Best Bench Vise

Posted by: Woodreaux

Best Bench Vise - 09/29/19 10:06 AM


If you could only have one bench vise for general gunsmithing, what would it be?

I'm more interested in features of the vise than I am in brand, but if you have a favorite maker and model, that's fine too.

As a side discussion, if you think there is a better option than the bench machinist's vise for working on guns, please chime in.
Posted by: SKB

Re: Best Bench Vise - 09/29/19 10:08 AM

4" Wilton Bullet vise.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 09/29/19 12:29 PM

Thanks Steve. Just to prime the pump a little more...

Is a swivel base necessary?
Is a carriage makers vise (tall jaws, e.g. Reed 224 or 424) or some other specialty vise better than a standard jaw vise?
Is 4" the optimal vise width?
Are replaceable jaws a must?
Machinist vise vs mechanic vise? (i.e. is the anvil on a mechanic vise essential?)
Anyone prefer a blacksmith's leg vise?

And just in case that doesn't generate enough discussion:

Wilton vs Reed vs Parker... Go!
Posted by: craigd

Re: Best Bench Vise - 09/29/19 12:31 PM

I think this is a good area to be a bit patient and check out flea markets and garage sales for something older and heavy that wasn't used as an anvil or has a bent handle like it was forced beyond what it was intended. If it's better quality, I like a quick release feature, but true and smooth is more important.

Maybe, jaw face options and why just one vise are thoughts to toss around.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 09/29/19 12:38 PM

I'm trolling eBay, Facebook marketplace, etc currently.

As for just one vise... I have a wooden screw leg vise on my woodworking bench and a quick release face vise on my general/gunsmithing work bench. I also have a small tail vise on another little bench where I have grinders and a lathe.


But I'm considering replacing my Craftsman bench vise with the primary use as a gunsmithing vise.

Thus, I'm wondering what everyone thinks it's the quintessential gunsmithing vise.
Posted by: Recoil Rob

Re: Best Bench Vise - 09/29/19 12:53 PM

Every good gunsmith's shop I've seen has used Wiltons. I like them because of the lower profile than other types.

Having said that, I inherited a 4" Yost from the 1960's that has the swivel jaw feature. A bit beat up but brass and lead jaws are still available. Works well for me. Used Wiltons ain't cheap or easy to find or cheap to ship. There's a realy beat up one now on Ebay for $325, at least he's shipping free...
Posted by: SKB

Re: Best Bench Vise - 09/29/19 01:27 PM

Yes the Wiltons are painfully expensive but you only buy them once. I do like the swivel feature on mine. I have a 2&1/2" bullet vise as well but use it for small stuff over by my Fordham tool. I need a big very firm vise and the 4" size fits the bill in my shop.
Posted by: Der Ami

Re: Best Bench Vise - 09/30/19 11:42 AM

Around here a lot of gunsmiths use a "Versa Vice" or a more modern Brownell version. They may also have another, more robust, vise of various make for "rough" work.
Mike
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/02/19 09:50 PM

Here is what I settled on for my main vise: Charles Parker 674 1/2 Coachmakers or Woodworkers vise. It's a 77# chunk of iron. Should arrive early next week.



I missed a Wilton bullet on Facebook, and all the ones I could find on eBay were either beyond my budget or looked pretty beat up. I'm certain I would have been happy with a Wilton and I'm going to keep my eye out for a good deal on one.

I'm going to answer my own original question by listing the features I like in the Parker:

Stout.
Deep throat and large,non-textured jaw faces.
High angle jaws for easier approach to the work.
Swivel base.
Covered screw.
Elegant design. (On this, I actually prefer the Reed 424 design, which is more refined to my eye).
And, as an added bonus, made by a maker of fine double guns.


I might add a versa vise type vise at some point in the future, but I was really looking for a vise to be the anchor of the bench... And this should fit the bill. I think it will also work well for knife making, hand tool restoration, etc.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/06/19 09:25 PM

I think I bought this Wilton, brand, spanking, new, in about 1990:



I had finally sickened of going to auctions, and seeing cracked, stripped, bent handles, and every other form of abused vise at auctions, and them being bid to stupid levels of cost. My vise set me back $390, at that time, replacement is well north of 1K, now, and I have a good friend who regularly pleads with me to sell it to him.

The base is 1/4” wall, seamless, drawn over mandrel, 4140 hydraulic tubing, that was polished internally and externally, for some sort of large, two stage ram. I welded flanges on each end, drilled and tapped for the vise base, with a 1” hole drilled and tapped to put a pipe plug into the top. This allowed me to fill the base with spent lead shot and oil, making the entire mount “dead blow”. It is bolted to the concrete floor with multiple anchors.

The mount is far enough away from the bench that I didn’t use the swivel feature. I can walk all the way around it. GET THE VISE OFF THE BENCH! No bench is sturdy enough. The newer Wilton’s have a key way in the bottom of the tube, to hold the vise to .005 lateral movement when you are drawing it down. That is important. The older Wilton’s don’t have that, another reason to avoid auctions, and buy new.

If you don’t have a decent vise, you have nothing. It is a foundation tool in any shop, and mine gets utilized for far more than just gunsmithing projects. I’d be lost, without it.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: gunman

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/07/19 06:29 AM

I used a 4&1/2" leg vice I bought form G & S Holloway for 39 years for most of my work.I also had a 5" leg vice used on the barrel bench .Before that I used leg vices of similar size for all my time at W & S . Additionally for very occasional use I had a 4" engineer's vice .

If only one was allowed the 4&1/2" leg vice would have done for me .
Posted by: Der Ami

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/07/19 10:35 AM

gunman,
All my German gunsmith friends normally used leg vises, while often having a heavier( don't know German brand) vise also. They all had removable wooden jaws ,usually also 1 set faced with leather.
Mike
Posted by: eightbore

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/07/19 10:41 AM

I have a baggo Parker vises big and small, but for all around use, I use a #973, a medium size swivel base model. They must have been in production late in Parker history because most of the ones I have seen have been in good to excellent condition. I have never seen one like you pictured, but it looks like a good choice. I have a 180 pound monster on one bench but it just gets in the way, does not swivel, but it looks impressive.
Posted by: Recoil Rob

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/07/19 01:58 PM

I have a Chas. Parker 288-1/2 if anyone is looking.



Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/07/19 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By: eightbore
I have never seen one like you pictured, but it looks like a good choice.


I had never seen one before either, but I think it will be great for what I'm hoping to do with it.

I came across the idea of a Coach makers vise while reading a post on GarageJournal called everything you need to know about vises. (For those interested, their 'vises of garage journal' page currently has 75,239 posts. They take their vises seriously.)

What I liked about the coachmakers/patternmakers/woodworkers vise is that it looked like a hybrid of a standard machinist's vise (heavy duty) and a versa vise (tall thin jaw faces).

I especially like the looks of the Reed 224 1/2.



My Parker 674 1/2 should arrive tomorrow. And I'll post a photo once it's in position.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/07/19 03:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Der Ami
gunman,
All my German gunsmith friends normally used leg vises...
Mike


I'd love to have a blacksmiths leg vise just for the nostalgia of it, if for no other reason, but my shop is too small to have a good spot for it.

I do have a leg vise, but it's on my Roubo-style woodworking bench. It's got a 2" wooden screw and is attached to a bench that weighs a ton. I decided to gussie it up with a little carving.



Posted by: Der Ami

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/07/19 05:28 PM

Nice job.
Mike
Posted by: gunman

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/08/19 05:15 AM

Always used lead vice clamps [ jaws ] when holding metal .Just smelt and re cast when worn .
Cork and or felt for holding stocks or barrels by the tubes and always cloth around them all when holding finished and easily marked parts .
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/12/19 10:35 AM

Going to the 5” Wilton machinists vise got you an 8” opening, over the 6 1/2 of the 4”. The 6” and larger models had cuts on the exterior of the jaws to bolt the replacement jaws to the vise, and, to my eye, created a weak spot right where it wasn’t needed. The 6 and 8 inch Wilton’s are horrifically expensive, the 8” is over 4K.
Comparing the upper end Wilton vises to products made 50-100 years past is like comparing an F16 to a Saber jet. The Wilton machinists vise is sealed, lubed, keyed, has an unbreakable nut, serviceable jaw facings, is rebuildable, and is built of superior ductile iron. It hasn’t had a century of abuse pounded onto it, and the company that built it is still right here, and will sell you the things you need to keep it going. I should get a set of smooth jaws for mine, but, haven’t, yet. The rubber faced aluminum soft jaws have been excellent, thus far.
There are two smaller vises in the shop as well, a 4 1/2” Craftsman that was a Christmas present from my Dad, and a tiny little Red Devil clamp on, that was his vise when I was a child. The flat jaws in the clamp on make it handy to straighten a cotter or nail without tearing it up, but, the small vises don’t actually get much use.
Some thought went into the mount that was built for the Wilton. Being able to walk to the back of the vise and having a clear shot at the anvil, as opposed to working only from the front, is a game changer. I’d never go back to having the main vise on the bench.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/15/19 09:47 AM

I'd buy this one.

Versa Vise
http://www.willburtversavise.com/shop/kbwd9agpekwg9uyxn57iai6aflkso0



I've had this one for 20 years. I use it mainly for wood working and holding guns/barrels while I clean or work on them.

Here's the drop in leather padded attachment I made no chance of marring metal or wood with these...the taller jaws of this vice have an advantage over most vices with short jaws.

Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/15/19 03:50 PM

Originally Posted By: [censored
]I'd buy this one.

Versa Vise
http://www.willburtversavise.com/shop/kbwd9agpekwg9uyxn57iai6aflkso0



I've had this one for 20 years. I use it mainly for wood working and holding guns/barrels while I clean or work on them.

Here's the drop in leather padded attachment I made no chance of marring metal or wood with these...the taller jaws of this vice have an advantage over most vices with short jaws.




Three, whole, Phillip’s head wood screws, holding the thing down to a chunk of 1X pine, nailed into more pine?

That isn’t a vise mount. That is stove wood. Or, exhibit A of how not to mount a vise. That, is an embarrassment.

What is the Channel Locks for? Fine woodworking?

Just ‘cause it says “Craftsman” where you park your ass, doesn’t make you one.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/15/19 04:06 PM

Buy this one. It ain’t a toy vise:


https://www.wiltontools.com/us/en/p/machinist-5-jaw-round-channel-vise-with-stationary-base/28837

But, build a decent mount for it. Don’t use wood. Or, Phillips head wood screws.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: David Williamson

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/15/19 05:13 PM

Homeless, your vise looks like a Parrot Vice.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/15/19 10:22 PM

Mr. Shittle'brains the guy was asking for a gun vise not a blacksmith vise.

My vise is mounted with lag bolts with counter sunk heads on a bench top that is made from a commercial laminated door....you'd pull the bumper off that old clunker Oldsmobile of yours if you hooked to it.

Most any idiOt knows a gun or woodworking vice is made for holding things not for beating them to death.....

I guess you could clamp your Darne bolt action shootgun in that big Wilton vise of yours and whip the hell out of it.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/15/19 10:41 PM

David I had an older Versa Vice before I bought this one close to 25 years ago...I looked today only markings on it is "Made in America".

(Maybe Teddy bOy will post a picture of his Darne or Mossberg pumper clamped in his big Wilton blacksmith vice).
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/15/19 11:06 PM

Before the discussion completely derails....

It seems like a smaller versa vise / parrot vise is a fine option for most gunsmithing tasks, since, as you said, the majority of jobs really just need the 'third hand'. If I had a little more space (and money) I would ideally have a vise of this type in the shop.

But there are also undoubtedly times when a larger vise- Even a blacksmiths post vise- would give more stability for heavier duty jobs.

I take from the whole of the discussion- and from what I've seen used by professional gun makers (on YouTube, Instagram, etc) that there is not one perfect gunsmithing vise. The Holland and Holland video, e.g., shows a variety of bench and post vises being used in the same shop, although they all seem to be of the heavier class.

Being of the traditionist/purist bent but also having limited space in my shop, I have chosen the Parker 674 1/2, which was advertised as a 'woodworkers' vise. At nearly 80# (10# more than the Wilton 6.5" tradesman vise, e.g.) it is plenty stout. But the jaw design seems like it will have some of the advantages of the versa vise (not including the vertical/horizontal switching mechanism).

Here it is next to my 4" Craftsman bench vise, which it will be replacing.

Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/15/19 11:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
the 6 and 8 inch Wilton’s are horrifically expensive, the 8” is over 4K.
Comparing the upper end Wilton vises to products made 50-100 years past is like comparing an F16 to a Saber jet.


I'm not even in the ballpark of something like a Wilton 500n, which is several thousands of dollars, as you said.

But I do have my eye on a well used Wilton 1765 (tradesman vise) that is coming up at a local auction. If I can get it for $100 or so, I'll probably go for it and just figure out a place for it in the shop.

The only way I could make a steel post stand for it would be if it were mobile, which might defeat the purpose of the steel post. I am short on space.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/15/19 11:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Woodreaux
Before the discussion completely derails....


Careful now Jim...

It was dingle berry Ted that started the derailment...

I'm betting the only thing Teds clamped in his Wilton is a lawn mower blade.

I do like the tall deep jaws on the vice you bought....

Jim it's hard to tell from a picture but the overall tall height might call for a bench height adjustment..it would be real easy to make a wood and leather drop in for it.
Posted by: Stan

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/16/19 12:14 AM

Keep in mind while discussing vises for a gunshop that the height the vise is mounted is of utmost importance, regardless the size of it. Often, in gun work, a vise is called upon to hold a part for filing. When filing it is imperative that the piece being filed is at elbow level, so that the file stroke is horizontal and not up, at an angle, then down at an angle. The best work with a file is done perfectly horizontal. I was taught this by a tool and die maker many years ago. Practice will prove this true. I have seen him even stand on a few pieces of plywood to make the work in the vise the right height for best filing, and so that the file stroke allowed his forearm to make perfectly horizontal passes, and not angling up and down.

SRH
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/16/19 05:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Woodreaux
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
the 6 and 8 inch Wilton’s are horrifically expensive, the 8” is over 4K.
Comparing the upper end Wilton vises to products made 50-100 years past is like comparing an F16 to a Saber jet.


I'm not even in the ballpark of something like a Wilton 500n, which is several thousands of dollars, as you said.

But I do have my eye on a well used Wilton 1765 (tradesman vise) that is coming up at a local auction. If I can get it for $100 or so, I'll probably go for it and just figure out a place for it in the shop.

The only way I could make a steel post stand for it would be if it were mobile, which might defeat the purpose of the steel post. I am short on space.


The 500N is right around $1100 after it is shipped. The UPS man won’t have much to say to you for awhile, after he delivers it.

Eventually, one will discover that the vise they set up for fine woodworking will be pressed into some other use. It is better to have too much, rather than too little vise on hand. If you’ve only got room for one, make it a good one. The mount is just as important as the vise itself.

I’ve separated a lot of front end components on that anvil for the car restorations I’ve done here. And, plenty of general maintenance gun work, where I could have gotten by with smaller/less. But, bigger is better.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/16/19 06:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
I think I bought this Wilton, brand, spanking, new, in about 1990:





"1990"

Hell you say...

Ted from the loOKs of your picture I'd say you have what's commonly referred to as a "set around vise".

A set around tool shows little to no use...from the pic it looks to me like it just sets around while you sit on a bar stool and drink beer and look at it and say...."bOy look at that big ol'vice".

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

I’ve separated a lot of front end components on that anvil for the car restorations I’ve done here. And, plenty of general maintenance gun work


Show us a pic of some "general maintenance gun work" you've done with your big SAV.

Ps...Teddy bOy you're more full of chit than your mossy turd pump shotgun.


Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/16/19 07:34 AM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
The 500N is right around $1100 after it is shipped. The UPS man won’t have much to say to you for awhile...


I was thinking of the 800s, which is 3-4k.

As for UPS, I'm pretty sure when they left my Parker in the carport looking like this...

... They were letting me know what they thought about carrying an 80# package!

I think the blame is more on the UPS store in Ohio that did the packaging, but I'd give UPS poor marks all around in the one
Posted by: Der Ami

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/16/19 09:29 AM

Woodreaux's statement a couple pages back is correct. There is no one vise that is good for everything. But it is also true that there is seldom room for one of every kind of vise. I have a small( 2 1/2") swivel machinist type vise with brass jaws and small Vee blocks mounted on a piece of 2x4 that is clamped in the versa vise or bench vise, depending on lighting and height requirements( and now, whether I can stand or must sit on a stool).It swivels on itself and tilts in the other vise. A hand vise gets a good bit of use clamped in a larger vise. Sometimes I lock the headstock on one of the lathes and use the chuck as a vise. This doesn't even address milling machine and drill press vises. We can't forget about the barrel vise, some people claim they use the bench vise as a barrel vise, but you can color me highly doubtful of that.
Mike
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/16/19 06:43 PM

Originally Posted By: [censored
]
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
I think I bought this Wilton, brand, spanking, new, in about 1990:





"1990"

Hell you say...

Ted from the loOKs of your picture I'd say you have what's commonly referred to as a "set around vise".

A set around tool shows little to no use...from the pic it looks to me like it just sets around while you sit on a bar stool and drink beer and look at it and say...."bOy look at that big ol'vice".

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

I’ve separated a lot of front end components on that anvil for the car restorations I’ve done here. And, plenty of general maintenance gun work


Show us a pic of some "general maintenance gun work" you've done with your big SAV.

Ps...Teddy bOy you're more full of chit than your mossy turd pump shotgun.




No wood screws holding tools, no China locks on the bench, nothing a craftsman like you would understand. You should be more careful with your hacksaw when you are sawing junk in your vise. The hack marks in the jaws of that toy look right at home in your shop, no doubt. You proud of that?
I can’t ever recall having to clamp an O/U by the tubes, like you did in your tinker toy vise.
Nice.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/16/19 06:51 PM

I clamp barrels like that when I clean them Mr. Shitt'ferbrainz.

The reason the forearm is on the barrels is because it's a Browning Superposed and I don't pull the forearm every time I clean it.

Still waiting for a picture of something clamped in your SAV.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/16/19 08:18 PM

Originally Posted By: [censored]
I clamp barrels like that when I clean them Mr. Shitt'ferbrainz.

The reason the forearm is on the barrels is because it's a Browning Superposed and I don't pull the forearm every time I clean it.

Still waiting for a picture of something clamped in your SAV.


Still waiting to hear the reason you’ve got such a crummy mount under your crummy vise.

You go first. But, a guy who mounts a vise, with Philips head wood screws, to a plank on top of 2X4s is beyond reason.

Worst piece of junk ever pictured, here.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/17/19 07:01 AM


No pic Ted....

Least you could is clamp a beer can in the big SAV and snap a picture demonstrating it's great crushing power.

Ted those are not small Phillips head screws screwed to a 2x4...the bench top is a commercial grade solid wood door. I used those bolts because I wanted the counter sunk heads.

Did yo momma try and drown you when you were little and cause your brAin damage ?....or is it just the Fwench fried genetics ?

Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/17/19 07:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Der Ami
Around here a lot of gunsmiths use a "Versa Vice" or a more modern Brownell version. They may also have another, more robust, vise of various make for "rough" work.
Mike

Ted should get out more.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/17/19 07:30 AM


Check this out Teddy.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/17/19 07:32 AM


I use it cleaning rifles too Teddy
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/17/19 07:37 AM


Worked great at holding this Ted...that's a small Unimat lathe chuck clamped in my jUnk vice with a piece of Ivory I was checkering.

Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/17/19 07:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

Just ‘cause it says “Craftsman” where you park your ass, doesn’t make you one.

Best,
Ted




Another project in my jUnk Versa Vice....

Time for a picture of your Craftsmanship Mr. Ted.

Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/17/19 12:48 PM

I like that you always have a China Locks close to your hacksaw scarred crummy vise and mount. Looks about like I figured it would.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/17/19 06:52 PM


It's otay Teddy boye eYe knew u had no craftsmanship....that's why you have such a huge vice.

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
I like that you always have a China Locks close to your hacksaw scarred crummy vise and mount. Looks about like I figured it would.
Best,
Ted


Ps Tedward what's a "China locks" ?
Posted by: buzz

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/18/19 08:24 AM

deleted
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/18/19 05:04 PM

Originally Posted By: buzz
Not trying to be argumentative Ted, but I’ve got some news for you in terms of jOe’s craftsmanship. I’ve seen and heard his turkey box calls and trumpets for which he is well known.....they are a sight and sound to behold. I’ve watched him make these devices and witnessed a high level of craft.


I know I’m impressed.

I get a lot of turkeys every year that are too stupid to get out of the way of the snow plow.

No need to waste ammunition on them.

You can feel free.

Turkey call? About like a deer call.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/18/19 05:14 PM


I'm still waiting on a Ted the craftsman photo
Posted by: buzz

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/18/19 09:43 PM

Deleted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/21/19 07:36 AM

Originally Posted By: [censored
]
I'm still waiting on a Ted the craftsman photo


Teddy here's another pic of my junk Versa Vice at work.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/21/19 03:40 PM

Originally Posted By: [censored
]
Originally Posted By: [censored
]
I'm still waiting on a Ted the craftsman photo


Teddy here's another pic of my junk Versa Vice at work.


Cleaning lady been off this year?

Looks like a fire trap.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/22/19 08:04 AM



Had a fire in there yesterday....lucky my USA made china locks were close by.

Here's the link to the most versatile gunsmith vise ever made.

Versa Vise
http://www.willburtversavise.com/shop/kbwd9agpekwg9uyxn57iai6aflkso0
Posted by: RedofTx

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/22/19 05:05 PM

I'm way late as usual, but about 3mos. ago I went to a garage sale and bought an old rusty vise. I sprayed it with WD-40 and sealed it in a plastic bag. All this talk about a bench vise got me to wondering what I had. All it said was Scout 3 1/2" and other numbers. Lo and behold it's a Wilton according to some web pages when I googled "who made scout 3 1/2" vise." Paid $5 and I'm keeping it.


Posted by: Craigster

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/22/19 05:20 PM

It's not by any means top of line, and yeah it's Chink, but I have one of these:

https://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-inch-table-swivel-vise-97160.html

It comes in quite handy, and the quality is not all that bad. But it sure a'int a Versa Vice.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/28/19 12:47 AM

The restoration of my Parker vise is coming along, with lots of work. I primed and put a coat of paint on it today, and I'm going to do the letters tomorrow. Here it is in primer:



I had painted the screw retaining washer yesterday, so I went ahead and did the letters on that.



And in the meantime, I stumbled onto a Wilton Tradesman with 6.5" jaws at auction nearby. I'm probably going to restore it and then used it for the really heavy work, including some blacksmithing. It's not as nice as yours Ted, but I'm going to try to get it back in shape.



And yes, homelessjoe, when I finish the Parker I'm probably going to sit around, drink a beer and have a good long look at it. (And then get after it, putting the thing to use before you call it an SAV!)
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/28/19 06:43 AM

Ted the SAV will be a heck of a buy someday for someone.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/28/19 12:46 PM

Jim,
You can get new jaws for that at Wilton. Any internal parts it might need as well. There is a guy who sells Wilton Parts on the 'net, but, I don't have the address at hand.
jOe, if you are waiting, my son and whatever spawn he has will more than likely keep my vise in use until not only your grave location is forgotten, but, your little paper weight vise has been smelted into something useful by the Chinese.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/29/19 05:57 PM

Hell of a buy on a non tinker toy vise:

https://www.ebay.com/p/27032343869

Half off, and ships for free. That is a 150 pound vise. If I didn’t have a 500N already....

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/29/19 06:35 PM

I bet you like fat women that like to lay around too...
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/29/19 07:19 PM

Not so, bonehead:



110 pounds, 2005.

115 pounds, last Friday night.



Don’t you get sick of being full of dung?

Best,
Ted



Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/29/19 10:37 PM

Adjusting chainline on an old Raleigh:




Nice to have the bike up off the floor and to be able to walk around it. Easy to get the dial caliper on the seat tube and measure exactly where the chain ring rides. If jOe tried this with his tinker’s vise, those 2X4s he built the mount out of would cry uncle and fall apart. I use my vise for more and bigger projects than turkey calls.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/29/19 11:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Ted Scheet'fer'brAinz
Adjusting chainline on an old Raleigh:




Nice to have the bike up off the floor and to be able to walk around it. Easy to get the dial caliper on the seat tube and measure exactly where the chain ring rides. If jOe tried this with his tinker’s vise, those 2X4s he built the mount out of would cry uncle and fall apart. I use my vise for more and bigger projects than turkey calls.

Best,
Ted


Finally...a picture of Ted's reAl craftsmanship.

Tedward that picture reminds me of a joke.

How big a vise does it take for a Fwench pOllock to change a bicycle chain ?








Answer...slightly smaller than Teds SAV.

(No offense meant towards any Polish people)
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/30/19 07:16 AM

Tell you what. Clamp a two foot long pipe in your tinker’s vise, and sit Mrs.jOe on the end of it.
Try to snap a picture before the wall tears off the building....

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/30/19 07:40 AM

Tedward I don't need a two foot pipe to satisfy Mrs. jOe. blush

Originally Posted By: Ted Scheet'fer'brAins
Tell you what. Clamp a two foot long pipe in your tinker’s vise, and sit Mrs.jOe on the end of it.
Try to snap a picture before the wall tears off the building....

Best,
Ted


I figured you had a kinky vise...you go first Ted post us a pic.



Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/30/19 07:52 AM

Check this out Ted...it's even got a set of pipe jAws for perverts.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Antique...ws/163917271964

It would appear he's missing one attachment

Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/30/19 03:56 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Tedward I don't need a two foot pipe to satisfy Mrs. jOe. blush




If she married you, satisfaction wasn’t a concern of hers. You, or the nunnery must have been the options.

I do all kinds of work in my shop. If you owned a Darne, you would discover you had time for other projects.
I’ve seen many broken Superposed Browning’s. The ribs pop like lightbulbs in a fire. Or, like model 21s. Funny you ain’t bragging on those, the losing horses all seem to make it back to your house...

The ebay vise is the same tinker’s vise you own. A little toy vise, for a guy who works on little things, and clamps his gun barrels in it to clean ‘em.

I doubt you could lift my vise to bolt it down to the mount. Probably missus jOe could.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/31/19 07:28 AM

Originally Posted By: Woodreaux

If you could only have one bench vise for general gunsmithing, what would it be?


Ted the guy didn't ask what vise would you want for general automotive or blacksmith work.

Again you just keep on and on and show how big of an idiot you really are....

I guess that's why Darne shotguns were invented...

By an idiot for idiots.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/31/19 07:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Ted Scheet'fer'brAinz
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Tedward I don't need a two foot pipe to satisfy Mrs. jOe. blush




If she married you, satisfaction wasn’t a concern of hers. You, or the nunnery must have been the options.



I got her through the mAil....out of BrA'zil Mississippi.
Posted by: Geo. Newbern

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/31/19 08:30 AM

Both you guys are making a really bad mistake bringing your wives into this foolishness. That's not just an opinion, that's a fact...Geo
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/31/19 10:08 AM

It was Teddy not eYe...go back and look.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/31/19 11:59 AM


Here's another vise I have it's an old Wards...a lot slower set up than my Will Burt Versa Vice and very seldom gets any use.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/31/19 03:55 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I bet you like fat women that like to lay around too...


First comment about the opposite sex, it was all you, blowhard.

The best vise for general gunsmithing is the best vise, period. That is spelled “Wilton” by anybody who knows anything about tools. Bigger is always better. American made is always better in a vise. There is nothing on the market to compare to the round bar, keyed Wilton, and there never will be. Your favorite new vise, the Versa vise, is full of Chinese junk parts. Anything they can get built cheaper in the Far East is in it. I’ve pressed bearings and studs with the Wilton that would have broken a Versa vise in half if you tried it. And, as Stan noted, the mount is perfectly at elbow level, well illuminated, and free standing, in a dead blow mount that makes it perfect for detail work.

Once you have a vise, you will use it for other projects. Anybody who thinks their only vise in the shop will only be used for gun work is fooling themselves. Better to buy more than you might need than less. True with a lot of tools, air compressors, for example. I’d bet you have a fine example of a Chinese compressor, don’t you?

Someday you should buy a real vise, jOe. And put it in a real mount. What you have pictured is a joke.

By the way, I never have and never will respond to any stupid PMs from you (you are an idiot) so, you can quit sending them.


FOAD, moron.

Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 10/31/19 07:56 PM

The guy asked about a gunsmith vise...you took that as an opertunity to brag about your big automotive/blacksmith vise.

What I said about fat women had nothing to with your wife Teddy bOy...

Just thought that since you like big do nothing vises that deep down you'd have to like fat women.

The pm...I just sent you an ebay link to a cool vintage bicycle seat...I should have figured you'd be too dumb to click on it.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 09:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Ted Scheetz'fer'brAins

Your favorite new vise, the Versa vise, is full of Chinese junk parts. Anything they can get built cheaper in the Far East is in it.

Best tOtal moron.

Ted


Hate to burst yer Wilted bubble Ted....

Lowes has a Wilton Vise made in China.

My older vice says USA right on the side of it...

Originally Posted By: Ted Scheetz'fer'brAinz
as Stan noted, the mount is perfectly at elbow level

Best,

Ted

(the Noted tOtal moron and eYe don't mind proving it)


Can Stan save you from yourself Ted ?

"Elbow level" is too low for detail work unless you want a back ache and a sore neck...

That's understandable that you don't know this because you know nothing about doing detail work.

Originally Posted By: Der Ami
Around here a lot of gunsmiths use a "Versa Vice" or a more modern Brownell version. They may also have another, more robust, vise of various make for "rough" work.
Mike


You calling this guy a liar...Think he's a mOron too Ted.

Tell us how you really feel TedwArd....

We wait with bAited breath.
Posted by: SKB

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 09:59 AM

Elbow level for filing, always has been, always will be. Anything else is for weekend warriors or posers.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 10:03 AM

Talk about pOsers....

Ha..ha...ha...
Posted by: SKB

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 10:21 AM

Almost 14K posts and you still have nothing to offer FrAnk.

This reminds of the time you signed up for my online remedial metallurgy class and finally learned that quenching is part of the color case hardening process. You were wrong then even though clearly your common sense told you no quench was involved. Similarly, you are wrong now to question Stan and Ted on the correct level to mount a vise. The correct height to mount a vise has always been elbow level and will remain so.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 10:25 AM

We all know you don't know jAck Scheet
Posted by: gunmaker

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 10:37 AM

I’ve got several vises in my shop, all at or close to elbow level. I do agree that as things get more detailed there is benefit to being slightly above elbow level, for normal work at elbow level, and for heavy work slightly below elbow level. While it’s a very personal thing elbow level is a great place to start, from there put some time on it and modify to suite or have multiple vises at varying heights. Typically we are talking a + or - 2” at most window. Comparing extremes look at the work height of a blacksmiths anvil and watchmakers/jewelers/engravers work height. As work gets higher you’re giving up mechanical advantage for a closer view, more control, and faster shoulder/arm fatigue due to upper body position and tension.

If a guy spends 40hrs a week at a workbench whom should tell him what works...after thousands of hours he’s figured things out.

My main vise is a vintage Rock Island No.52. 4.5” jaws with 9” opening, swivel base, and swiveling rear jaw.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 11:22 AM

I hate to admit they were right.

I'm not one to waste my time pondering things...

I'm in my shop now the Ward vise is perfect elbow level...the more versitile Versa Vice is about an inch over elbow level in the upright position...my work bench is 38 &3 /4" inches tall.

Maybe they can sleep better...
Posted by: gunmaker

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 11:25 AM

Ted, do you have any resonance when filing or sawing with that vise mounted as you have?
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 12:44 PM

Originally Posted By: gunmaker
Ted, do you have any resonance when filing or sawing with that vise mounted as you have?


No. As noted above, there is a 1" hole in the top flange, under the vise, tapped for a pipe plug. The mount is filled to within a 1/2 inch or so of the top with spent lead shot, purchased at my club, and a few quarts of 30 weight oil.

Totally dead blow. But, I think it was overkill, as there was little to no harmonic going on prior to that. I used it for a while without, but, planned on that right from the beginning.

jOe thinks you get a Wilton from Lowe's. That would be cute if it were true.
You get a Wilton from a tool jobber. Lowe's has boxes with the name Wilton on them so idiots like him think they can run with the big dogs.



Best,
Ted
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 03:36 PM

I'm not sold on the idea that a Wilton is the only good vise. In fact, the guys over at garage journal forum (who collect, restore and use vises like members of this board collect guns) seem to mostly put Wilton behind Reed and Parker. That may just be because Wilton is so popular. Like Parker or Fox guys wanting to look down on guys who shoot a Browning or whatever. Sometimes if it's popular, the enthusiasts automatically dismiss it. On the other hand, the popularity of Wilton could be because they continued to manufacture vises in the states well beyond the time Parker, Reed, and a bunch of others stopped.

Regardless, it seems like Reed and Parker in the states and Record in the UK are the top of the pile, with Wilton being the most popular and most readily available in the states.

In terms of weight, is does seem like the concensus is bigger=better up to a point. Jack Rowe (cue the know it alls who will say Jack Rowe was a hack...) says that a vise of at least 4" is best. Likewise, when you look at videos of shop tours of purdey, Holland & Holland, etc or the small shops currently making best quality guns, they all have beefy vises on the bench. I have not seen any on an island post, except some post vises in blacksmith shops. It seems to me one issue would supporting the gun while working on it. There is essentially no reasonble way to have a horse in place under the buttstock when the action is in the vise. That seems like a real problem.

As for versa vise, engravers vise, etc, there are obviously times when a big vise isn't necessary, and a smaller vise designed for a specific job is better.

It's nonsense to argue about whether a Wilton 800s is 'better' or 'worse' than a versa vise.
That would be like arguing that a towtruck is better than a sports car. It all depends of course.

As for the angle of approach, I am going to drop my bench down a few inches to address that. I might even need to get a step when trying to file, etc, perfectly square.


Posted by: gunmaker

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 03:52 PM

I made a horse out of a drummers “throne” for getting away from the bench. Works fine.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 04:00 PM

What do you mean? Do you mean the stock rests on throne (is that what common folk would call a stool?) When the action is clamped in the vise?
Posted by: gunmaker

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 04:29 PM

Send me a text at the number in my signature, I’ll respond with a picture.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 04:35 PM

Jim,
There is a point at which you are no longer in the realm of small vise work. It happens to any guy the first day that he installs a vise in his shop. I recently rebuilt a Stahl folder at work, and pressed 18 bearings out of the boxing’s with my vise. I had access to a small press, but, the Wilton is the better tool for the task, because the bar is keyed, it was rigidly mounted, and was at the correct height. The key holds lateral movement of the movable jaw to less than .005. The Reeds, Parker’s and any other square bar vises will not have that feature. That means you will stop, open, reposition, and constantly check and recheck to see that your push remains square to the work. They are also old, and likely to be sloppy, at this point in time. The old vises were blacksmith vises, to a large degree, but, the Wilton’s have far more precision built into the task of moving the jaw in and out. You can do precision work on the Wilton’s that is tough, or impossible on an older vise with some wear, and, you can do blacksmith work if need be.
I’ve owned both. The Wilton makes most tasks simple. It is also difficult to find older vises that don’t have a bunch of lash from wear and abuse. I don’t want to turn the handle 3/4 of a turn in or out before I get a reaction on the movable jaw. That makes it too hard to position the work. I have cut new nuts for old vises with buttress threads, and while it improves things, it is not like a new Wilton.
The guys that restore and collect vises have their own reasons for doing that. It may not be to have the best all round tool up to any task that comes your way. Nostalgia doesn’t pay the bills. The sports car and tow truck analogy is way off track, by the way. The bigger vise has more material on the jaw surface, spreading it out over a larger area, and using less force to hold the work than a smaller vise does. The bigger vise gives you options the smaller one can’t. The big vise can do big tasks, and is useful for detail work as well. The little vise is useful for detail work, and not up to bigger tasks. It isn’t an accident that you don’t see any Versa vises in those gunmaker videos. I can’t argue with Jack’s assessment that 4” is minimum, either. But, I’d say not a Sears Craftsman 4”, and if I have to explain the difference between consumer and industrial 4” vises, I might as well be at the beach.

Looks like our homeboy jOe be a Lowe’s kinda playa’. We should have known.

If you want one vise in your shop, you would be hard pressed to beat a round bar Wilton. I like the 500, because it does not have the external cuts on either jaw like the 600 and 800 models, has a 5” jaw, has adequate mass, and is smooth on top. Is is built of ductile iron, keyed, sealed, lubed, and has a functioning company supporting warranty and parts supply. The best time to buy one was 20-30 years past, the second best time is right now, before the next price increase.
What is not to like?

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 05:21 PM

I don't disagree with any of that, except that it seems like an old vise is sort of like an old gun. It is more likely that an old Parker gun is going to have some problems, but it's hard to find a new gun that was made to the same level of craftsmanship. The Wilton vises still made in the USA are probably the closest to it. After all, your vise is nearly 30 years old now.

As for big vs small, I also agree that the big bench vise is more versatile and should be the center point of the work bench. But there is also a reason that engravers, checkerers, etc have specialized vises. The analogy probably should have been a crew cab f250 vs a sports car /mini van/ sedan / Jeep / 4 wheeler etc. There are not many things that an f250 can't do, although for some tasks a specialized car might do better.

I'm almost finished with my Parker restoration, and I'm going to get my Wilton 6.4" Tradesman restored next. It's not to the standard of a 500, 600, etc but I doubt I'll be able to tell the difference. After a decade or so of service at Seacor Marine, it's still pretty dang smooth.

What do you mean by a keyed bar?

Also, a 4" craftsman is what I'm replacing... No need to convince me that they are different animals.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 06:02 PM

This:



There is a key that holds the movable jaw square to the rigid jaw. If you’ve ever had a vise that dog walked on the way in and out, this is what it takes to cure that.

If you already have two vises that you are going to clean up and put into service, that is great. I have a hunting partner that has had a big vise, sitting loose on the floor of his garage for a decade, never got around to mounting it, and he uses it just like that. I wouldn’t do that, but, I’m not him. When he needs something rebuilt, he brings it over here. New vises are spendy. I got sick of going to auctions and seeing beat up century old vises sell for 7/8ths the cost of something new. So, I bought new. $390 was a tough nut to crack, just like $1100 would be, now.

I’ve never heard anyone say these three things. My vise is too big, my air compressor makes too much air, or, my shop has too much electrical power available, and the lights are too damn bright.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Stan

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 06:56 PM

Y'all got me to thinking about my vises, big and small. My big vise in my farm shop is a COLUMBIAN #504 1/2. They are sold by Wilton now, and sell new for about $800. Don't know if Wilton made them when mine was made, it's very old, and "WILTON" is not on the vise anywhere.

https://www.trick-tools.com/504-12M3-Columbian-Machinist-Bench-Vise-10104_7458

Took a pic of it on the "bench", but can't post pics anymore on here due to photo bucket finally catching up with my free usage. I pulled up an ad for a new COLUMBIAN and it looks exactly like my old one. I couldn't farm without it, or my old anvil. Have another cheaper vise, about a 4 1/2", with a swivel base, mounted on my fuel trailer that we pull to the field. If I need to hold something to repair it in the field, it gets used. Not a fine, expensive vise because it often gets rained on. But, very handy for field repairs.

I have an old post vise in my gun shop, along with a woodworker's vise mounted to the front of my heavy bench, two vises for my drill press, a little vise that clamps to a counter edge, and a couple other smaller ones like hand vises and pin vises.

I'm pretty well covered in my needs for vises.

SRH
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 07:42 PM

Stan,
Send me the pic, I’ll get it up for you. Email in profile. I’m pretty sure Wilton acquired the Columbian name, back in the day.

I have a friend that is in your boat, all his vises (many!) came from his ancestors, save the Kurt vise that is on his Bridgeport vertical mill. Those are spendy, too.

He took the mount idea for my vise one step further. He cut the concrete in his shop floor, and installed another steel mount in a hole he dug where the concrete was. That mount, and the one that mounts his vise, have identical twin drilled and tapped flanges, and he tied the bottom one into the concrete floor, and filled the hole with concrete. Now, to swing the vise, he removes the bolts that hold it to the lower mount (he calls the lower mount a sarcophagus) rotates the vise, and bolts it back down. The advantage is the swing is located far away from the vise proper, and held in place with 6 1” grade 8 stainless bolts, instead of two small levers on a typical swivel base. I seem to think that his Columbian vise, mounted this way, had zero harmonics, perhaps the mount under the floor is better at absorbing them.
That vise was his Grandfather’s. He has wealth in vises. That is the friend who would happily buy my Wilton for more than I paid for it.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Stan

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/01/19 08:31 PM

My Columbian was my Grandfather's too, Ted. I'll send you the pic, which also shows what it is mounted on, a massive sawhorse type support made of I-beams. I could hit something in thats vise with an 8 lb. sledge hammer and the vise would not budge.

My post vise in my little shop is mounted on a steel support I welded up, consisting of a steel plate on top of three legs of 2" galvanized pipe which go through the wood floor and into the ground under the shop, around which are poured several bags of Sakrete. It doesn't budge, either.

SRH
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/02/19 12:54 AM

Stan I believe you have Tedward beat for the biggest badest vice award....

Unlike Tedward you have a use for something like that.

Hard to believe that a guy asked about about a gunsmith vise and it goes to this.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/02/19 01:00 AM

Originally Posted By: gunmaker
Ted, do you have any resonance when filing or sawing with that vise mounted as you have?


Only "resonance Ted has is between his gums when they are flapping...

He uses his big vise for holding his clapped out bicycles while he turns the peddles...and for pushing in bearings and bushings in his Tedmobile classic car...

Teds biggest detail work is taking out the trash.


What Ted needs is one of them exercise bikes in his shop so he can peddle while he looks and his do nothing vise.

Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/02/19 09:54 AM

When you know better than to shop at Lowe’s for tools, you can tackle projects like this:











Stahl T22 folder, rebuilt by me. Every bearing was pressed at my house in the vise. I didn’t take pictures of how it was cribbed up to do that, because I was on the clock. Every bearing was in an aluminum boxing, and if you pressed with it cocked in a cheesy vise (like your Wards) you would break the boxing, and have to find a used one-they aren’t available from Stahl. It’s OK for you to admit you wouldn’t have any idea where to start, after all, you consider Lowe’s a tool store. Yes, that vise gets used for gun projects also, bike projects too. That is my point. The best vise allows you to do more, and do bigger and better work.

Ever built a wheel? Of course not. That takes talent:




That is a Sturmey Archer AM alloy hub. They were never available in a bicycle, you bought them over the counter. Just a handful made it to the US, it was considered a track hub.

The right vise lets you do more. I don’t typically have a camera in the shop, might have to change that if it’ll shut you up, and keep you from posting nonsense about buying tools at Lowe’s.

I imagine you got the Snap On pliers at a garage sale.



Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/02/19 10:41 AM

((((Ted you know your pictures with the "camera" suck for detail...Try taking them with a cell phone. I take your ol'lady does let you own a cell phone....))))

Back to subject line.

Tedward....nothing you have shown yet has anything to do with gunsmithing or hand detail work.

So you pressed in a few bearings and fixed a tire on yer Dinosaur clunker bike.

WhOOpy dOOpy dO Ted....

You do know they make presses made for pressing bearings.

Ps...I love the wobbly looking work bench....I see why you mounted your vise on a pipe sticking out of the floor....

Goes to figure you'd be into Tuperware storage.

Nice
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/02/19 10:46 AM

Big sale at Lowe’s.....

You need a vise for gun cleaning, and scrimshaw? ‘Cause that is all you have posted crummy pictures of. What, you only have one arm?
Best be careful clamping on that Browning, the ribs let go just to be mean.


Best,
Ted

__________________________
That China Wilton might be better than what you now own.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/02/19 10:56 AM


That wheel going on yer TedmObile ?

I bet it'll look nice...what is it about a twenty six inch'r ?

Tip...

Might need a few more wheel spokes just in case you pick up a fAt girl in the TedmObile.

Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/02/19 11:03 AM

Ted's battle of the Dinosaur vises....I love it.

Nice looking shop Jim.

Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/02/19 11:18 AM

Wheel is in a 1949 Sports Tourist. You couldn’t figure out the wheel was being built?



Better hurry on down to Lowe’s, playa, they got some tools you need.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/02/19 11:22 AM

I thought it was going on the TedmObile.

You ever think about going on a bike fOrum so your talent could be appreciated ?

Ps...stay away from photography forums because your photo quality sUcks.

Here's the link I sent you in a PM Ted..... https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-bicycle-seat/264515336377

Even has a back rest and a cod catcher.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/02/19 11:35 AM

Well, that makes two of us, because your gun and gun skill set quality sucks.

You off to Lowe’s? Got some tools for you there....


Best,
Ted

_________________________
Look into that China Wilton, a big step up for a playa’ like you.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/02/19 07:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Well, that makes two of us, because your gun and gun skill set quality sucks.

You off to Lowe’s? Got some tools for you there....


Best,
Ted

_________________________
Look into that China Wilton, a big step up for a playa’ like you.


Ted why you bad mouthing Jim's gun and gun skill set...

Do you even know Jim ?

Speaking of Lowes I made a haul today at Lowes.



A few more trips to Lowes and I'll have this Snap On box chock full of junk tOols

Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/02/19 10:38 PM

I wasn’t speaking of Jim, who has good taste in tools, and vises, good taste that you lack.

You are your own special brand of stupid. Remember when you posted a comment from your imaginary playground friend, “John Kox” saying he supported homeless joe? Or, when you claimed gun internals were all casting of some sort? And, as Steve reminded us all (Steve recommended a Wilton round bar, Steve also has far better taste in tools then you) of how confused and unknowledgeable you are on color case hardening? How ‘bout when you were trying to chisel a few bucks off the gun in the for sale section, earning you the name “Uncle Cheap Prick”?
Those were all excellent examples of your special brand of lunacy.
Now, you have done it again, recommending a $79 tinker’s vise, with far eastern junk inside of it, and mounted to an old door, over a round bar Wilton in a bulletproof steel mount. Go back and read that sentence again.
That might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen here, and you have spouted plenty of dumb. You got guns that belong in a $79 vise, I get that, but, most people here are looking for good advice when they ask a question.
I expect you did make a haul at Lowe’s. Best thing I can say is you likely have drawers full of tools you don’t have to worry about anyone bothering to steal.
Good luck with ‘em. And your scrimshaw, and your $79 vise style gun cleaning.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/03/19 01:57 AM


There you go again Ted.

Anyone with just a twitz worth of common sense would know it shows you replied to Jim....except Ted.

Ted since it's so evident to everyone that I'm so deep inside your head let me ask you something...

How many times have you woke up in the middle of the night dreaming about me ?

Careful you don't wake up from one of those nightmares and hurt the missses Teddy...

Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/04/19 07:03 AM

Stan’s vise, down on the farm:



No matter what it cost, Stan’s Grandfather got more than he paid for. Same as me.

Everyone who is a tool jobber doesn’t have that vise in stock. Makes me wonder if it has been discontinued?
jOe, per usual, got it wrong-that one is 4 1/2” jaws, opens to 7”. Mine is 5 and opens to 8”.
Better check your math, Lowe’s playa.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/04/19 07:23 AM


Fine example of a great gunsmith vise...

If you were working on Howitzers.

Yer a genius Tedward you even make other peoples pictures suck almost as much as yours.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/04/19 07:27 AM



Check out this Lowes haul Teddy...

Found that cabinet in the Lowes Tupperware section where you get all your stuff..
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/04/19 12:48 PM

Only thing ever smelled right here, be you, playa'.

My pictures suck?

Your stuff sucks.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: Mike Hunter

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/04/19 04:28 PM

Wow, so much discussion on vises… and not the good kind of vices.

I’m a casual collector of old American made vises, particularly Reeds and Parkers, I’ve got a few. My bench vise is a 4 ½ inch Reed, does everything I need it to do… mainly holding things while I work on them.

I’ve got a 5 inch Reed and a 5 inch Parker, both, In my opinion, are really too big for bench work. I’ve got a small horse ranch… the bigger vises are regulated for larger work.

Never owned a Wilton “Bullet” vise, they always seem to bring a premium… and not something I could justify.

On a side note, I’ve got several pictures of the Winchester factory circa 1900, the employees were all using Parker vises.

OBTW... if anyone knows of a 6 or 8 inch Reed for sale... please let me know

Respectfully

Mike
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/04/19 05:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike Hunter
... if anyone knows of a 6 or 8 inch Reed for sale... please let me know


What part of the world are you in? I keep my eye out for old vises in Louisiana. There's a huge Parker on Facebook marketplace at the moment. Needs a little tlc
Posted by: Stan

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/04/19 06:33 PM

Here's one place that apparently lists it for sale, though it says it is unavailable right now. Looks like the same vise, except that it now has replaceable jaws. Mine doesn't, I don't think. But they're still over 50% "serrated", or checkered........ after all these years of hard usage.

https://www.trick-tools.com/504-12M3-Columbian-Machinist-Bench-Vise-10104_7458

SRH

Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/04/19 08:37 PM

That was what I found when I looked around, listed in a few places, but, not available.
Couldn’t help but notice you didn’t have Phillips head anything holding it down. Good on you, Stan.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/04/19 11:52 PM

My guess is most idiots don't know they make Phillips head bolts..

How's those internal demons feeling teddybOy ?
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/05/19 07:17 AM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
My guess is most idiots don't know they make Phillips head bolts..

How's those internal demons feeling teddybOy ?


Yes they do make Phillips head bolts, mostly for Lowe’s playa’ types to hold their $79 vises down to old doors.

The torque wrench says I have 100 foot pounds holding my forged, fine thread, bolts into the mount. Not coming loose.

I say a playa’ with Phillips head screws like you, don’t. Based on conversations about gun parts, I question whether you understand what a forged bolt is, playa’.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/05/19 10:07 AM

A Versa Vice is not for non-skilled imbeciles....

Just saying.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/05/19 12:44 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
A Versa Vice is not for non-skilled imbeciles....

Just saying.


You got the skill set to shop at Lowe's, then you got the skill set to saw up an old door, and bolt a China vise down to it with Phillips head screws.

A Lowe's playa' trifecta. Perfect for clamping tubes, and scratching out some scrimshaw. Demons, Schmemons.

Best,
Ted

_______________________
I live in your head rent free.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/05/19 03:40 PM

Speaking of non-skilled imbeciles and up jumps Tedward.

You must be seeing scratchings in yo dreams...

Because I've not shown any scrimshaw in this thread.

Could we get a close up pic of those nice tuper ware containerz ?
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/05/19 10:17 PM

Sure, dumbo:



They belonged to a late friend of mine who aged out of shooting sports, and then life. He accumulated more than he could hope to shoot and asked me to get it out of his basement. He told me to dispose of it as I saw fit. I donated some to the Boy Scouts, gave a bunch away, and sold some of it. This is how far I got.
He didn’t have any high power ammunition that I could use.
Some of the stuff is just stuff. Other than the .22 rimfire, I can’t personally use any of it.














Unopened tin of some old rifle powder. There is a bunch of it.

Dude was a WWII hero, by the way. He was on the only US ship that got in the gunsights of a Japanese battleship that had 18” guns on board. USS Gambier Bay. Didn’t end well, but, he survived without a scratch.



Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/06/19 07:54 AM

Sounds like a cool old guy...

An old long gone friend was on supply ships and went down twice in the Pacific and survived another had his bottom teeth took out by a Jap machine gunner on a Pacific island.

Sadly they are mostly all gone...the stories they could tell.

I bet if your friend was here he'd laugh his arse off at yer little man big viSe syndrome....haaaa
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/06/19 03:32 PM

He actually used my vise a few times, once to hold some tooling to push out a couple of roll pins, and once to press an alternator bearing.

The guy was trained as an A&P mechanic, did a lot of his own work right up till the end.

I miss him.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: keith

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/06/19 04:31 PM

Sounds like the OP started by asking for opinions of the best general gunsmithing vise, but then quickly added a query for input on other types of vises.

Last night, I took a little inventory of my vises. I suppose that if I can use them for a gunsmithing type operation, then they could be considered here. In my opinion, there is no one single vise that is great for all things, just as I have different guns for different hunting or shooting activities. For example, a checkering cradle is a sort of specialized vise used to firmly hold long wooden gun stocks at different angles during checkering. You could clamp your stock in the padded jaws of a machinists vise, but it would be far from perfect for checkering.

In my shop, my most used vise is a 4" L.S. Starrett Model 924 Athol Vise that currently has a pair of 4 1/2" copper jaws installed, that were milled out for me by a tool and die-maker friend. It has a swivel base. Athol, Mass., U.S.A. made of course.

It's little brother, an L.S. Starrett Model 923 Athol Vise is on the workbench in my basement. It has a non-swivel solid base, and 3" jaws. These Starrett's are extremely well made. Then I also have a nice, heavy old Reed No. 204 1/2 swivel base vise with 4 1/2" jaws. On the steel plate top mounted on my Kennedy roll-around tool box is a U.S.A. made Columbian Model D55 with 5 1/2"jaws. A roll-around toolbox is hardly an immovable mount, but it is very handy and useful nonetheless.

A drill press is almost indispensable for gun work, and I have several drill press vises to hold the things I'm drilling. On the table of my Rockwell floor model drill press is a Heinrich Tools, Racine, Wisc. Model 20A 6" that opens to over 10". For smaller stuff, there is an unmarked 4" wide vise with a low profile that I believe came off of a milling machine.

On the table of my Delta bench drill press is an old Craftsman drill press vise, and I also have a well made 3 1/4" Japanese import with an X and Y axis crosslide. I also recently picked up a nice little homemade 2 1/2" drill press vise from a local guy who sells surplus tools and equipment for $2.00 a pound. It is well machined, and may have been a project done by an apprentice machinist or tool and die-maker. It was too cheap to pass up.

Then there's the cute little 2" machine vise that is made by American Edestal and came with my Unimat Lathe-Mill-Drill. It has come in handy for a number of small gunsmithing projects, and in this application, my big heavy Reed or Starrett just wouldn't be any use at all.

I also have a couple of those small clamp-on vises like Stan mentioned. The larger one is surprisingly well made and quite sturdy and heavy for it's 2 1/2" jaw width size, but it is unmarked. I'd say it is U.S. made judging by the quality. It belonged to my grandfather.

I have three Ridgid Pipe vises, and my Grandfather's old Reed pipe vise. Two are pretty large, and one is mounted on a Ridgid folding tripod stand. Then I also have a nice portable Ridgid chain vise.

Wait... there's more! I have a little Pana-Vise with a ball swivel. It is great for holding small parts, circuit boards, etc. at different angles during operations like soldering. I think it is made of die-cast aluminum, and it certainly isn't meant for hammering or blacksmithing type work. Then I have an unusual Stanley No. 700 woodworkers corner vise, a 7" Wilton woodworkers vise, and an unmarked 10" woodworkers vise.

Some other must-have gunsmithing vises that I have are several hand vises. These have fallen out of favor for some odd reason, so most are now collectible antiques. But they are as useful as ever. I have several pin vises too, for holding screws or pins during grinding or polishing. There are some hand vises pictured in Daryl's current "Tool Mystery" thread in the main shotgun forum.

A vise is no substitute for a blacksmith's anvil. I learned this the hard way when I broke a good vise years ago, hammering on something with a sledge hammer. When I wish to press bearings, etc., I use a press. I have a small Greenerd No. 1 Arbor press, a larger Dake No. 0 Arbor press, and a Blackhawk Hydraulic press that currently has a 10 ton ram cylinder, for those tasks.

I'm sure I've forgotten a few. I know there's some large imported monstrosity swiveling jaws Versa-type-vise-on-steroids on a shelf in my shed. I inherited a few of these vises. But my best purchase deals came from car parts swap meets and flea markets. Auctions can be good too if the crowd is small due to horrible weather... the best time to go to an outdoor auction is when it's so nasty that nobody wants to go... but the really nice vises typically get a lot of bidding activity, and sell quite high.

There are some great vises pictured in this thread. Even though I have more than enough vises, I still get vise envy.

Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/06/19 04:38 PM

Unlike a few here you are well vised...
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/06/19 06:24 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Unlike a few here you well vised...


Admitting the problem is the first step.....good to see you make progress.

I have four vises, if you include the drill press vise. Baby, Momma and Papa vise. It would be tough to give up any, but, the big one still gets the most use.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/06/19 06:52 PM

A fairer statement would be they all see little or no use.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/06/19 07:08 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
A fairer statement would be they all see little or no use.


Fairer still, you don’t know your ass from a hole in the fence.

Never have used a vise to clean a gun. Ever.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/06/19 07:52 PM

Who's fault is that Tedward ?
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/07/19 12:49 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Who's fault is that Tedward ?



That you don't know your ass from a hole in the fence?

Breeding, or, lack there of, I'm guessing.


Best,
Ted

__________________________
Did Daddy have a crummy vise and mount, too?
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/07/19 04:39 PM

Best of you ran down some hoes leg...

Just saying
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/10/19 08:55 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Best of you ran down some hoes leg...

Just saying


Bet she had a better vise than you...

Best,
Ted

_________________________________
Wilton. China. You. A Tennessee trilogy.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/10/19 11:33 PM

More grip...
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/11/19 10:58 AM


Check this out Ted...I gave the Ward vise away and bought me another mount for my Versa Vice "Gunsmith Vice".

Take note Ted...They must've read this thread the newer base doesn't call for counter sunk bolt heads.

http://www.willburtversavise.com/shop/kbwd9agpekwg9uyxn57iai6aflkso0

Read the description in the above link...Wonder why everyone calls it a "general gunsmith vise" ?
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/11/19 05:23 PM

They can improve whatever they want, it still will never be a Wilton machinists vise.

The Wilton website doesn’t say anything about golfers needing a vise. Good thing there is Wilburt to cover that need...,

Best,
Ted

______________________________________
The call it “general” because it is generic, and nothing special.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/11/19 08:08 PM

Ted I can why you don't care for it....

I don't see your crAftless'Ness listed in the Versa Vice description....

"CRAFTSMAN - DO-IT-YOURSELFERS - GUN SMITHS - HOBBYISTS - PLASTIC CARVERS - WELDERS - MODEL BUILDERS - ASSEMBLERS - CARPENTERS - PATTERN MAKERS - CABINET MAKERS - TOOL MAKERS - REPAIRMEN - GOLFER"

Does Wilton mention their vise is great for bicycle mechanics ?
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/11/19 08:26 PM

Probably not. Bike mechanics don’t tend to be all that well payed. But, that is beside the point. I’ve rebuilt about 2 dozen engines, most of them big block Olds motors, but, there was a Mazda and a few Chevrolet’s in there, too, a couple drill presses, generators, serviced and adjusted triggers on a bunch of R model Darnes, fitted a few recoil pads, fixed a few spinning and bait casting reels, and a folder at work. I work on everything. If I work on it, I almost always need a good vise for some part of the work.
One little light duty vise isn’t enough. Most guys figure that out before they have a little light duty vise.



Best,
Ted

________________________________
Maybe you could sell the Parrot vise and get almost
enough to buy that China Wilton, over at Lowe’s?
Posted by: buzz

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 07:31 AM

I just bought a clean 4” Reed 204R off eBay (actually, jOe found it for me and gave me the ‘heads up’...thx jOe). . Looking forward to receiving it. Can’t decide, because I’m confused after reading this thread, if I should mount to my wooden work bench or a huge steel welding table?? I won’t be using it for heavy duty work; I’ve got a Craftsman for that 5 1/2”. Maybe mount the Reed on the wooden bench and move the Craftsman to the welding table? Ted, I’m guessing a jeweler wouldn’t have much use for your big Wilton, although it is a very nice vise. I think it’s a matter of the best tool for the job?
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 09:16 AM

Originally Posted By: buzz
I just bought a clean 4” Reed 204R off eBay ... I’m confused after reading this thread, if I should mount to my wooden work bench or a huge steel welding table?? I won’t be using it for heavy duty work. ... I think it’s a matter of the best tool for the job?


That's a great vise. Good find.

Not surprised that this thread didn't clear things up. It went off the rails pretty early

Here's my view: for a gunsmith or other similar craftsman, a mechanic/welder setup has several draw backs. The first, in my opinion, is that you wouldn't want a fine gun stock or frame to be around a welding table. Thus the lead/leather vise jaw covers, rags thrown over the screw of a post vise, etc that you see in the old gun shops. And why no serious woodworker that I've ever seen uses a steel bench.

Secondly, if your bench is built well, there are very few instances where a steel table or steel post adds anything to the stability. My bench is built in to the wall, and I can stand on it without any appreciable movement. My woodworking bench is a Roubo style bench weighing about 250#. I would bet both of my benches are more stable than the majority of steel tables or even the big vise stands guys make out of pipe and wheel hubs, etc.

Thirdly, for stock work, a heavy vise at a wooden bench has many advantages including tools at hand, easy horse setup, table top for rags, etc.

A bolted down post like Ted's is undoubtedly very stable, and I hope to have something like that as a welding/blacksmithing/pounding setup near my anvil in the carport. I bought a 6.5" Wilton Tradesman and that is how I intend to use it.

This is where my Parker 674 1/2 is going to live and where I intend to do gun work:


Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 11:08 AM

Ted is going to flip out when he sees that plywood top....

I like my vise mounted on the corner of a bench gives you more of a walk around.

I don't think you're Parker is going to be happy living that sunken life.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 12:53 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Ted is going to flip out when he sees that plywood top....

I like my vise mounted on the corner of a bench gives you more of a walk around.

I don't think you're Parker is going to be happy living that sunken life.


Maybe so, but if I break/bend/etc 3/4 inch plywood, any gun that I'm working on will already be in splinters.

As for the position, this bench is wall to wall, lag screwed into the studs. So there is no corner to mount a vise on.

Unless you just mean that my Parker will be emotionally unhappy with a lowly position in life, I have a hard time seeing a disadvantage to having this vise in a well. It's such a tall vise, that having it on a lower position will make side support of anything in the vise a little easier, will bring the work to elbow level, and also creates a tool well of sorts for laying screwdrivers, files, etc.

I built the bench this way for an old miter box and saw (the long saw on the wall). For my little 4" craftsman vise, I had a box that slid into that position and brought the vise higher, but that won't be an issue with this one. If anything, I think it could stand to be a little lower.
Posted by: Mike Hunter

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 03:44 PM

Jim

Awesome job on the vise, looks great. In my mind there is something about using a period vise when working on period guns, especially when the vise was made by a gun company.

As far as bolting to a wooden bench... not sure what the issue is, as long as the bench can support the weight and doesn't wobble. My bench is made from old wooden flooring from railroad cars, 2 inch thick T & G oak. It aint moving.

I only have one vise mounted to a steel pole, it's my "ranch vise" 5 inch reed, on a steel pole mounted to a semi brake drum filled with concrete. It's for "Grunge work" on the ranch, I use the tractor to move it around.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 04:05 PM

That looks like a vise set up to do assembly work. Anything you drop should be easy to find in the recess. You aren’t going to do real heavy persuasion work, but, you knew that. I’d be very concerned about getting the broken swivel mount repaired. By tightening only one side, you are risking breaking the swivel mount. The vise needs to be fastened properly, from both sides, when it is tightened down in position.

Buzz, how do you know the vise you bought is “clean”? Did you dismantle it, soak it in solvent and inspect the castings for cracks, and impact fractures? Did you put the lead screw in a set of V blocks, and turn it, while indicating it, to find out if it is true? Are the bushings the lead runs in worn, or distorted? Did you inspect the threads, keeping in mind the steel buttress threads tend to distort when abused, and the bronze threads in a typical nut tend to tear under the same abuse? Is the tightening bar bent, even a little? That bar is almost always bigger than the lead screw (NOT in a Wilton round bar) and if it is bent you can bet the lead is, too. Did you walk the movable jaw in and out, and observe if and where it dog walks, and observe if one side makes contact first on the stationary jaw, and by how much? What kind of shape are the jaws in? Can you service them? Do they need to be serviced? Will you service them?
My ideas of a “clean” used vise go a bit further than an internet photo.

Good luck with it, by the way. I haven’t had very good luck with used vises.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: buzz

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 04:27 PM

Hi Ted. Nope, I just rolled the dice on a vise. 🤔. I gamble sometimes, Ted and this wasn’t that horribly expensive. I guess I will see, but it appeared to be a good one....vise jaws aren’t worn, no rounding off of the edges. I hope you and I look as good at age 80-90. But, it still was a roll of the dice, just like lots of other things in life! Plus, I felt so much better when jOe said it looked ‘honest’.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 04:50 PM

Teds response to Jim

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
I’d be very concerned about getting the broken swivel mount repaired. By tightening only one side, you are risking breaking the swivel mount. The vise needs to be fastened properly, from both sides, when it is tightened down in position.

Best,
Ted


Is this another example of Ted not knowing what's he's looking at ?
Posted by: Mike Hunter

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 04:51 PM

I’ll have to look at my Parker, but I don’t think that’s a broken swivel stop mount. I know on Reed vises the factory put a plug in them so you could have it on the right or the left. Parker may have put that boss there for the same reason. All that swivel stop does is keeps it from swiveling, it’s not intended to hold the vise together. There’s a big ass bolt in the center of the vise thru a steel bushing that actually keeps both parts together.

I’ve seen broken vises, but not at that point on quality American vises, believe those parts are cast steel not cast iron, so they would bend before cracking.

Buzz,
Reeds are excellent vises, and pretty darn tough… and repairable. Disassemble the vise, clean all the old crud out. Make sure that the handle turns easily and there are no cracks in the castings. If the jaws don’t line up when closed, no biggie, do the old machinist/gunsmith trick and file them so they are level.

If you need the jaws to be parallel to +/- .0002 for their entire travel, get a milling machine vise like a Kurt or Parlec… but if you need something that will hold parts for general gunsmithing… a Reed is awesome.

PS... Reeds have an oil hole near the handle that oils the front bearing.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 05:09 PM

Originally Posted By: buzz
Hi Ted. Nope, I just rolled the dice on on a vise.

Plus, I felt so much better when jOe said it looked ‘honest’.


"honest"....to me means it was most likely owned by an old fellow a lot like Ted that hardly ever used it.

Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe


I like my vise mounted on the corner of a bench gives you more of a walk around.



For a guy who argues with everything I say, you sure come back and make my point for me often enough.

Remember when I told you that is why my vise is mounted on a section of ram tube? Big difference between me and you is I’m smart enough to figure out how to mount it securely and actually be able to walk all the way around it.

You, ain’t.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 05:39 PM

That how you get your exercise in the winter...


Drinking beer walking around and around the vise.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 09:51 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
That how you get your exercise in the winter...


Drinking beer walking around and around the vise.


Now you are an expert on exercise?

Put the picture of yourself duck hunting up again, and let all the hot air out of that balloon...


You ought to try a good vise, well mounted. A pleasure to get some actual work done with.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike Hunter
I’ll have to look at my Parker, but I don’t think that’s a broken swivel stop mount.


Parkers have a drum brake kind of setup. The wrench on the right side turns a bolt that pulls up a wedge that pushes the 'brake pads' out against the side of the swivel base.

The plug on the opposite side is the hinge that the shoes fulcrum off of. The base and body of the vise are held together by a 1-3/8" head bolt that serves as the axle.




I just looked back at your earlier vise inventory post. That's quite a list of vises
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 11:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike Hunter
Awesome job.... In my mind there is something about using a period vise when working on period guns, especially when the vise was made by a gun company.


Thanks. I agree about the vintage vises. Of course, there are plenty of guys who can't imagine shooting an old shotgun for the same reasons they wouldn't want an old vise. To each his own, I guess.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/12/19 11:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
That looks like a vise set up to do assembly work. .... You aren’t going to do real heavy persuasion work, but, you knew that. I’d be very concerned about getting the broken swivel mount repaired.


I'm hoping to set up my Wilton Tradesman just beside my anvil and forge, and that will do the trick for when I need to bang, bend or break something.

This vise setup is intended for gun, knife, hand tool restoration, and wood work. You're right that the well should help with keeping errant screws, pins, etc from getting away.

As for the swivel, see my reply to Mike. It's an entirely different system than the Wilton. Works like a drum brake.

Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/13/19 06:53 AM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Teds response to Jim

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
I’d be very concerned about getting the broken swivel mount repaired. By tightening only one side, you are risking breaking the swivel mount. The vise needs to be fastened properly, from both sides, when it is tightened down in position.

Best,
Ted


Is this another example of Ted not knowing what's he's looking at ?


BingO'

Ted you remind me of the pesky little mutt that likes to hunch on one's leg.

Don't yOu tire of getting kicked ?
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/13/19 07:15 AM

Some have one, some have two. If you have a broken one, it needs to be fixed. It isn’t hard to do, and I’ve been in plenty of shops where an easily repaired tool is left broken, until it gets worse, or, somebody gets hurt.

jOe, why don’t you concentrate on that subject you understand so well, exercise? Vise and vise mounting don’t seem to be something you understand.

Jim, I haven’t really beat on a vise. I have a small anvil, and a 4” round of some sort of alloy steel that get used for beating on. Accurate love taps can be administered on a vise. If the mount is solid, that is all you are likely to need.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/13/19 07:23 AM


Picked this big anvil up the other day at a neighbors estate sale...Made in the Memphis forge at International Harvestor.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/13/19 07:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

Jim, I haven’t really beat on a vise.


I beat on something I was holding in a Versa Vice 30+ years ago....broke it.

Told my Gunsmith about it he asked if he could have it I said sure.
Next time I saw it Ed Mason had welded the cast metal back together and I'm pretty sure he used it until he died.

A vice is not made to be beaten or for holding things while you beat on them.

Don't think for one minute that even the biggest baddest looking vise can't be broken.


Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/13/19 07:32 AM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe

Picked this big anvil up the other day...Made in the Memphis forge at International Harvestor.


That must be at least a 5 pounder!
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/13/19 07:36 AM

4 incher....for two dollars I couldn't pass it up.
Posted by: Mike Hunter

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/13/19 09:59 AM

I’m a sucker for quality made tools; at one point and time in this country a quality bench vise was considered a basic and essential tool that no man should be without, even if he had to clamp it to the coffee table.

It seems like modern society has lost the respect for quality. Growing up in the 60’s, it was all about quality…”we make the best”, and manufacturers competed to build the best. In today’s society, it all about cost… “We’ll beat anyone’s prices”, “nobody sells for less” it’s a race to the bottom.

Back when I first started equipping my shop, I had an imported vise, lasted about a year before the casting cracked. I started looking for an older American made vise, couldn’t find one to save my life (pre EBay, craigslist etc.). Finally a friend found me a vintage (mid 1940s) 4 inch Columbian swivel vise... since then I find them everywhere….quite often they come home with me…. Fortunately have a very understanding wife, she doesn’t understand my addition to old guns and tools, but accepts it with a half roll of the eyes.

I’ve given away quite a few to friends; friends don’t let friends use crappy vises.

In my shop… a 4 ½ inch Reed is my daily use vise, my son has the Columbian, and there’s another 4 ½ inch Reed for “dirty work” hack sawing, heavy filing etc.

There’s a 5 inch Parker, sitting on the shelf in the back of the shop, I really don’t have a use for it, but I like it too much to part with it. A 5 inch Reed is my farm vise, as noted before, it’s mounted to a steel pole, with a semi-truck brake drum full of concrete as the base, must weigh around 250 lbs… My son uses it for blacksmithing and I use It for repairing farm equipment out in the fields… move it around with the tractor.

Two Reeds in the garage… a 4 ½ inch and a 4 inch.

Got a few of “Spare” vises that I picked up recently… A 4 inch Reed on a swivel base, a 4 inch American Scale & Vise Co. fixed base, and a Wilton Tradesman vise.

So all in all about a dozen vises, and I’m still looking for a 6, 8 or 9 inch Reed.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/13/19 12:49 PM

The big Reeds don't turn up that often. I've seen quite a few Prentiss vises in that size.
I hesitate, even when I see one of those 8" vises at a great price. You still have to get the thing from where it is, to where it needs to be.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Mike Hunter

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/13/19 02:22 PM

Yup... 6 inch Reed: 130 lbs, 8 inch; 250 lbs, no clue on a 9 inch... saw a pic of a 13 inch: 1400+ Lbs.

Gots forklift and trailer... will travel smile
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/13/19 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

Jim, I haven’t really beat on a vise.


I beat on something I was holding in a Versa Vice 30+ years ago....broke it.

Told my Gunsmith about it he asked if he could have it I said sure.
Next time I saw it Ed Mason had welded the cast metal back together and I'm pretty sure he used it until he died.

A vice is not made to be beaten or for holding things while you beat on them.

Don't think for one minute that even the biggest baddest looking vise can't be broken.




So, you finally fess up, and tell us how an ass clown broke one of his clown vises, in a post where you are trying to convince us those clown vises are the best possible vise to consider?

This is rich. I couldn’t have made this up. In a post where some were lamenting the lack of quality, American made tools ( ignoring the fact that Morgan, Reed, and Wilton will happily sell you, through a jobber, NOT Lowe’s, a brand new American vise, as good a vise as can be built) you come through and describe how you busted your toy, And, you think they should buy a toy just like your toy, except the toy they get now comes packed full of questionable Chinese parts.

Whole lot of stupid. Do you read what you post?


Best,
Ted

________________________________________
If you bought a better vise, you’d need a new hammer, not the other way around.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/13/19 10:55 PM

No azz clown Ted Sheet'ferbrAinz I was making a point that a vise is made for holding something you are working on....not to be used as an anvil.

Your big Wilton vise can hold big things....I don't néed a vise to hold big things.

I'm glad you feel the big vise makes up for your lack of craftsmanship.

It's okay Ted.

Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/14/19 05:19 AM

The guy who broke a vise is thinking he should school somebody on craftsmanship. That is rare air. Until yesterday, I couldn’t even say I knew anyone who ever broke a vise. I’ve seen broken vises, but, never a clown who would fess up to it.

You are like a gift that keeps on giving.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/14/19 07:03 AM



Better go back and read the thread azz' clown extraordinaire...

Originally Posted By: keith

A vise is no substitute for a blacksmith's anvil. I learned this the hard way when I broke a good vise years ago, hammering on something with a sledge hammer.


I see you missed this...

That's what happens when you selective read peoples posts...you miss things because it doesn't serve your purpose.

Ready to attack Keith now ?


To be a craftsman you need a little bit of artistic ability Ted...not my fault God didn't shine on you Ted.

Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/14/19 12:34 PM



I beat on something I was holding in a Versa Vice 30+ years ago....broke it.








I can't say I honestly know anybody this stupid.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/14/19 01:06 PM

Can you say dingle'berry...
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/14/19 07:12 PM

Go bust a vise, clown boy....


Best,
Ted
____________________________
Craftsmanship is not beating a part in a vise
until the vise breaks. Make a note of that.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/14/19 07:32 PM

Haaa....afraid to mess with Keith.


Haaaa....haa...ha...ha
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/14/19 08:15 PM

Keith ain’t trying to sell anybody a junk vise like you are, clown boy.

Good to see the parrot vise guys understood clown boys would use their vise, and updated the base to take real bolts. But, I’ll let you in on a little secret.

It ain’t never going to be a Wilton.

And, no matter how many times you park you ass on that seat that says Craftsman, it doesn’t mean you are one.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: buzz

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/14/19 08:53 PM

Hey Ted, I got my Reed 4” vise. Luckily, it’s not a piece of junk. It’s really nice, but deserves a good clean and lube which I intend to do. Reed 204R, a 4” vise. I wanted to show you a photo of my almost 3’ anvil my Dad bough almost 40 years ago, but I don’t know how to post photos. I think it’s Civil War vintage and has seen lots of use and abuse. The Hardy hole is huge. Oh well, it’s a cool old thing. If you hit a hammer on it, it pops right back up. Good forged metal, I guess. I can’t pick the damned thing up, had to use the front end loader of my tractor. Loaded it in my pick up with the tractor and it fell over; the horn poked a hole in the rubber mat bed liner. It’s a real beast, but well used after 150 years or so. I’m guessing it would be the ticket with a huge vise???? PS, Ted, sent you an email with photo of the anvil....it’s huge!
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/14/19 09:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Keith ain’t trying to sell anybody a junk vise like you are, clown boy.

Good to see the parrot vise guys understood clown boys would use their vise, and updated the base to take real bolts. But, I’ll let you in on a little secret.

It ain’t never going to be a Wilton.

And, no matter how many times you park you ass on that seat that says Craftsman, it doesn’t mean you are one.


Best,
Ted


I ain't selling anything...

If yer scared just say yer scared Mr. Azz ClOwn
Posted by: Stan

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/14/19 09:51 PM

I'd like to see a pic of that big anvil too, buzz. Hope Ted can post it for you. Roll her over and tell me what the three digit code stamped into the base says.

How many of you guys know how to look at an anvil and tell it's weight, by deciphering the code stamped in the base of it? Clue ........ hundredweights (112 lbs.), stones (28 lbs., or a quarter of a hundredweight), and pounds.

SRH
Posted by: craigd

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/14/19 10:11 PM

Three feet of anvil? Watch your fingers if you try to roll it over! If it has typical proportions, I'd think it might be north of five hundred pounds.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/14/19 10:58 PM

Big anvil. From Buzz:





Bet jOe could bust it. With his head.

My friend has a similar anvil in his shop. It also belonged to his grandfather. It is mounted to a section of oak tree, maybe waist high, and held down with metal strapping. It is a monster, you need his skid steer to move it. I’ll have to take a picture of it someday.
I don’t know if he still has the Hardy and the Pritchel tools for it.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/15/19 07:10 AM

Your pictures suck Tedward..
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/15/19 07:18 AM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Your pictures suck Tedward..


Another very simple concept that you don’t grasp.

Buzz took the picture. I just put it up.

Don’t you have a vise that needs to be broken? The one you think everyone should own?

The vise that will never be a Wilton?

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/15/19 08:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

Another very simple concept that you don’t grasp.

Buzz took the picture. I just put it up.

Best,
Ted




Same picture Ted the mOron....

Bad as eYe hate to say it Ted...You'z a dumb sum beech...

Posted by: buzz

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/15/19 10:39 AM

Thanks for posting the anvil photo Ted (and jOe). Stan, that thing has a huge metal plate affixed to the anvil feet, so I can’t just flip it over. I’d like to see the code too and understand what it means. I wonder if there’s a date code on that thing? I’d like to know more about it and where it’s been. If only it could speak.....
Posted by: buzz

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/15/19 10:45 AM

Looking at the edges of the anvil I wonder if someone used it as a welding bench? Too bad, but it is what it is.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/15/19 12:25 PM

Kinda looks like a rail road frog plate welded to it.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/15/19 12:38 PM

[/quote]

Bad as eYe hate to say it Ted...You'z a dumb sum beech...

[/quote]

Nice of you to be so generous-with Dave's bandwidth.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/15/19 05:27 PM

Oh well I just call'um like eye see'um.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/15/19 07:10 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Oh well I just call'um like eye see'um.


What do you call an idiot who breaks the vise he thinks is so wonderful?

Best,
Ted


____________________________
Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is that dumb guy?
Posted by: buzz

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/15/19 08:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Oh well I just call'um like eye see'um.


What do you call an idiot who breaks the vise he thinks is so wonderful?

Best,
Ted
A guy that learned the hard way that vises are not meant to be pounded/hammered on. I have to admit I’ve pounded metal on a vise before with a hammer. I won’t do it again and may have gotten away with it. Ted, have you ever ever ever, or never never never hammered on something in a vise....even when you were young??? Now, be honest....Thanks, Buzz

____________________________
Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is that dumb guy?
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/15/19 08:31 PM

Buzz,
Not enough to destroy a part, or, the vise. That, is bad form.

The vocational program at Coon Rapids High School, and, the Junior High were outstanding. By my junior year in high school, I had 4 years of metal shop, 4 years of wood shop, the small gas engines course, 3 years of electrical, a year of drafting, and had just wrapped up auto one, and would complete auto two before summer vacation. Completing auto two meant you had rebuilt a school V8 engine and both a three speed manual and automatic transmission. I was a teachers assistant in the auto shop my senior year. I made my living as a machinist and machine maintenance mechanic until I transitioned into lithography, where I also spent a bunch of years rebuilding equipment, mostly in shops that were down from their hay day.
My shop courses have been the most valuable schooling I received in my entire life.

The teachers saw to it that the tools were well cared for. I’ve broken a few drill bits and taps that I recall. Never broken a vise.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/15/19 08:48 PM

I bet you gaduated cOOn rapids cum lawd'e...

flunked craftmanshift...

And too dang dumb to post a good picture.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/15/19 08:58 PM

Take a picture of your new Wilton.

Might want to clean that fire trap up before you put it in there.

Ah, hell, just keep pounding that parrot.

Best,
Ted


______________________________
Hope that Depends garment fits tighter than your vise mount.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/17/19 07:00 AM

Ted were you ever on Jerry Springer ?

I recall a guy on there that graduated from cOOn Rapids.

His name was Ted.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/17/19 09:53 AM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Ted were you ever on Jerry Springer ?

I recall a guy on there that graduated from cOOn Rapids.

His name was Ted.


No. Were you ever in Playgirl magazine? The April Fools edition?

A parrot is not a Wilton. Keep repeating that to yourself.

Best,
Ted

_________________________________________
Brand X Depends garments. Get ‘em at Lowe’s with
a new, China Wilton.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 07:31 AM

Playgirl magazine...in another post you talked about my penis.

I'm not that kind of feller sweetie.

Your wife know you're a cOOn Rapids switch hitter ?
Posted by: Stan

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 08:35 AM

Back to vises .............

Videos of world renowned Perazzi technician Marcello Giuliani installing new MX 8 hinge pins with a post vise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_6jzMl8kDA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RudIDm41-ao

SRH
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 08:54 AM

Good find. My auto play brought this up after the first video you linked to: https://youtu.be/POheZMmKJRo

Looks like the only vises used at perazzi are post vises.

As I understand it, the only disadvantage of a post vise is that the jaws do not move parallel to one another. Obviously not a prohibitive disadvantage.

Here is a sampling of British gun shops:

Holland & Holland:


Purdey:



Westley Richards:



Atkin, Grant, & Lang:



Boss:




And some Small (British) Gunmaking Shops:

Watson Brothers:


Stephen & Sons:



Bromley & co.


John Hogland:


Longthorne:
Posted by: Mike Hunter

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 09:19 AM

Not sure why they use post vises, aside from the parallel piece that Jim brought up, those vises have exposed leadscrews, I’ve always been under the assumption that vises with covered leadscrews are stouter, and it also keeps swarf/shavings/crap out of the leadscrew/leadscrew nut.

Also notice that they don’t have any swivel vises. I suspect that we may be looking at only one part of the operation, with very specific jobs. Very likely there’s another part of the shop with bench vises.

The only benefit I see here is that the fixed jaw is far away from the bench, allowing one to hang long parts from the vise… and ensuring that it doesn’t hit the work bench.
Posted by: craigd

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 09:45 AM

It has the look to me like they're mounted for somewhat repetitive hand work, the jaw pads seem to have taken sets. They look positioned higher up than if they might be used around a forge, and the craftsmen seem to be taking advantage of a wide working angle around them.

I see an interesting mounting feature, the vise leg looks to be support horizontally off of a bench leg, plenty beefy looking, but maybe an indication that these aren't intended for significant hammer work. I'd bet it's kind of nice not having a toe stubber down there, and lets the folks not have to reach or lean as much.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 10:17 AM

Interesting that the new purdey factory has gotten rid of post vises and uses only Record bench vises. The blocks under the vises are interesting as well.

Also, check out the swiveling post vise shown here in a picture from Stephen & Sons
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 01:24 PM

Originally Posted By: craigd
They look positioned higher up than if they might be used around a forge...



I agree. They are almost all mounted higher than I would have thought: elbow height, but only with the shoulders up and elbow raised a little. On the other hand, they are all also using at least a 4-5" vise, whether a machinist bench or blacksmith post type.

I think the take away is that a gunsmithing vise should be heavy and high to accommodate fine handwork (and the occasional heavier task) with complete steadiness.
Posted by: gunmaker

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 01:38 PM

I concur on the slightly high aspect.

Here’s what I said a few hundred pages ago:
“ I’ve got several vises in my shop, all at or close to elbow level. I do agree that as things get more detailed there is benefit to being slightly above elbow level, for normal work at elbow level, and for heavy work slightly below elbow level. While it’s a very personal thing elbow level is a great place to start, from there put some time on it and modify to suite or have multiple vises at varying heights. Typically we are talking a + or - 2” at most window. Comparing extremes look at the work height of a blacksmiths anvil and watchmakers/jewelers/engravers work height. As work gets higher you’re giving up mechanical advantage for a closer view, more control, and faster shoulder/arm fatigue due to upper body position and tension.

If a guy spends 40hrs a week at a workbench whom should tell him what works...after thousands of hours he’s figured things out.

My main vise is a vintage Rock Island No.52. 4.5” jaws with 9” opening, swivel base, and swiveling rear jaw.”

I’ll add that it is mounted about 1.5”-2” above elbow level with a relaxed stance.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 04:18 PM

Originally Posted By: gunmaker

My main vise is a vintage Rock Island No.52. 4.5” jaws with 9” opening, swivel base, and swiveling rear jaw.”


Not sure if you can tell from the pictures, but "Stephen and Son" uses a setup a lot like your throne-horse for stock work.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 04:43 PM

Both of the Record vises I can see appear to be swivel base vises, and both appear to be the Birmingham version, not the later Chinese version.

I looked at a Reed vise advertised on Craig’s List this past weekend, mostly because it was right down the street. One full turn of the handle before there was any movement on the jaw. Shot. There is a Parker advertised up in Isanti, that appears to have been beaten senseless, and has iron fractured off the back. Guy is convinced it is worth more than the $100 he is asking.

I have a smaller Sears vise, mounted higher on the bench that gets used when I have to get a loupe out to see things.

Happens more than I care to think about.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: craigd

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 06:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Both of the Record vises I can see appear to be swivel base vises, and both appear to be the Birmingham version, not the later Chinese version.

I looked at a Reed vise advertised on Craig’s List this past weekend, mostly because it was right down the street. One full turn of the handle before there was any movement on the jaw. Shot....

It's coincidental how you lined this up Ted. I have an England Record, one loosening turn releases the jaw to slide in or out, then a turn or a little more to cinch up the work, depending. One nice thing about a bigger than apparently needed vise is the mechanical advantage of the screw means someone doesn't have to really lean on it. It's amazing how beat some of these things can get.
Posted by: Stan

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By: craigd
I see an interesting mounting feature, the vise leg looks to be support horizontally off of a bench leg, plenty beefy looking, but maybe an indication that these aren't intended for significant hammer work. I'd bet it's kind of nice not having a toe stubber down there, and lets the folks not have to reach or lean as much.


Similar to how I devised a mount for my old post vise in my gunshop some 20-25 years ago. I realized the importance of getting it up to elbow level, so I just built the whole mounting island for it out of steel, cut floorboards out of the shop floor, dug a hole in the ground beneath with post hole diggers, and set the whole rig in the hole and poured concrete around it. Then I carefully replaced the floorboards around it. Didn't realize at the time how nice it would be to be able to work all the way around it and not stub my toe on the leg. Bottom of the leg on mine is at least 10" off the floor.

Doesn't require a lot of bulk to brace that long leg solidly. It's length works as leverage for stability.

SRH
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 08:14 PM

Originally Posted By: craigd
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Both of the Record vises I can see appear to be swivel base vises, and both appear to be the Birmingham version, not the later Chinese version.

I looked at a Reed vise advertised on Craig’s List this past weekend, mostly because it was right down the street. One full turn of the handle before there was any movement on the jaw. Shot....

It's coincidental how you lined this up Ted. I have an England Record, one loosening turn releases the jaw to slide in or out, then a turn or a little more to cinch up the work, depending. One nice thing about a bigger than apparently needed vise is the mechanical advantage of the screw means someone doesn't have to really lean on it. It's amazing how beat some of these things can get.


Craig,
I didn’t have any luck buying a used vise. I tried for years. Finally bought a new one,

A guy recently had a very newish England Record on Craig’s List, very fairly priced at $90. Nice vise, just couldn’t justify having another large (4”) vise and clearing a spot on the bench for it-I don’t need another mounted to ram tube and bolted to the floor. The sliding jaw is a nice feature, but, given the choice, I’d still go with the Wilton.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: craigd

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 09:13 PM

I think buying a used vise is like buying a used gun. For me, if I go looking for it, I'm in trouble. If I luck into a great vise at a great price tomorrow, I'd probably grab it. My thought, never let the seller know I'm interested, you'd think the 'patina' was a quarter inch of gold.

Last vise I picked up I noticed in a scrap pile when I was picking up a few pieces of steel for something else. I asked the fellow at the yard what he wanted for that old thing, he said he'd take twenty bucks. Not bad for a browned but not rusted or abused Athol. It's a great vise. Recently, I was really interested in a 22lr rifle. It became one of those things that the seller started thinking it was worth its weight in gold. I'll never inquire about that rifle again, there're so many other interesting things out there.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/18/19 11:45 PM

Originally Posted By: craigd
I think buying a used vise is like buying a used gun...


That's true in many ways, I think, including that it is very hard to find an affordable new gun or vise that compares to the quality and craftsmanship of the older ones. Also that one has to take more time in finding a used gun/vise that has been cared for and that does not have serious issues lurking beneath the surface. But when one does find a good old gun/vise, it can be a joy to use.

It's probably a matter of perspective, but I would take my 1892 Henry Atkin boxlock over a modern, machine made, laser engraved shotgun any day. Same for my 1971 AyA 4/53. And I would take my Parker vise (c. 1940s) over a new one as well. The baseline expectation of craftsmanship does not compare. Consider, for example, the retainer on my two vises:



Not only does the Parker have it's name cast into the ring, but the slotted screw seems to be indexed to be vertical when fully seated. Could be accidental, but even the handle is vertical when the vise is fully closed. [Notice, there is a tension screw that allows the handle to be kept at a middle position if desired.]



As for function, although my Parker was actually in pretty bad shape in some respects when I found it, there is essentially no 'play' in the screw and the action is smooth as glass. And the swivel base slides smoothly and locks up tight. My view is that the pride one takes in craftsmanship will be apparent and similar in both the aesthetic and functional aspects of a product.

From a purely practical standpoint, Wilton is essentially the last maker of domestic vises (for US users), and, as of 2019, even the Tradesman is being built in Taiwan. If you want a new USA made Wilton, the starting price is just over $1000 for a C1. As Ted said, you can easily spend 3-4k on a new Wilton.

Here's my tradesman before and after disassembly, clean up, lube and paint. The mechanical aspects of the vise were in great shape except I am going to have to straighten the swivel screw handles and replace a stripped screw in the retainer ring. I think it's going to be a good user




[For the record, I paid $125 (plus $120 shipping!) for my Parker (Facebook marketplace) and $140 for the Wilton (local auction). Both were good deals in my view, especially since I live in a vise-deplete region of the country. For those living in the Northeast or Midwest, good quality vises can be had for much less.]

Posted by: buzz

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 05:30 AM

Nice, Jim! I like vintage stuff too, just because it’s vintage. Great job cleaning up the old ones. I need to do the same with the Reed I bought. I will when it warms up and am also going to make a set of custom 4” lead jaw covers for it when it warms up. My local gunsmith who is deceased now made me a set for my larger craftsman and I use them religiously when I place an action in the vise. Since he’s gone now, I need to make my own. I need to fabricate a form to pour the molten lead into to make the jaw liners. I think I’m going to fabricate the form from angle iron so there’s a right angle. I think I have a plan.....I’m thinking when I pour the molten lead into the angle iron form, the metal form needs to be hot so the lead will flow nicely and fill the form without having defects, but I’m not sure on that? Anyway, that’s my plan.
Posted by: Stan

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 06:25 AM

Agree, buzz. The mould always needs to be hot when casting, to help prevent wrinkles and voids. I'm fortunate not to have to mould mine. I was given several hundred pounds of sheet lead from a remodeled X-ray room, folded into big sheets. I just cut off the right sized pieces and bend them around the jaws. Probably not quite as thick as you want, though.

I thought the wooden jaw face inserts in the Perazzi factory post vises were cool. They seem to have been made with a leaf spring effect to make them "ride out" with the jaws when the vise is opened.

I have a handy set of rubber faced magnetic jaw liners that stay on my post vise. They work pretty well, but the magnetism is not as strong as I'd like.

SRH
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 07:22 AM

Jim,
Both Morgan, and Reed produce vises in the US. You have to go out of you way to find either. Reed pushes their imports.

Neither is cheap.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 07:22 AM

Link to Morgan.

http://www.milwtool.com/v_mach.htm


Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 07:25 AM

I missed that Perazzi photo Stan....

Might been about the time Amerillo Wilton started taking a crap in the thread.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 09:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Jim,
Both Morgan, and Reed produce vises in the US. You have to go out of you way to find either. Reed pushes their imports. Neither is cheap.


I can't find a current Reed made in the USA. And what they're selling now as a 'quality' import does not inspire confidence. Compare the current 4.5" Reed 2C to one from yesteryear. (83# vs 18#, eg). Calling both of these vises by the same name is rather pathetic.



The Morgan looks great. As you said, it's not easy to find, but at $550 + $75 shipping, it looks like a good buy. It would be interesting to compare the old Morgan's with the new. Online, it looks like they kept things pretty similar in the new vises




In a world of profits over quality, I would almost buy a Morgan just to support their staying out of the race to the bottom.

Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 09:18 AM

Originally Posted By: buzz
Great job cleaning up the old ones. I need to do the same with the Reed I bought.... am also going to make a set of custom 4” lead jaw covers for it...


Thanks! I was surprised at how easy the clean up was for the most part. A wire wheel on an angle grinder does wonders. If you don't already know about it, the garage journal vise repair forum has many lifetimes of knowledge accumulated in one thread.

I also made some lead jaws and posted in another thread on here. I didn't get a right angle but I think they do the trick and can be hammered to shape. It was an easy project.

I'm going to reshape them but the width is perfect for a 4.5" vise


Link to my 'how I did it' post
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubb...7092#Post547092
Posted by: Der Ami

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 11:55 AM

I don't have a dog in this fight, but did notice a YouTube Video that shows a large number of vintage vises ( and other tools) in a collection located in Dallas Tx. If anyone is interested it is found in YouTubeAbom79, SNS282: Blacksmith Tools Shop Day. Abom 79 is Adam Booth from Pensacola Fla. There are a great number of different vises of various sizes in the very interesting collection.
Mike
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 12:33 PM

That's an incredible collection... I kept thinking, 'well, now we know where all the old tools went.'

For those interested, the vises and anvils start around minute 18. Click here to start at that point: https://youtu.be/bI11wqTUKls?t=1080
Posted by: gunmaker

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 12:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Woodreaux
Originally Posted By: gunmaker

My main vise is a vintage Rock Island No.52. 4.5” jaws with 9” opening, swivel base, and swiveling rear jaw.”


Not sure if you can tell from the pictures, but "Stephen and Son" uses a setup a lot like your throne-horse for stock work.


I got the concept from my gunsmithing school days.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 12:51 PM

Jim,
The Reed US made vises are at the same jobber:
http://www.gshields.com/vises/?sort=featured&page=2

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 03:02 PM

Those are all imported. The 304n doesn't say specifically but it's been discontinued and replaced by the 704n, from Reed: "Mid-line vises are imported."

And the red 'utility' vises, carrying the 2c number, are imported as well. See the highlighted text in the screenshot:



So the choices really are a $1000+ Wilton, a $600+ Morgan, or a used vise. It's entirely a matter of opinion, but I would choose to go with the vintage piece.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 03:48 PM

Whoever answers the email at Shields thinks they have US built 304s in stock. That ship may have sailed, but, it was recent if it did.

The vintage piece has it’s own look, but, there is a little more than just opinion to consider. The newer Morgan and the Wilton are built of ductile iron. It is far less fragile than vintage iron.

I have looked at lots of cracked vintage vises this week at various online spots, after following this post.The internet wasn’t really a thing when I bought my new vise in 1993, but, my conclusion then, is the same, now.

New, is better.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 03:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

New, is better.

Best,
Ted


Especially when you never use it...

Your brAin is denser that ductile iron....old or new.

Teddy why you go so psycho about a vise ?

All a vise can do is hold something.

Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 04:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

I have looked at lots of cracked vintage vises this week at various online spots, after following this post.


Best,
Ted


lOts my arse.

Well share with us Ted....I think you're full of it.

Haaaa...
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 04:14 PM

Here is one that would look good in your shop:

https://stcloud.craigslist.org/tls/d/saint-cloud-large-prentiss-vise-no-182/7007559744.html

Another:


https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/tls/d/isanti-parker-benchtop-vise-vintage/7021679301.html


10 whole seconds to prove you are full of shit.



Best,
Ted

________________________________
Your Depends garment holds something too, jOe.
Posted by: Mike Hunter

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 04:38 PM

Ehhh.. .I’m gonna disagree with you on the newer is better.
My vises range from 60 – 100+ years old, and they still do the job they were designed to do.

My suspicion is that quality American vises made prior to WWII were cast steel as opposed to cast iron; I’ve seen several that were welded on, where the welds did not show the porosity normally associated with welded cast iron.

Like vintage guns, there is a different feel when using vintage tools. Most of my tools are pre WWII, in addition to vises, I also have a soft spot for cast iron levels, (Google vintage Davis Levels) some are beautiful works of art, and after 100 years still as accurate as any level I can buy from HD or Lowes. And , all have a feel that you don’t get with modern day tools.

I suspect that vintage vise manufacturers quest for quality was their downfall... They built vises to last, and they did, all my vises have outlived their original owners.

Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 04:58 PM

I'm not really looking for an argument Ted. So I'll agree with you... And even make you an offer.

Since that vise of yours is now a 26 year-old, vintage clunker, i would be happy to take it off of your hands.

I'm sure you'll agree with me that since it's so old it's probably not worth too much money.
How about this: For $100, I'll unburden you of that ancient piece of junk. And I'll even cover the shipping.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 05:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike Hunter
Ehhh.. .I’m gonna disagree with you on the newer is better.


I was just trying to think of a single tool manufacturer that improved the quality of their tools from pre ww2 to post ww2 to today. There's no argument that technology has advanced, but not quality. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm having a hard time thinking of any.

That's why for simple tools like chisels and hand planes, for example, the early 20th century products are so coveted. There's no doubt that you have to sift through lots of junk to find the good tools, but a 1919 Stanley number 4 smoothing plane is only rivalled by a 2019 lie-nielsen number four.

For some people, the certainty of buying a lie Nielsen is worth the premium cost. for others, the certainty of buying something new outweighs the desire for highest quality. But for me, I enjoy not only the use of the old hand tools, but also their restoration and preservation.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 05:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein


I bet the original owners all graduated from cOOn rapids
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 05:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Woodreaux
I'm not really looking for an argument Ted. So I'll agree with you... And even make you an offer.

Since that vise of yours is now a 26 year-old, vintage clunker, i would be happy to take it off of your hands.

I'm sure you'll agree with me that since it's so old it's probably not worth too much money.
How about this: For $100, I'll unburden you of that ancient piece of junk. And I'll even cover the shipping.









Jim,
Get in line. You are about number 5. First in line at least offered me what I paid for it. With a smile on his face.

The mount is worth as much as the vice. On that note, I’d hate for you to be disappointed in using a new tool. You have a fine collection. 30 years from now, check with my son.

I did sit down and order a new 3 1/2” Morgan, to replace an aging Craftsman at work. I procure the tools in our department. I’ll let you know what I think of it. Old tools are great, until you are making a living with them.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 05:59 PM

Well, don't say I didn't offer...

I'll bet that Morgan is going to be nice. It looks good online, and the reviews are favorable.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 05:59 PM

Making a living with your vise...haaa.

Must be a meager living considering your vise shows no use.

Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 06:05 PM

... this is getting old and ruining an otherwise informative thread. I would 'ignore' both of you, but you both have useful things to offer when you're not flirting with one another.

I'll summarize the substance of y'all's argument so we can move on:

Ted hates Phillips head screws and thinks brand new Wilton (and maybe Morgan??) mechanic or machinist's vises are the only reasonable option. His Wilton vise serves him well in a number of capacities. He also hates Lowe's. And his 26 year old vise qualifies as brand new.

jOe thinks Ted's vise and pole are too shiny and he hates old bikes and ginormous machines that have bearings to be pressed. He finds the versa vise to be very useful for detail work and has no trouble with it being unstable (meaning that it is not unstable- not that he doesn't mind instability) even for larger gun work, despite the Phillips head screws. He also hates something called coon rapids.

Did I miss anything?


Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 06:12 PM

There is nothing unstable about it.
Posted by: buzz

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Woodreaux
That's an incredible collection... I kept thinking, 'well, now we know where all the old tools went.'

For those interested, the vises and anvils start around minute 18. Click here to start at that point: https://youtu.be/bI11wqTUKls?t=1080
Wow, 750 vintage vises. More than a hobby..... an affectation?? Obsession??. Wonder how many of them are any good? Ted could get a full time job checking them all out for soundness. cry
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 06:15 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
There is nothing unstable about it.


It has been edited for clarity

(Don't tell anyone, but there are Wood screws holding my wooden bench together. And it's very stable).

(Update for clarity #2:. Not my woodworking bench... That one is held together entirely by glue lamination and traditional joinery. There is not a nail or screw anywhere in it)
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 06:15 PM

Brownells thinks its a stable vise...no way they could know more than a cOon rapids cum laude.

https://youtu.be/Nv2b1hW_IpA

Check out the above video by Brownells.

(Ted likes "new" tools here's a new copy of my old American made vise).

Ted listen to the part where he talks about "gentle finess".

Face it Ted your big over grOwn Wilton lacks "gentle finess".

Haaaa.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 06:30 PM

Redundant: I already included in my summary that you like your versa vise and hate the coon rapids.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 06:40 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein


I bet the original owners all graduated from cOOn rapids



Like I said. 10 whole seconds.

Best,
Ted

_____________________________________
Not the diaper-you.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 06:43 PM

You just can't admit that you are wrong about anything can you Ted ?
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 06:45 PM

Also redundant:. I included that you don't like used vises.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 06:47 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
You just can't admit that you are wrong about anything can you Ted ?


I’m not wrong. Check out the bolts holding the parrot vise down in your stupid video.

You learn anything?

Not likely.

Best,
Ted

____________________________________
Call Dewey Vicknair and ask him what he buys from Brownell’s.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 06:48 PM

Redundant again:. You don't like screws for vises. Noted.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Woodreaux
Also redundant:. I included that you don't like used vises.


Those aren’t vises. They are scrap iron. Broken.

Perfect for a guy like jOe, however.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 07:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Woodreaux
Redundant again:. You don't like screws for vises. Noted.


They are bolts with phillips heads...not screws.


My guess is they didn't teach the difference between bolts and screws at cOOn Rapids...

And God forbid "gentle finess".
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 07:41 PM

For real, I'm going to summarize and sign off:

Vise style:

DGJ users have a variety of vises and opinions about the optimal vise for gun work. There is broad concensus that a properly mounted, heavy bench vise is the foundation of a gunsmith's bench.

However, some tasks are better served with a small, low profile vise, and for those who restrict their work to specialized tasks, one specialized vise may be sufficient. For others, owning multiple vises may be necessary or at least expedient.

Traditional gunmakers and professional gunsmiths apparently favor blacksmith post vises or heavy duty bench vises for the majority of stock, action, and barrel work.


Makers and age:

There are two options for buying a new US made bench vise (Morgan, Wilton). And one UK made option (Record) for now. New domestic vises come at premium prices, and can be difficult to source.

Among DGJ users, there are some who are vise enthusiasts, including some with a wide variety of vises. While finding a solid, functional vintage vise can be a challenge, many DGJ users have found vintage vises meet all of their needs and add to their enjoyment of the work.

Desirable vintage brands include Athol, Reed, Parker, Starrett, Rock Island, Wilton, and others. Vise guys seem to favor Reed & Parker. Wiltons are also extremely sought after. Parker vises are made by the same company as Parker guns.

Features:

A swivel base is a necessary asset unless one can otherwise access the vise from the side or rear. A swivel jaw can be very useful but is hard to find. The vise mount is critical to the proper function of the vise. And a 'horse' is crucial for supporting the opposite end of long work, like a stock. A covered lead screw is an indication of quality and helps to maintain the vise.

Replaceable jaws are also important (but but absolutely necessary), especially if the vise is old and has been 'well-used.'

There are a variety of jaw covers. Lead, copper, brass, wood, and leather are all good options depending on the exact task.


Conclusion:

Buy the best bench vise you can reasonably afford for your 'main vise.'

Use it.


Thanks to all of you for your input.
jw
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 07:52 PM

Jim even after Teds personal attack on me at the top of page two it's still an informative thread...

One thing some' learned is that Ted is az crazy as a cOon hunting mussels in a rapid.

Old news to me...

Posted by: keith

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 10:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein


I looked at a Reed vise advertised on Craig’s List this past weekend, mostly because it was right down the street. One full turn of the handle before there was any movement on the jaw. Shot.



Ted, this condition that seems to be excessive thread lash is very seldom an indicator of worn threads on the mainscrew (leadscrew) or the vise nut. If you flip such a vise upside down, you can easily see what causes this condition. There is typically a part on the mainscrew variously called a collar or a horse-shoe clip. This part retains the mainscrew in the vise moveable jaw/slide casting. It is usually installed in a groove on an un-threaded portion of the mainscrew. When you turn the vise handle clockwise to tighten down on something, the large shoulder at the handle end of the screw pushes the moveable jaw closed. When you turn the handle counter-clockwise to open the vise, this collar or the horse-shoe clip, and possibly a washer or bushing, bears on the inside of the moveable casting. If there is too much clearance, it can take perhaps a full turn before the jaw moves in the opposite direction.

In most cases, it was probably like that from the time it was new. Different vise manufacturers use slightly differing designs. But usually a little study will tell you what modifications you need to do if this extra motion is a problem.



A lot of vises do get serious abuse during their lives. It seems to happen a lot in industrial plants where heavy handed employees don't know, or just don't care, because they didn't fork out the money to buy it. Here's a short article showing some of the common ways vises end up broken. I've admitted to beating one decent vise to death. I was bending a piece of steel bar with a sledge hammer. I had been heating it red hot with an oxy-acetylene torch, but let it cool a bit too much, and wailed a bit too hard with the sledge hammer. There was no warning... it just broke.

https://mivise.com/not-break-vise/
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 10:34 PM

Great article...funny how pushing in bearings is a good way to break a vise. I guess that's why they make vises and they make presses.

When I was younger (and I guess dumber) I had a truck drive shaft clamped in my first Versa Vise beating the hell out of when she snapped.

It's called learning the hard way.

Probaly would broke most any vise.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 10:44 PM

Keith,
If that was all that had been wrong with it, it may have been worth investigating.

But, it was shot.

The excessive lash was just part of it. The fixed jaw was narrower than the movable jaw, from years of parts being cut with an acetylene torch. The thing had been cracked, and welded. It needed jaws, and a handle, and swivel parts. If you needed a vise to sit out on a post in the weather, it would have been OK. As long as you didn’t clamp on anything you cared about.

None of my vises have any lash. Never did. I have seen threads worn to the point of too much lash, but, it might take the careers of four or five guys who don’t care about the vise to do it. That is where a lot of these old vises are, right now.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/19/19 11:02 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Great article...funny how pushing in bearings is a good way to break a vise. I guess that's why they make vises and they make presses.

When I was younger (and I guess dumber) I had a truck drive shaft clamped in my first Versa Vise beating the hell out of when she snapped.

It's called learning the hard way.

Probaly would broke most any vise.


When I press a bearing with a vise, it is because it is a little bearing, or, because the bearing is in aluminum, and might be harder to jig in the press. I have a press. But, I can jig in the vise, warm the aluminum with propane, and push the bearing without dropping anything.

I’d use the press with a driveshaft.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/20/19 07:04 AM

Young, dumb and full of cum laude.

Ted the Versa Vise was all I had at the time....and repairing the driveshaft stood between me and walking.

I later aquired a 50 plus pound vintage vise it eventually left here because I'm not one to let grass grow under things I don't use or have a need for.

Now I'm old, dumb and about out of cum laude.

Posted by: buzz

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/20/19 08:17 AM

You just need summa cum laude, like Ted there jOe.
Posted by: Mike Hunter

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/20/19 10:36 AM

Additional comments on covered lead screws:

On vises with an exposed lead screw, there is generally a guide rod that keeps the two jaws aligned, and, to keep the moveable jaw from spinning when rotational (sheer) forces are applied. Think putting a long piece of pipe in the jaws and bending down. All you have is that little ½ or 5/8 inch guide rod to resist those forces, and of course the lead screw. When hammering in the vise.. ie.. Putting pins in place, removing bushings/bearing etc.… all the downward force is transmitted to the lead screw and guide rod. The only bent lead screws I’ve seen were on exposed lead screw vises.

Keep in mind .. these little vises were for the home shop/hobbyist types, and built to a price point.

Just about all manufactures who produced industrial grade vises used square slides and for good reason. As we all know, it’s very hard to rotate a square peg in a square hole, Due to the amount of surface area, square shapes are extremely resistant to rotational forces. On these vises the lead screw basically just “floats” in place, it takes no sheer force or downward force when hammering on parts in the jaws. I have never seen a bent lead screw on one of these…. Don’t know how you could bend one.

In the excellent article posted by keith, most industrial grade vises included a lip or “Dynamic support” as additional support for the slide when downward forces are applied.

There was also a purposeful amount of “slop” machined into these vises, so if some parts did get “tweaked” the vise would still work. I’ve seen several vises with bent slides that worked fine.

Wilton “Bullet” vises deviated from the square slide and went with a round slide, these Wilton vises rely on a small ½ inch key stock to resist rotational forces… Not sure why, as round tubes are designed to rotated in round holes. Possibly Wilton saw the keyway as a sacrificial part, much like a key in shaft/pulley set-ups. Too much force and the key will sheer.

On these large industrial vises, the nut is generally the sacrificial part, cheap and easily replaced.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/21/19 08:14 PM

I don’t believe the key in a Wilton is designed to shear. It is a little too substantial for that. It is also as long as the jaw opening. Not that an enterprising idiot couldn’t do that, if, that was his actual goal. The “slop” is minimal in a round bar, and I’m guessing that is why Wilton builds them that way. None of the square bar vises are as snug, moving in and out.
I do believe many vises end up getting put to uses that they are too small to be expected to do. You should buy one bigger than you think you will need, same as your gun safe, or, air compressor. If you are going to pound on a vise, you really need a post vise, or, an anvil. The anvil on most vises is there to do light straightening, or to separates parts that are interference fit with a love tap or two.
What surprised me this week was not what is not available, but, what still is. You can buy a new US made post vise, a new welders vise, or, an anvil from Milwaukee Tool and Equipment. They have an anvil that weighs 500 pounds, if you need a big one. Brand, spanking, new. The offset engineers vise that was cataloged by Wilton until 2004 (think Salvador Dali designs a vise) is still produced by Dawn in Australia, who can also supply you with a stainless steel vise, or, a forged steel vise. Or, heaven forbid, a vise warranted to be unbreakable.
Most guys buy used, however. Vises, as a rule of thumb, last more than a lifetime.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: gunmaker

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/21/19 08:39 PM

Round holes with well fitting round bars are easy to produce, that’s why Wilton makes them so.
Posted by: Stan

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/21/19 08:47 PM

Good post, Ted. My old Columbian doesn't have an anvil surface. I'm glad. I might be tempted to use it when there is a big, real anvil on the concrete floor 5 feet away.

Another bit of trivia ....... anybody ever seen a little anvil handmade out of a section of railroad rail? They may not be all that useful, but they are cute.

SRH
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/21/19 09:02 PM

I have seen those. I’ve always wondered if acetylene and/or high speed hacksaw blades were ever cheap enough to make the endeavor of producing rail anvils profitable, or, even doable.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Stan

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/21/19 09:05 PM

The one I remember seeing was so many years ago that I'm sure it was done by hand. It had to be a labor of love. I've got enough old railroad iron to make hundreds of them ............ but no incentive. frown

SRH
Posted by: craigd

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/21/19 09:45 PM

I've seen a few of those rail track anvils, and watched part of the process of one being made. The fellow used a 2x72" belt grinder with decent horse power and pretty high revs. The stuff that doesn't look like an anvil grinds away fairly quickly.

I think if it's for using, it might best be used as a specialty bench block. Even though they have a little heft, they bounce around uselessly if the work is struck with more than a little tap. If they're firmly attached to some base, then they lose convenience and may as well be switched out for a conventional anvil.
Posted by: keith

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/21/19 10:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Stan


Another bit of trivia ....... anybody ever seen a little anvil handmade out of a section of railroad rail? They may not be all that useful, but they are cute.



Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
I have seen those. I’ve always wondered if acetylene and/or high speed hacksaw blades were ever cheap enough to make the endeavor of producing rail anvils profitable, or, even doable.

Best,
Ted


I'll try to remember to take a pic of a little one I made at work years ago out of a piece of overhead crane trolley rail. I vividly recall spending almost an entire midnight shift scooting across both bridge girders about 50 feet above the ground, without a safety harness, burning the welded rail clips off to remove the worn out rails. Somehow, this work was considered an Electrician's job. My co-workers were smart, and said they weren't all that good with a torch, and the boss knew I could burn well. The acetylene torch tip was about shot from idiots using it to hammer slag, and there was no replacement in the store-room. When acetylene repeatedly ignited inside the tip, popped, and blew droplets of molten metal down my shirt collar or into my boot tops, I had to be very careful not to jerk away and fall to the floor. There is nothing soft to land on in a steel mill. Fun times I never wish to go back to!

As I said, my little anvil/paperweight was made in my spare time between electrical calls at work. We called those little projects "Government Jobs". I roughed it out with a somewhat better acetylene torch, and ground it close to finished shape with the biggest bench grinder I ever used. Finished it with files and emery cloth. All you have to do is cut, grind, and file away everything that doesn't look like an anvil.

I can't imagine doing this cheap enough to be worthwhile, but it served to entertain me. The vast majority of little salesman sample anvils were cast, and investment casting would probably be the way to go today. I did some electrical work at a small family owned foundry that is in a neighboring town about 15 years ago. Interesting to see, but the casting floor was no place I'd want to spend a lot of time... hot, dirty, and dangerous. They cast a lot of smaller items, but also had a 100 ton electric furnace, and produced up to 90-plus ton cast steel hubs for huge wind generators. I entertained the thought of contracting them to cast anvils and black powder cannon barrels as a sideline, but life and my job got in the way.
Posted by: RHD45

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 12:59 AM

Getting back to vises. I have a Wilton,Emmert and Tucker pattern maker vises that swivel 360 degrees and have different jaws for different applications.I doubt these could be improved on altho' a bit pricey.I had a 5 inch Wilton bullet that was used for 30 years by a top notch stock maker but ended up selling it as I really like being able to rotate my work.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 07:13 AM

Wilton, then, and now, will sell you the swivel and base for a round bar. Pretty sure Reed and Morgan will, too.
One thing Morgan doesn’t have is smooth jaws. Easy enough to make, on the surface grinder, with a set of serrated jaws.
Agreed, more than one vise, in more than one size, is best.
Best,
Ted
Posted by: RHD45

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 07:36 AM

Pattern makers vises swivel so the top becomes the bottom as if you were turning a steering wheel and not the usual way as in the front goes to the back. I hope that is clear.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 10:42 AM

I ran up on this Wilton vise on ebay...put it in my watch list and the guy offered it to me for $39.99.

ebay

Just passing it along
Posted by: RHD45

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 12:27 PM

Well, there are Wilton vises and there are Wilton vises. The spread in Wiltons is kinda like the spread in L.C.Smith shotguns.You have the Fulton and then there are the A3 and Deluxe grades.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 12:47 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I ran up on this Wilton vise on ebay...put it in my watch list and the guy offered it to me for $39.99.

ebay

Just passing it along




Dawn, an Australian tool manufacturer, made some models of Wilton vises back in the day.

That appears to be one of them.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Geo. Newbern

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 01:38 PM

With all the wrangling here about vises, I figured I'd better go see what kind of vise I have because all I could come up with from memory is it is mostly red in color. I am deeply concerned that I may be among the members here who are under-vised.

After inspection, it turns out I have a Columbian 3 1/2 inch. It is mounted at the front corner of my work bench with carriage bolts. I've had it for fifty years or more and haven't broken it yet.

How about it experts? Am I sufficiently vised?...Geo
Posted by: RHD45

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 02:29 PM

Not every one needs a Wilton bullet or pattern makers vise or at the highest end, a Bugatti.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 07:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
With all the wrangling here about vises, I figured I'd better go see what kind of vise I have because all I could come up with from memory is it is mostly red in color. I am deeply concerned that I may be among the members here who are under-vised.

After inspection, it turns out I have a Columbian 3 1/2 inch. It is mounted at the front corner of my work bench with carriage bolts. I've had it for fifty years or more and haven't broken it yet.

How about it experts? Am I sufficiently vised?...Geo


You have one vise?

Best.
Ted
Posted by: craigd

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 07:25 PM

Only one vise, but he has three Bugatti’s.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 07:39 PM

Columbian vise became part of Wilton some time ago, and they always had good, better and best vises prior to that.
A 3 1/2” vise was all my Dad ever needed, would be more than my younger sibling would ever need, and would be what I use up on the bench, doing detail work or when I am using a loupe to see really fine stuff. My Momma bear vise (mid size) is 3 1/2”.

A guy could do worse than a Columbian 3 1/2” vise.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: keith

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 07:44 PM

Originally Posted By: craigd
Only one vise, but he has three Bugatti’s.


Three bug eyes? Wow, Democrat Impeachment Chairman Adam Schiff only has two bug eyes. I think he may really be Marty Feldman:







Posted by: craigd

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 07:59 PM

I suppose I could go on and on about how much I hate him, but in the spirit of bipartisanship, I’ll look for some positives. It’s his best feature? The lighting was bad? Global warming is making them like testicles? I dunno?
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 09:16 PM

Nice little vise for home handyman projects:


http://www.benchvisejaws.com/millscott-13-jaws-1480-lbs/#PhotoSwipe1574475098601

1400+ pounds.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: keith

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/22/19 10:23 PM

Now that's a big vise. You probably don't have to clamp things in it to hold them, because it has enough mass to have its' own gravitational field.

That is even bigger than the vise an old friend of mine "borrowed" from a ship when he was working in a shipyard, when I was in college. He asked me to come over and help him move something into his Dad's basement. He popped the trunk lid of his old Pontiac Ventura, and this huge vise pretty much filled the trunk. We used an engine cherry-picker to get it out, and about killed ourselves getting it into the basement workshop. I asked him how in hell he managed to get it off the ship. He simply said, "Don't ask. The old man wanted a bigger vise, so this is what I got for him."

I've been in a lot of steel mills, large factories, machine shops, fab shops, etc., and it was by far the largest vise I've seen. I wasn't into vises back then, so no recollection who made it.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/23/19 09:58 AM

Many visemakers cataloged 8, 9, and 10” vises. But, I don’t think they sold too many of those. A 200+ pound tool can be unhandy.
A friends grandfather had a 8” Prentiss. When the old guy died, it didn’t sell at the auction. I think it ended up in a pile of scrap. I could have had it for nothing.
But, it was beat pretty hard, and was more than I weighed, or, even more then I weigh now.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/23/19 10:55 AM

That's a monster
Posted by: craigd

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/23/19 03:38 PM

I didn't notice the covered pictures of the vise earlier. They give a look at how it was built. A stout piece, that's interesting to see the thought process, but it completely ruins the mystique.

I thought the Milwaukee Tools info sheet on the Morgans is interesting. As the jaw width goes up, it's logical that the weight would go up. But, when the jaw width gets to five inches and up, there's a disproportionate jump in weight. Bigger isn't always better, but once one of those bigger ones are mounted decently, things must feel rock steady, compared to a six inch big orange special on a workmate.
Posted by: Mike Hunter

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/24/19 08:06 AM

I imagine the 6 thru 9 inch vises were mostly for industrial settings: shipyards, rail yards etc. I also suspect that with the reduction of American heavy industry, many have been scrapped. I may not have a use for one, but I really want one smile
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/24/19 11:04 AM

Originally Posted By: craigd
I didn't notice the covered pictures of the vise earlier. They give a look at how it was built. A stout piece, that's interesting to see the thought process, but it completely ruins the mystique.

I thought the Milwaukee Tools info sheet on the Morgans is interesting. As the jaw width goes up, it's logical that the weight would go up. But, when the jaw width gets to five inches and up, there's a disproportionate jump in weight. Bigger isn't always better, but once one of those bigger ones are mounted decently, things must feel rock steady, compared to a six inch big orange special on a workmate.


Every printshop I ever worked in had a half assed excuse for a vise lagbolted to someone else’s idea of a work bench. I lived with a well mounted, but, small, Sears 4 1/2” utility vise (think “Sears” branded, not “Craftsman”) until I found myself in the middle of a 1971 442 restoration. Building the mount took some expense and effort, as did ponying up for a new vise. I did not want the big vise on the bench, no way, no how.

But, In those thirty years since, I have never looked back and wished for something less.

The Sears has been relocated to where I work. It is better than the vise they had when I got there.


Best,
Ted.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/25/19 07:47 AM



Here's my anvil...4"x4". It's a rail road car side bearing.
It lays on its side at four points between the trucks and the rail car body. It carries the entire weight of a rail car.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/26/19 03:48 PM

I have an anvil, and a round:



My Father (it was his, no idea from where it came) advised to not mount the anvil down, lest you be tempted to beat things harder than they deserved. I never did. It is steel, not iron, has no markings on it, and is not all that user friendly in shape, long and narrow. I’ve started pins moving or going home with it, and that is about it.

The round is a 3 1/2” round by 5” section of 4140 chromoly solid, that doubles as a door stop, when I need to move some air through the shop.

As I’ve gotten older, I have fewer uses for either, and fewer things that need more than a light love tap with a small ball peen.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: craigd

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/26/19 10:51 PM

Ted, your anvil is the classic train track shop made anvil. The smaller size would have me guessing that it was from a smaller track like found in mines for the carts, or maybe overhead tracks for something like commercial sliding doors or some other factory overhead material handling system.

My 'anvil' is a 5+ by 5+ inch hardened post that's around two hundred pounds by itself. I made a steel base for it that has six bags of shot in it, and it's drawn tight together as one unit with chain. All together, it's a little over four hundred pounds. Nice rebound, no hopping around or vibration, small foot print.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/27/19 11:12 AM

Craig, I had considered that, but, dismissed it, mostly because I didn’t give any thought to smaller rails. It didn’t seem likely that someone had made it from regular train track. Good eye you have there.
I imagine you could use any kind of shot to dampen a mount, but, lead would be hard to beat. I figured it wouldn’t rust, and I could buy it reclaimed from my local club, 1 mile north of me.
The vise is about 90 pounds, and I’d hazard a guess the mount filled with lead shot and some oil approaches 400. The whole thing is bolted down with concrete anchors.

I’d hate to back into it with the car.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/27/19 02:46 PM

Although I signed off of the vise discussion, I couldn't help but join in the anvil talk. I recently picked up this 1897 180# Fisher. It's mounted to a section of water oak with wheels that don't touch the ground unless they are engaged. Plenty solid and mobile.




I used it to straighten the handle of my vise, as you can see. It's probably overkill for gunsmithing but it will keep me from being tempted to use my vise as an anvil.

My first real project is going to be making tongs.






Posted by: Recoil Rob

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/27/19 04:41 PM

I have a 6" American made Yost on the bench in the garage, got it new a few years back for about $200 shipped when someplace in the Midwest was clearing out stock. UPS guy had a fit.

It's overkill for gun work but some other jobs have necessitated it.

I have a 4" Yost with rear swiveling jaw in the basement for gun work. That's pretty worn out though, have to turn the handle about 3/4 turn before the jaws moves. It's over 50 years old, doubt they have parts for that.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/27/19 07:23 PM

I know that look from the delivery guy. The Wilton came bolted to a small skid, with a cardboard double wall box around it. The guy grunted it off the truck, and the box looked like they shot it out of a cannon to get it to the truck.
Dude dropped it off at the end of the drive. Wouldn’t help me get it to the shop. I was thirty years younger, so it wasn’t a big deal.

A 6” vise, built in USA, at two bills, was a great buy. Even a few years ago.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/28/19 08:58 AM


I remember the excitement when my new Wiburt Versa Vice came....

I believe the cost on it about 25 years ago was close to 2 bills.
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/28/19 10:36 AM

I was very excited the day I got the notification that my Parker arrived, until I found it in the carport....



Looked more like a Butterball turkey than a box. Thankfully no broken parts.


Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Posted by: Recoil Rob

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/28/19 11:12 AM

Just came back to me that when the 6" Yost was delivered about 4-5 years ago) it came in the factory shipping box. Somewhere along the way it was dropped on the handle which was bent. Yost replaced it though, under warranty.
Posted by: Recoil Rob

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/28/19 11:15 AM

Just came back to me that when the 6" Yost was delivered about 4-5 years ago) it came in the factory shipping box. Somewhere along the way it was dropped on the handle which was bent. Yost replaced it though, under warranty. 118#'s shipping weight..


Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/28/19 01:35 PM

I don’t believe a single Yost vise is made in USA at this point. When I bought my Wilton, you could still buy a Starrett Athol vise that was built here, but, that is over now as well.
Pretty much down to the remaining Reed machinists vise on the shelf at Greenshields, Milwaukee Morgan’s, which Greenshields is the jobber for as well, and Wilton. Only the top end vises from those companies are made in USA.
I’ve got a new, 3 1/2” Morgan USA swivel vise coming, will end up on a bench either here, or, at work, depending on what I think of it.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Woodreaux

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/28/19 02:22 PM

Give us a review of that Morgan when it arrives and you've had a chance to put it through the paces
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/28/19 11:53 PM

Well, couple things to chew on....

The Wilton 3” is a 25 pound vise. The 4” Wilton is 50. There is not a 3 1/2” Wilton. The 3 1/2 “ Morgan is 35. Those are the weights of the non swivel versions, which, seems to give a better grasp of what you get in a vise. The weight of the swivel is not useful in comparison. But, I sprung for a swivel vise to put on a bench, not on a post. My gut feeling on a vise is if you have two identical jaw widths, with similar opening, the heavier vise is the one you want. As Craig noted, weight spirals off the chart as the size of the vise goes up, and I want a smaller vise, higher on a bench.
Both of the Wilton’s are hundreds of dollars more. That doesn’t mean a comparable Morgan is cheap, they are not. I expect the Wilton will be a more precise vise, but, will hold judgement until the Morgan is here. I have viewed plenty of older Chicago Morgan vises, the Milwaukee version is identical, but, newer. Better material than the pre 1950s version. With any luck, it will have improved precision of manufacture.

We will see.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Mike Hunter

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/29/19 09:08 AM

Ted

You've brought up precision in relation to bench vises. Can you please expound on what you mean as far accuracy/precision and why it's important in a bench vise.

Mike
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/29/19 10:30 AM

I like the reaction jaw to move straight in and out, with no oscillation of the jaw at all, on the way in, and out.This keeps things square in the jaws when they are clamped. I also like the reaction jaw to move instantly when the vise handle is turned, a sloppy handle makes it tougher to get things clamped when you are jigging things up in the jaws. I probably do a bit more fabrication with my vise then most guys, but, if you spend time with a file working parts in a vise, or, polishing small parts, it is easier and quicker in a tighter vise. The Wilton vises have that precision, most other vises do not. A fair point is a utility vise in a maintenance shop might not need that precision, but, it doesn’t hurt a thing if it is there. Most maintenance shops don’t have great vises installed, however.
I’ve seen Japanese copies of round bar vises that come close, and the York vises, built in Europe, do, too.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: craigd

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/29/19 02:27 PM

A frustrating vise issue can be when using the metal jaws. Some of them have a slight taper to compensate, but cheaper vises can spring out a little and only hold a piece along the bottom edge of the jaws. With soft jaw faces and using post vises, it’s a non issue.

I had a made in Japan craftsman vise that I gave to my brother a good while ago. In general, they were pretty nice for being in the affordable category.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/30/19 09:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
I probably do a bit more fabrication with my vise then most guys, but, if you spend time with a file working parts in a vise, or, polishing small parts, it is easier and quicker in a tighter vise.


I'd love to see pictures of this work.

Look you've trashed me and trashed my vise and workbench...not having a clue as to what you are even looking at.

Do you think that someone could checker ivory or wood in a vise that moved ?

The miles' of detail work that's went through my Wilburt vise would astound you Ted.

Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/30/19 10:39 AM

To begin with, you have seen some of the fabrication I have done. Do you think you go to Lowe’s to buy a vise mount like the one that sits under my Wilton?

I doubt you recognize fabrication when you see it.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/30/19 10:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
To begin with, you have seen some of the fabrication I have done.


Don't get mad but...the only "fabrication" I've witnessed has been in your mind.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 11/30/19 10:56 AM

Like I pointed out, you don’t recognize it when you see it.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: crossedchisles

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/04/19 05:28 PM

Dont forget to cast some soft lead jaw-covers !!! (Thats some nice "Kit" Ted......I built a similar rig when I had my 'Disabled VN Veterans training program (Worked well with the Wheelchairs) those poor Bas**rds lost their limbs @ 19 & 20 yrs old now they are in their60s !!!luv. C/C
Posted by: Der Ami

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/04/19 05:50 PM

Crossedchisels,
If you were running or helping in the program, thanks for helping the wounded warriors; if you were in the program, thanks for your sacrifice.
Mike
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/04/19 06:41 PM

David,
Someone who is disabled, but trying to learn to be a productive craftsman deserves a lot of respect. Thank you for your efforts toward that end. A good mount for the vise would be an excellent start.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/09/19 09:57 AM

Ted maybe you could help the mentally disabled learn to fAbricate things in their minds like you can....
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/09/19 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Ted maybe you could help the mentally disabled learn to fAbricate things in their minds like you can....



Using you as the best example, teaching the mentally disabled is tough work.

You have been here YEARS, and haven’t learned a damned thing....


Best,
Ted

_________________________________
An idiot. But, our idiot.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/10/19 06:13 AM

Special Ted...

Vala'dick torean cOOn Rapids high.

Majored in environmental fabrication.











Specialty crushing Aluminum cans in his dreAm vise.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/11/19 04:13 PM

Originally Posted By: crossedchisles
Dont forget to cast some soft lead jaw-covers !!! (Thats some nice "Kit" Ted......I built a similar rig when I had my 'Disabled VN Veterans training program (Worked well with the Wheelchairs) those poor Bas**rds lost their limbs @ 19 & 20 yrs old now they are in their60s !!!luv. C/C


I do declare, the mountain clown from Tennessee seems to have a bad case of butt hurt.

You have to understand, clown boy, an actual skilled pro isn’t going to have time for a dinky parrot vise, like yours.



Best,
Ted
Posted by: keith

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/11/19 09:05 PM

If you put your head in a big enough vise, and squeeze your cranium between the jaws, you can do enough self-inflicted brain damage to seriously think that people will actually believe that the finished stock in these photos came from the blank shown.

A small vise may not be able to make you this severely brain damaged.

A small vise also may not be sufficient to squeeze out all traces of honesty and integrity.

Use enough gun... use enough vise! And keep flailing Bob.

Originally Posted By: Bob Cash


1a)

Rotate 180 degrees

1b)

Work with the left 2/3's

1c)

Note the rings, rays and feathers

1d)



2a)

Rotate 180 degrees

2b)

Work with the right 2/3's

2c)

Again, note the rings, rays and feathers

2d)
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/14/19 07:48 AM

Originally Posted By: keith
If you put your head in a big enough vise, and squeeze your cranium between the jaws, you can do enough self-inflicted brain damage


Ted must have been challenged in skOOl to a head squezzing...
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/14/19 09:03 AM

Clown boy. Parrot vise. Dinky. Phillips head anything. Broken vise. Butt hurt. Old door, now a bench. Reminds me of a Christmas song.

These are a few of my favorite things.

Best,
Ted

________________________________________
Not.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/15/19 10:49 AM

If you could only go back to cOOn Rapids high and just take one last crank....
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/15/19 11:48 AM

Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
If you could only go back to cOOn Rapids high and just take one last crank....


Mostly butt hurt. Get busy with building a new mount for that spiffy China Wilton they build for guys like you.

__________________________________
Big Christmas sale on tools, at Lowe’s.
Posted by: keith

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/15/19 04:35 PM

So Ted and jOe, how do you think the thin skinned crybabies and Doublegunshop censors missed this thread when they cried to Dave to lock down threads that get their panties all bunched up?

I was really hoping to get the answer about how Bob Cash's feather crotch black walnut was transformed into thin-shelled walnut with completely different grain and figure.

Total Stock Blank Transformation: How is it done?

Some small minded people are just against the pursuit of knowledge!
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/15/19 06:40 PM

I think Dave enjoys seeing Ted Shiett'fer'brains showing the world how crAzy he is...
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Best Bench Vise - 12/15/19 07:28 PM

Crazy about good tools, and the work that happens with them, maybe. Only thing I ever witnessed dufffus post about, that he seemed to have any actual firsthand knowledge about, was scotch.

He had more money is booze then I have in my vise. He might know good booze, but, he wouldn’t know a good vise if he dropped it on his toe.


Best,
Ted