I'm to lazy to look up the .33WP thread but have been trying to get another .33 mould. For the last couple years I've been using my .33-Pope mould and wanted to get a modern one to use.
The first mould I ordered was a disaster. Last winter I heard that David Mos was back making moulds so I gave him a try. I sent him some of the Pope bullets and got a mould from him. It seemed to cast good bullets once it was up to temperature but just takes a long time. Plus it weights three times what my Pope mould does. Why are modern moulds so big?
Off my soapbox and back to shooting. It was cool and light rain this AM perfect shooting weather, I like to shoot when the conditions are like that and I have the range to myself ;-).
First shot was a little low changed the scope and fired five from the fouler box which are .2 grain different than the keepers.
5-.830"
Next was the good bullets 5-.458"
Another five shots in .615", rain was picking up so I fired a ten shot @ .815".
Happy camper, fired up the rest of the 30-30's so I can pull the barrel off the 94-64.
Not much interest in Schuetzen around here. Would like to talk and share ideas with other plain-base lead guys. Gee, I just noticed I misspelled Mos and only three letters.
Went out yesterday and started at 200 yards. First group there was not even a breeze, dead calm. Fired one five-shot group. Wind picked up and everything went to heck. Next two were 1.66" and 1.75" so moved to 100 yards and tried a different lube.
Looking good there, Michael. Details on your rifle and load?
I was out with my Ruger No. 3 Schuetzen this morning. Nothing good to report...full case head separation on an older Starline 32-20 case about 1/2" from the head. Shot was about 2" low out of the 3/4" group at 100 yards. Came home & fully stripped out the action and cleaned powder fouling out. The Ruger is in .308" 32-20 with a 1-12" twist Remington Sendero contour barrel from Dan Pedersen, was testing fixed ammo using a plain base Lyman 311299, cast about 30-1 so it weighs about 217 gr. 12.4 gr Alliant 300MP, Rem 7 1/2 primer. Back out tomorrow!
David
The 33 1 6/10 WP is a 357 Maxim necked to .33 caliber, barrel by Ron Smith, Breech seated 1/16" ahead of the case, Federal 100 pistol primers and my own lube, 11grians of AA No.9 no wad. Bullet mix is 20-1 lead-tin, all the same weight, pan lubed.
At 100 yards I tried my old Alox-Beeswax lube,
0.665 for 5
0.480 5
0.390 5
0.675 5
0.670 8 of my foulers
What's going on with the head separation? I've had collapsed cases in my schuetzen rifles but not head separation.
32-20 brass is not noted for strength, even Starline. The gas laws are still in force. Pushing a 214 grain bullet down the barrel with a very small case will generate a lot of pressure, even if the load is relatively mild. David's bullet was designed with the .30-40 and .303 Brit in mind.
Nothing exciting to report today,
Tried my old Alox-Bwax lube and some older Pope and Bud Welsh bullets. I hope this is readable, first five at 200 yards then two at 100 yards.
Red is control group with stuff I know works.
6/13/11 50 1-5 AA#9 11 Fed 100 No 1/16" Mos 223.0 Alox 5 1.85
6/13/11 50 1-5 AA#9 11 Fed 100 No 1/16" Mos 223.0 Alox 5 1.66
6/13/11 50 1-5 AA#9 11 Fed 100 No 1/16" Mos 223.0 Alox 5 1.072
6/13/11 50 1-5 AA#9 11 Fed 100 No 1/16" Mos 223.0 Alox 5 1.73
6/13/11 50 1-5 AA#9 11 Fed 100 No 1/16" Mos 223.0 MP1 5 0.895
6/13/11 50 1-5 AA#9 11 Fed 100 No 1/16" Welsh 227.0 MP1 5 0.925
6/13/11 50 1-5 AA#9 11 Fed 100 No 1/16" Pope 218.6 Alox 5 0.457 1-30 Old bullets
32-20 brass is not noted for strength, even Starline. The gas laws are still in force. Pushing a 214 grain bullet down the barrel with a very small case will generate a lot of pressure, even if the load is relatively mild. David's bullet was designed with the .30-40 and .303 Brit in mind.
True...and I'm using loads a little bit lighter than those intended for the .32 Miller Short.
That particular case had been reloaded about 45 times, it was from my original batch which had been retired, but grabbed in error when I went out the other day. Primer pockets are not as snug as the new batch, either.
David
Nice and sunny today but breezy (alibi) tried some SPG this trip. I have two lubes I make plus SPG that I try on any new bullet.
Did I mention the wind, two five shot at 200 yards 1.6 and 1.5.
Set out the wind flags and manage to squeeze a 246 out of a schuetzen target.
Moved to 100 and fired a 10-shot into .648" so not a bad morning.
Michael, Is that 50/50 Alox-beeswax you're using, or the Schuetzen lube, which is 75% Alox??.. ...MIKE...
Mike,
Back in the 1970's when I first got interested in the Schuetzen rifle I tried several commercial Alox lubes as they came on the market. None worked very well so I bought a gallon of Alox 213-F and some beeswax and made my own. I've been adding to the lube all these years and it still does the job when the temperature is below 75.
The most important thing I have learned about the Alox-Bwax is never over heat it. I always use a double boiler and melt the lube in hot water. I also pan lube which works well for me.
That's the same kind of answer I get from my wife.What are the proportions??? ...MIKE...
50-50 Alox Bwax, my first batch had a little steam cylinder oil in it but ran out that about twenty years ago.
Another morning at the range, not getting much work done around here ;-).
Had a heck of group going until the wind came up and with my new flags it still double the group.
Every since I started breech-loading with this rifle I've kept a database on it and found that,
For 420 shots at 100 yards with a combination of both five and ten shot groups the average is .7508".
For 95 shots at 200 yards both five and ten-shot groups the average is 1.456".
So I guess I can say this is a 3/4 MOA rifle.
So I guess I can say this is a 3/4 MOA rifle.
Yep. I think that makes the bar just fine.
Nice shooting.
Brent
PS. What is the rifle? I'm not able to follow the thread - the server is crapping out at the moment. -
-- never mind. Server is back
Michael, 50/50 is the NRA formula, also Javalina. The 255BW/75%ALOX never fails, unless, like you said, don't over heat it. ...MIKE...
Thats 25%BW/75%ALOX, sorry.
I got tired of trying to chase down bees wax and started using one pound canning parafin, one pound vaseline and one tablespoon Bonanza case lube. I've use it for all my plain base lead bullets (pan lubed) with good results.
There must be hundreds of bullet lubricants, yours sounds like the Darr lube.
Javalina is superposed to be 50/50 Bwax and Alox but it just flat does not work for me yet my own mix works great.
When I work with any new mould I try at least three or four different lubes, My Alox Mix, what I call MP1 and mix of my own and SPG. More times than not the Alox-Beeswax is the one.
When I bought the gallon of Alox I also bought a supple of Beeswax. I'll never run out of ether and I know when I add to the batch I'm using the same ingredients.
The only right lube is the one that works for you.
What do you guys pay for beeswax?
I have bees and I tend to give away the beeswax as it is a pain in the rear to clean.
Brent
Quite a range of prices there. Seems to be an unsettled market to be sure.
There must be hundreds of bullet lubricants, yours sounds like the Darr lube.
Your correct Mike. I used to use Emmert lube but forgot the formula. Also had some lube made from bees wax that developed some type of fungus... still worked OK. Some guys get pretty creative with there formulas. At one shoot I was at the guys lube smelled like "Saturday night in Waldron, Arkansas" I think it had lipstick in it.
Probably chapstick actually. Chapsticks of various types can make some very good lubes. One I liked was Minuteman lube. It was green, pepperminty, doubled for a chapstick when needed, and it shot really well. Not sure what was in it, but some sort of lip balm was supposed to be part of it.
Buck Emmert's Lube
1750 grains Beeswax
1368 grains Crisco Shortening (White)
328 grains Crisco or Wesson Vegetable Oil
Rounded this up off the net, I have no idea if any of it's right.
Bullet Lube Recipes
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Ideal Handbook #15
From the Ideal Handbook, ca. 1904:
Recipe #1: Three parts beeswax to two parts cylinder oil
Recipe #2: Vaseline with enough parafin as required to harden it
Recipe #3: Japan wax with sperm whale oil to soften it
Notes:
'Japan Wax' is the wax of the carnauba tree. Commonly used as ski wax.
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Horace Kephart's Lube
From the Ideal Handbook, ca. 1904:
"Melt over a slow fire three parts of of crude ozocerite and two parts vaseline. That is all there is to it. The proportions may be varied to suit individual notions; but I have found that the above compund needs no modification for any range of temperature that we have at St. Louis. "
From Sharpe:
"Horace Kephart's lubricant. Crude ozocerite, 3 parts; vaseline, 2 parts. Melt together in a double boiler. If too hard for your rifle, soften it by adding more vaseline." Notes:
Horace Kephart is the designer of the Kephart style of bullet.
Ozocerite is a mineral wax dug out of the ground like coal. The refined wax goes under the name cerasine. The refined version does not work as well as the crude.
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Tom Ballard
From a conversation with a friend:
"Half beeswax, half toilet wax"
This is what I was told when I found a coffee can marked 'Tom's Magic Lube' in a friends reloading room.
Notes:
Tom Ballard is a mould maker here in Montana
'Toilet Wax' is, I am told, the wax gasket applied when installing a toilet. Stranger things have been used.
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Niedner Mixture
From Sharpe's Handloading:
Japan Wax Acheson's graphite #1340
"To a half pound of of melted Japan Wax add four heaping tablespoons of powdered Acheson's graphite #1340. The melted mixture must not be too hot, and the graphite must be added a little at a time and stirred continuously. When the entire amount has been added, remove the mixture from the heat supply, and continue stirring. This is very important. If left to stand in a melted mixture the graphite will seperate from the wax.
Notes:
I have no idea about the Acheson's #1340
'Japan Wax' is the wax of the carnauba tree. Commonly used as ski wax.
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Herrick Mixture
From Sharpe's Handloading:
Japan Wax Beeswax Cylinder or castor oil
"...equal parts of beeswax and Japan wax with a small quantity of cylinder oil or castor oil, the latter added primarily to soften the mass...the smallest amount should be used. The oil will 'sweat out' if lubricated bullets or loaded cartridges are stored for several months."
Notes:
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Henry Beverage Lube
From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Yellow vaseline 2 oz. mutton tallow 4 oz. japan wax 10 oz. beeswax 6 oz. crude ozocerite 6 oz. gunslick grease 1 tube per 6 oz. of mixture
Notes:
Formula atrributed to Leopold
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Charlie Dell #36
From Shooter's Talk:
Lithium stearate - 1 part by weight 600W worm gear oil - 1 part beeswax - 1 part lanolin - 1 part synaceti - 1 part
Mix everything except the beeswax at about 400 degrees F. Mix will melt, then jell, then melt again. Pour in the melted beeswax and bring back up to heat until it all melts and no gel remains.
Notes:
Synaceti 125 is available from some candle shops and is a substitute for spermacetti.
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Charlie Dell #48
From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Beeswax - 10 parts by weight Peanut oil - 5 parts anhydrous lanolin - 4 parts lithium stearate - 5 parts gunslick grease - 1 tube per 6 oz. of mixture
The waxes and oils are melted together and allowed to cool until they just start to harden. Then the Li stearate is mixed in. It will look like tan mud. Reheat and keep raising the temp. stirring at frequent intervals. First it will start to gel and turn translucent, then will finally melt around 400F. It must be poured into moulds at this point because when the temp drops slightly it will gel again.
Notes:
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Charlie Dell #53
From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Beeswax 20 gm. anhydrous lanolin 5 gm. castile soap (Kirks) 2 gm. castor oil 5 gm.
Notes:
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Manny, Hil, & Metzler
From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Tallow 1 oz. ozocerite 2 oz. japan wax 2 oz. beeswax 5 oz. steam cyl. oil 1 oz.
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Leopold #245 - From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Japan wax 4 1/2 oz. tallow 9 oz. ozocerite 1 1/2 oz. lye 1/2 oz. rosin 1/2 oz. water 8 oz.
Boil until froth disappears. Mix, boil with lye and water, cool and remove cake from water, wash and form into sticks for pump. High melting point, not for pan lube.
Notes:
This is probably typical of Leopolds formulas.
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Donaldson's Lube - From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Beef tallow 6 oz. beeswax 4 oz. rosin 2 oz.
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N.H. Robert's #1 - From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Beeswax 6 oz. beef tallow 2oz steam cyl. oil 3 tsp.
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N.H. Robert's #2 - From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Crude Ozocerite 1 part yellow beeswax 1 part Japan wax 1 part mutton tallow 1 part
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Roderick #1 Hard - From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Beeswax 4 oz. mutton tallow 3 1/8 oz. Mobil 600 wt, steam cyl. oil 7/8 oz.
Notes:
For use at 80 deg. F and above
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Roderick #2 Medium - From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Beeswax 3 1/8 oz. Mutton tallow 4 oz. Mobil 600 wt. steam cyl. oil 7/8 oz.
Notes:
For use between 55 and 80 deg. F
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Pope Lube - From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Beeswax 2 oz. Bayberry wax 4 oz. mutton tallow 6 oz. steam cyl. oil 2 oz. Acheson graphite #1340 170 gr.
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Barry Darr #1 - From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Paraffin 50% Vasaline 50% old RCBS case lube 1 tbs per lb. of mix
Notes:
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Barry Darr #2 - From the Cast Bullet Mailing List (CB-L):
Paraffin 50% Vasaline 50%
Notes:
Same as Barry Darr #1 but minus the RCBS case lube
Might as well toss in my own.
For black powder I'm using 6 parts beeswax to 4 parts lanolin to 2 parts peanut oil. Easy panlube keeps fouling soft and a good chapstick.
For smokeless I'll use the above or Felix's lube from the "Cast Boolit" board. or NRA alox.
Jerry Liles
