Hello. I'm investigating an old Sauer & Sohn double rifle, and I'm courious what information you can dig up.
Pictures will be added when I have time.
The rifle is a side by side sidelock with hammers and a underlever (opens sideways).
The s/n is 30xxx, which I believe place it back to 1885-86. The flats on the barrel has two different large crowns on the left side, and have a quite large "wild man with club" .
It's also stamped Sauer, Suhl, GUSS ST. , a small crown with sss below, and last a single small eagle. The barrels has in addition two small and one a bit larger wild man, and also some numbers which is not the serial number. One of them are 5794. If this is a year stamp, it would disagree with the S/n... what do you think?
Also I have tried to find pictures oc similar rifles, but with no luck. How uncommon is this rifle?

How did you determine the cartridge? A British 500/450 #1 Express or ???

Photos of the stampings on barrels and water tables should be very helpful.

Halfa double; yes you are of course correct.
I did a mistake. Seems like I never will get the imperial calibers right the first time... I did a wax cast of the chamber, and the measures I get correspondes very close to the 500/450 #1express. The book I used when looking up, is "The handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions"

[img]https://pin.it/1y66ajo[/img]

[img]https://pin.it/732KOyq[/img]

[img]https://pin.it/1WeWGeq[/img]

[img]https://pin.it/23rWcfi[/img]

I'm guessing you have to do some kind of a permit on the pics so that others (non flickrs) can see them.

>>Guss St.<< is going to be Guß Stahl. The Wildmann with a Staff stamps may be Quality stamps in addition to Sauer Process Marks.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Guss Stahl= fluid steel
Mike

Thank you very much for the information about the steel.
Ihave reloaded the pictures to pinterest, and hopefully they are possible to see now.

Difficult to see up-close as I am not a pinterest subscriber, but the Imperial Eagle is a Sauer process mark as is the Wildmann with a Staff. Is it a Monobloc? Looks to be some odd bands near the end of the chamber? Jones Underlever lockup / „Lancasterverschluss”.

Serbus

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
I can't get a very clear of the gun either, but I see the "bands" you mentioned. They are in the same location and have the same look as those used to hide the barrel joint in a monobloc gun, as you wondered. The barrel set on a German rifle of this age and action type would normally be expected to have been joined by "bundling". If the gun were re-barreled to correct badly corroded barrels or for preference, the work would be done by "sleeving". In this case, the same type bands would be used to hide the joint. A "hands-on" inspection or much better photos, or both will be necessary to determine what happened. If the gun was re-barreled, the original barrel proof marks would likely have gone with the old barrels and new proofs would be applied to the new. In the absence of good info, this is only conjecture.
Mike

Hello.

Do you have a better suggestion for where to upload pictures?
I don't do this too often, so I have no clue what the best option is.
In my photos, I can see a solder line between each barrel and the middel piece (band) with the doll head.

Btw, when investigating this rifle, I couldn't find any signs of rebarreling. The rifle are in good shape, and seems to have been used very little during it's life.

[img]https://pin.it/6kALsgQ[/img]

[img]https://pin.it/3mVk458[/img]

[img]https://pin.it/6A1K6TE[/img]

The "bands" Raimey spoke of is a sign of either rebarreling or the initial barrel construction being on a monobloc, which would be a little unusual for a rifle of that age. As I said above, to determine which is the case would require either a "hands on" inspection or much better photos, otherwise it would only be conjecture. It is unfortunate but the additional photos don't help matters much. It would be expected that a determination will be difficult, the people that usually do this work are not called a "master"( meister) for nothing.
Mike