jack O'Conner, and many others to guide the development of Kimber quality. They learned from others and were in turn originators of ideas not seen before or improvements on other ideas. Men and women like them have raised the bar of what is considered "Custom" today. Others now have taken up the challenge of excellence. It may not be your idea of what you like. If not, find someone who will make for you what you need and support them. Without your support the industry dies!

Thanks guys, Chuck, my ole bottle o' red buddy, and Dennis, I really appreciate the kind words about Jerry's work.
The pics I take currently with a fuji finepix 700, an inexpensive, but good cam. On most of these pics, I am using flourescents stood on end on each side with a black cloth behind. The Rifle is muzzle down on a steel rod in the muzzle, stuck in a block of wood, I have different rods for different calibres, and the block and rods were made by Fisher!
I photograph quite a few guns for Fisher, trevallion clients and Helgeland amongst others.
Sometimes I send out my own work to others to photo, as a third party can have a different view. I recently had some great pics done by Steve Hughes.


here is another pic of the 300 mag

I know I'm going to catch some flack...but that scope and rings are an abomination setting atop that gun.

JoE hit the mental IgNoRe BuTtOn my friend.

A couple of pix of a Fisher .220 Swift on a FN single shot action with bottom metal (such as it is) bench made by Jerry. A very cool rifle made about 10+- years ago, no engraving. For those that are in tune wih bolt rifles, this one help inspire Fishr to create his proprietary round body bottom metal for Mauser & M-70, the MacNaughton, Dickson of bolt rifles. (Also note that grip cap that Barry so nicely embellishd is a proprietary Fisher item.)



Also a recent pic of one of Barry's, you may see a similar version on a magazine cover in the future. (Steve Heilmann sideplated Ruger #1 in .35 Whelen.)

Barry,
Proof that it ain't the stick, but who's swingin' it. Amazing pics can be made from the inexpensive equipment available today. Lighting, composition, technique, and subject matter, was, is and always will be what photography is all about.

Ahh, the Montana gun cartel, eah?

So s this a non-drop floorplate- and you unload by cycling out the rounds- I have a M54 SuperGrade in .220 Swift my late father bought- sent to Winchester custom shop in 1940- rebuilt to the M70 bolt-safety-bolt release and trigger, a similar forged steel floorplate and trigger guard bow replaced the older sheet metal one -had a Stith scope when Dad gave it to me in 1980- 26" stainless barrel. Having a hinged drop floorplate is not really necessary on this varmint caliber- I only load one rd. at a time, so it could be a "BA single shot" I guess. But if I didn't have Dad's old "varmit vaporizer" I'd sure love to own this one you have shown us-that is one fine looking rifle indeed- form and function, and nothing on the rifle that doesn't belong there-RWTF

8-Bore- wonder what it "hammered" for- and if the purchaser knew it was one that Robert Owen made for Capt. Curtis? Nash B. somewhere mentioned Robert Owen as being involved with John Olin and the M21-rumor, or fact? RWTF

In the squirrel woods, where it belongs.
No camera, lights and action!

Action...where's the dead squirrels ?

Run, Mr. Hughes may correct me, but the Fisher Swift looks like it may have been built on the sweet little FN #7 bench rest action and we don't jack shells through that action. We load them one at a time. I had a Gebby Varminter on that action, let it get away, but I know where it is. I think that action is a bit scarce outside of bench rest circles and I have never seen another other than the Varminter. It is one smooth working action although that's about all I know about it. Maybe SDH can fill us in. Bill Murphy

I thank Jerry Fisher everytime I use one of his excellent scrapers and sometimes wonder what stockmaking forces influenced the final design of these simple yet highly effective tools.

Yes, Bill, that is a FN single shot action with a solid bottom receiver.

Here are a couple of pictures of Jerry Fisher and I on our visit to his shop looking at that very 300 Mag. rifle Barry posted on the previous page,.....he said it was one of the finest blanks he ever put on a rifle!





CJ

That's a huge muley on the wall.

Yes very impressive,...everything in his shop is impressive,..it's a reflection of the man and his work. CJ

CJ,
I see Jerry is hanging onto that stock pretty tight! It looks like he didn't want you sneaking out with it. I've met Jerry twice, I'm sure he doesn't remember me, but I remember him. Once at the Reno custom show and once in Vegas. I was (and still am) quite the neophyte. Jerry was only too happy to answer my questions and give me some tips. I think he and his work is superb. I'd like to see him and the other folks at the custom show in Reno again. I had a great time.
Chris

A good opportunity to plug the joint Firearms Engravers Guild of America and American Custom Gunmakers Guild annual join show in Reno, NV. Concurrent with the Safari Club International Show (SCI) January 23-25, 2009.
A good time to meet and see the work of Jerry, Barry, Doug, Glenn, Dennis, myself and other American craftsmen and women. Hopefully David will be there!
Check it out: American Custom Gunmakers Guild

I have heard of the Gebby-but never have seen one. My older Sako L579 is on the short FN action-Last night with son-in-law (and his new LH Rem BA heavy barrel .17HMR something we shot two woodchucks, and I shot two of my namesakes- just before 9'o darkish- both kits I'd guess- red fox is mainly all legs and the heavy tail- one at est. paced 300 yards with his new Remington-Shepard scope, nice rifle- first shot stung Mr. Fox- second one took off his neck, and walking over to verify and pace off- on the way back son-in-law said "Dad- there's another one along the field edge-" If he went toward the dirt road boardering the field, he was safe as houses- he trotted straight at us- my first rd. splattered dirt in front of his forelegs- he stopped, and I took him in the rt. upper shoulder at about 90 yards- I use Hornady 55 grain Moly-Coat bullets in the .243W for chucks and fox, raccoons and possums- prefer their 75 grain for 'yotes-Unusual here to see a fox at dusk- and neither "deceased" was full of mange, as in past years-my late father got me hooked on varmint shooting as a boy-just as my grandfather did with barn pigeons-can't get enough opf it- The .220 Swift shown with that special foreplate is a "Steinway"--RWTF

For a crying out loud Francis!

Yup.

For those impressed with the Guild and its member's work, I heartily reccomend joining as an Associate Member. It gives you 4 issues of the Gunmaker, which is the Guild publication. In there you get to see member spotlights, tips and advice explaining how different members tackle various custom jobs, book reviews, and articles about various aspects of the custom gun industry.

A bonus to the Associate Membership is that it gives you free access to the annual Gunamker's and Engraver's Guild Show in Reno. This alone is worth more than the cost of an Associate Membership.

Hey Tim- what's the problem- Don't tell me you are going to "gig" me as some others on this BBS did the Northern MI Turkey hunter who shot a 'yote in the ass with a load of No. 5 in a venerable LeFever double- what a crapfest that opened up- different strokes for different folks- I'm like Jim Rikhoff's answer to the pain-in-the-ass Society broad, who, according to Gene Hill, at a fancy-schmancy party, when told Jim worked for Winchester and was an avid shooter- said "Mr. Rikhoff, why must you shoot those animals-why not just shoot paper targets?" and he replied- "Well, Lady, I guess it just that I like to hear the whack of a high-velocity bullet against some solid flesh every now and then"! I kill predators that carry rabies, vermin and destroy the nests of the grouse and pheasants you like to hunt in the Fall (me too- at least pheasants) and the fact that I hone my skills and equipment (as we did in the military) and take pride in my marksmanship and ability to spot and stalk such varmints- why is that "too much" for you- or 8-bore? I don't berate the SC or skeet guys- more power to 'em-in our family we shot vermin, varmints, feral pigeons and crows to both realistic practice before hunting seasons opened in the Fall-I mark the woodchuck holes for the farmers with "Miss Dig" flags, keep my empties (I reload, as do most serious varmint and benchresters that I know) and have access to many private farms that are closed to others- as the farmers know me in the off-season and know I won't shoot their livestock or buildings or spook their cattle so they won't give milk-and as I was raised to say "please and thank you" and I know how to weld- I also do that or construction work for the farmers, as a way of repaying them- they gain little for allowing me the priviledge of being on their lands - almost "carte blanche"-am I a bloodthirsty guy- I don't think so-if you do, that's your call- but don't berate me for my shooting interests or passion for fine rifles on a doublegun forum- to each their own!! RWTF

The white-haired gentleman holding that most exquiste rifle like it was one of his grandchildren bears a slight resemblance to Ernest Hemingway in his better days- and that's meant as a compliment-our country's best writer, along with Samuel Langhorn Clemens (in my opinion)! Hemingway once said, when asked about owning engraved or custom weapons- "A gun is to shoot"- but he also was a frequent customer when in NYC at the A&F gun room-RWTF

Wow-great fotos- and his shop looks as clean and uncluttered as a hospital waiting room- very impressive indeed, thanks for sharing with us-even though this is a double gun forum- a fine gun is (G. Stein here) a fine gun is a fine gun- whether a 12 bore side-by or a Mauser square bridge custom .416 Rigby-RWTF

Here is another shop, a little more cluttered. . . .

Thanks Barry- more like the places I've seen as a retired (now) welder-welding got it's roots from the blacksmiths-same distinguished gent " A la Don Ernesto" and a handsome Springer Spaniel guarding his master's domain- Man's best friend- won't sully your good name, pick your pocket or steal your lady-Leonard Mews supposedly custom stocked my "pet" Sako in a Bishop Calif. Claro rollovercheck piece stock- thumbhole grip, Wundhammer palm swell, fits me like an Armani suit-rifle is Acra-Glas bedded, has the older Pachmayr recessed QD's and a black thinline pad- Timney trigger- glad we can appreciate fine rifles and the men who crafted them- years ago, and today-even on a shotgun forum-I appreciate fine shotguns, but where and how I hunt waterfowl gets a bit "down and dirty" so a fine custom double (as for quail or dove hunting) isn't my choice- but for varmint shooting- well like duck hunting- lotsa waiting and watching- and in "less hostile" environments, so appreciating a finely crafted rifle you have in your hands is the best of both worlds- Bless you and the other brothers in your Guild- for keeping the lamp lit for artisans present and future- RWTF

Trevallion sent this to me with the following comments:
"Do you think this Mod 12 I built back in the 1968-69 period would fit into the Schnabble Forend slot along with Jerrys ManLicker".. Its not very clear in the 'pic'! But its an Original dt design forend shernobel" My ex' always said it reminded her of "ME" when she Fondled the Nobby-Bit!!!.......best dt"

DT, who engraved the Model 12? Do you still own it? Murphy

You think it was CC's shnAble...or his fast cycling ?

Geez Barry:
Your comment adds a whole new perspective to getting a "woodie"!!
Jim

Murphy...MyOld workmate Ken Hunt...Quite a story about the Engraving...The "Then Trouble & Strife"(Wife, for folks who dont talk London.)Gave Ken a Photo of a Friend from Chicago's Drathaur(sp),which he Engraved on the left side, and I thought a "Flock?" of Eng. Woodies Flighting over a Pea Field, would look just 'Right"...John Amber pictured it in the ????? Gun Digest. I built the stock and the Oversized Forend from M.Tyessiers Best French Walnut,Stock Blank and Forend wood cost in 1967 $56.00.Ken vowed never to engrave another Winchester Mod. 12 after he finished that one!! (I dont think he ever has!) Larry Wilson has some excellent B&W Photos in his 1st Winchester Engraved Guns & Rifles.I had to sell it due to pressing Lawyers Fees in the Divorce!!Have always wondered if its still going around???cc/dt

J.O.K. from Cal...I know the "Ex" is....Its the Winchester Mod. 12 that I would like to "Hear From". It was at the Vegas Gun-Show (So I was told) around 1979-1980..(Wish the London,Eng. wood dealers still had Good French Walnut for $35.00 a Blank!!!

DT, my "Drat" has made it clear that she doesn't want to be on any pump gun, even though I have been shooting them for years. Let me know if you hear any more about that gun. I remember the Amber picture, but I'm not going to go looking for it. By the way, the last Joe Knapp Club gun I found is a P gun. Let me know if you run across it. I am trying to track it down myself. Murphy

This has been a fabulous thread! Thanks all......What Talent!