Hello Gentlemen-
I'm looking for some .620" diameter lead round ball.
Anyone here have a mould that throws round ball in this diameter?
Short of having Jeff Tanner make me a mould (I've sent him an email this morning asking about this...) do you guys know where I can find a .620 Round Ball Mould?
Know of one at your local gun shop?
Seen one at the local antique store?
Know of one on an auction site?
I'm evaluating a rifle and want to get it shooting sooner than later, any help you guys can provide will be appreciated.
--Tinker
Tink,
Lyman makes a .610 mold. Maybe you can use a patch to take up the diff?
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(bsfife5...amp;styleID=411
Chuck-
The rifle I'm evaluating is a double rifle.
I want to run balls of proper size in it to see if it'll shoot to regulation with proper size roundball.
Thanks
--Tinker
Hello Tinker
20g is 0.615. I think it`s easy to find a mould to that.
Regards Lennart
Lennart-
The grooves of this rifle are greater than .615"
I need .620" roundball.
Also, most of the ball moulds out there for 20ga are either for muzzle loading rifles - casting balls at .600 or .610 for use with patches, or smaller than that for use in shot cups in 20 gauge shotguns.
I'm looking for .620" roundball.
Thanks, and if you find something let me know.
I've been looking online and calling around on the telephone this morning for quite a while.
--Tinker
Tinker
Track of the Wolf have some .648 or .610
I used .648 dia.and pushed it through a hole that was machined to the exact size I needed for my 20 bore
double rifle.
With sizing down the round ball that was oversize I archived 2 things
1) The size I needed, and 2) a flat area that fitted into the rifling of the bore, and made it
easer to load,almost like using a bullet not a round ball.
I made my sizing die from peace of tool steel 1/2 thick,
and a 3/4" drill rod 3" long.
The 3/4" drill rod I turn down on one end to fit my drill press (1/2 dia.) The other end I machined a radius to match the diameter of the round ball.
The 1/2" plate I drill and bore it to make .620 dia.
(That was the size I needed)
You can use a arbor press or drill press to force the ball throe the die, and have a perfect size ball to fit your gun.
Casey
Casey-
First off, hello and thanks for the relevant information.
As you probably know, a double rifle is made to handle a particular specific load of ammunition, and will when properly loaded and handled the double rifle will put the groups of both barrels on the Point Of Aim in parallel trajectories until the bullets hit the ground.
I'll also assume that you know that black powder bore rifles are pretty 'load tolerant' and will often perform well 'at regulation' with more latitude than the high-strung express rifles and cordite express rifles.
Given all that, I'll note I'm seeing a 51 grain difference in projectile diameter here, and also the bearing surface of the bullet will be greater than if it's simply pure lead ball of proper 'groove or just a couple thou more' diameter.
So, I wonder...
How long do these bullets end up being once they're formed?
Is this a modern made double rifle or something from the 19th century?
How well do your loads perform in your double rifle, are you achieving good accuracy?
What is the case length, the load, and the accuracy?
Do both barrels print to (essentially) the same group?
Does this load hit to the original sights of your rifle?
Do you know the velocity of the load that works best in your rifle?
Thanks a lot for the tip, and also thanks for sharing your experience.
--Tinker
I don't know if they still do or not, but at one time Dixie Gunworks used to offer a rather economically priced mold, cut to any size you wanted. They were likely not extremely high grade & had no built in sprue cutter. If still available they might show you enough to determine regulation & if that was satisfactory, then you would not mind springing for a more expensive custom job for better accuracy. Building these molds was in fact one of the very early mainstays of DGW which helped it become a successful buisness. I know they stayed in the catalog for years, but don't have a current one. They do have a web site.
PS; another option is, if you have a machinist friend who can build a set of blocks to fit a Lyman or other handle from soft aluminum they can be roughed pretty close to size with a 5/8" ball nose end mill & then pressed to finish over a 5/8" steel ball. Dowel them while still fit over the ball for alignment. The lead will shrink a few thousandths as it hardens & this would be extremely close to desired size.
Piper-
You make a good point there...
I am that machinist friend you speak of, unfortunately I'm recovering from knee surgery and 'tooling about' in the machine shop is borderline torture right now.
I actually made it out to my machine shop behind the house early this afternoon and gathered some gear and noted I have 5/16"R ball end mills and 5/8"Dia hard ball in stock.
Thought of this one myself, and I might actually end up out there some time this weekend if this knee starts feeling a whole lot better right away.
Until then I'm still looking for .620" (or very slightly larger) diameter lead roundball.
I'd very much prefer to just buy twenty (or so) ball than buy or build a set of mould blocks and cast them, as this is evaluation time here.
Thanks for thinking on it, and for your comment.
--Tinker
Ray Rapine Bullet Moulds, 215-679-5413. Probably has several on hand, but if not will make one quickly. Excellent moulds, I have 7-8 or so from .32cal to .65cal, all round ball moulds.
I was going to suggest Rapine Molds but Woodsrunner beat me to it. I have a .610 diameter round ball Rapine mold for a 62 caliber ML Jaeger flint rifle. Also a .590" rapine for another Jaeger and a long rifle. No reason they can't make you a .620" dia mold if that's what you want. Silvers
Give Eddie May a call in Georgia, 706-581-8225, he casts ball of all sizes and is a good guy all 'round.
Steve, also WoodsRunner-
Thanks for the tip on Eddie May.
I'll call his number tomorrow and see what he can do for me.
Otherwise I think it's a pound of the 645 from Track if they have them in stock, sized in the 'bored to fit' sizing plate mentioned earlier in the thread.
WoodsRunner, is it possible for you to cast me ten or twenty balls out of your 650 mould some time tomorrow and ship them before the day's out?
Do balls of pure lead drop at exactly 650 or are they bigger/smaller?
This might all come together before the belly of next week after all!
--Tinker
Tinker, did you have a knee joint replaced? How'd it go? I am in line for one of those come August. Thanks, Chopperlump
Chopperlump-
New ACL allograft, extensive repair of numerous chondral defects.
The new connective tissue used to be the achilles tendon of a nineteen year old young man (hopefully he's in a better place now), there were tears, cracks, and voids showing the ends of my femur and tibia. For a couple of the tears there was trimming, for some of the cracks (I think) there was stitching, and for the major chondral defects where tibia and femur were showing they went in with hammer/punch and initiated microfractures on the faces of the bones - to instigate new cartilage growth.
Recovery was estimated at 4-6 months.
I'm not half way through it yet, the process has been tough and painful.
It looks like all's going well with the process, and the doctors say I'm healing well.
I am seeing this time as an investment!
So, do you have some .620 roundball?
I'd really like to get this little rifle running...
--Tinker
Tinker,
I have on hand the .650 balls that you want, and will be glad to get 25 in the mail to you. Send me your address via the private message function here on the SXS Board. If I can't figure out how to retreive messages I'll post my email address.
These will mic out exactly .650, and will come in at about 410gr. Cast from hospital grade lead,99.999% pure, with no wheel weights involved, so these are fine out of a rifled bore if that's your intent.
It will be impossible for me to mail them before Monday...I survey land and have to run lines today on a rush job. Will be glad to get them off to you Monday morning,however.
woodsrunner
WoodsRunner-
All I've heard and seen of the private messaging system on this website of late is that it doesn't work.
I have a yahoo email account that has been very reliable, and I have been asking that mail go there. The prefix of that account is one word, spelled exactly as such -- engineeringandclosure
That'll get us in contact hopefully.
I would very much appreciate whatever you could do.
Pure lead is perfect for this exercise as the bores are rifled.
Thanks
--Tinker
email sent to your address. Please advise if not received.
Got the mail, thanks.
You're a prince, WoodsRunner!
--Tinker
Check with Hornady for factory balls in that size. Castingis a pain and hardly worth getting set up for, in the quantity you'll probably shoot. Sources might be Midsouth and/or Graf's.
Jim-
Hornady was the first place I looked.
Thanks, their largest roundball is .570
--Tinker
http://gadcustomcartridges.com/Maybe try these folks?
And also try the guys that make Dixie Tri-Ball.
Fishdock-
Thanks for the note.
Nice of you to give this some thought.
I've looked at their site, and as I've seen elsewhere their range of roundball in 'bore gun size' looks like this:
.600 .610 .662 .690 .715 .735
Perhaps I should tip them off to the .648" size from Track Of The Wolf so that they can expand their line.
I also notice they're advertising the "New Cheddite" 16b hulls for Black Powder. I'll assume they're talking about the run of paper hulls we got to happen (and a pat on our collective backs for that one too..!)
I've dropped an email in their "info@..." email box asking what their selection of round ball between the sizes of .620" and .630" looks like.
Cross a finger for me.
--Tinker
Hello Gentlemen-
Just stopping in to say thanks to y'all for lending your thoughts to my search for roundball.
None of these leads panned out, but I did eventually find a source for the size of roundball I needed -- it was lurking in a billet of aluminum in the machine shop.
Take a look
here if you're interested in seeing the piece that I needed the roundball for.
It's a peach.
--Tinker
tinker, I'm sorry that I missed your original post, but it appears that you have solved the problem. If ever you need another such mould, Dixie Gun Works sells a scissors mould that they make in 0.005" increments. They look like junk, they cost next to nothing ($35?) and yet they throw beautiful balls somehow. I have one in .630 for my Lang double rifle. Works like a charm.
Brent
Brent-
Thanks for the comments.
I was on the fence with the Dixie mould service, and ended up just making it happen out of stock in the machine shop one night while I was out there pondering modifying another mould.
On your Dixie mould -
Did you request a mould for .630" balls? If so, how close to the number are they, and how round does your mould cast them?
The as-cast size was my main concern, as I didn't want to end up with undersize balls for this cartridge rifle. There's no making it up with a patch here.
I think I've asked this before, but please freshen me up on this.
How does your Lang shoot? What's the charge? Do you know the manufacture date?
--Tinker
Tinker, I requested the diameter and they made it in just a few days as I recall. It is very round. I was shocked as this was just a short-term solution initially. But it is the permanent solution now. I did measure it for roundness and forget what I found other than I was impressed.
It does not have a cut off sprue, so you have to nip the sprue off later with wire cutters.
It shoots quite well if I keep the charge down around 80 grs or so of Swiss 1.5 fg. 3-4" at 50 yds, or better.
By my best guestimate, I think it is a late 1820s rifle. The number is in the 300 range.
Brent
DIXIE GUN WORKS Dixie can make one for using noe of thier molds - you just specify the ball size.
Best regards,
Terry
Tharper-
Thanks for your thoughts.
Have you owned and used one of these Dixie moulds?
If so,
Have you measured the balls thrown from the mould?
How do they relate in size to the ball diameter you requested the mould be built for - and with what alloy?
How out of round are they, and in which direction (around the seam or 'the other way')?
again, thanks
--Tinker
Tinker,
I borrowed one once from a muzzle loading friend. It worked well enouch and the balls dropped at the proper diameter. The only complaint I had was that the sprue had to be cut-off afterwards (non-sprue plate)It was a bit of a pain finding something to make a nice clean cut with. I would specify that it cast a .620 ball in pure lead. That way you will always have the option of casting either a lead/tin alloy or pure. If you specify a alloy say 20:1 etc. then a pure lead ball will drop small.
Best regards,
Terry