Hello. new member on this excellent site. my primary interest is in British made single shot firearms.
I have an interest in all single shot falling blocks or farquharson actions of British make especially those made by webley. I have been looking for the patents or designs online for the 1902 webley falling block action or any design information I can about these rifles. nothing can be found. where would I find the patents or working drawings for the webley or any other of the elegant British designs of falling blocks ?

Thanks

hello and welcome! I don't have the book near me now, but have you checked "British Single Shot Rifles Volume 6, Webley, Kynock and Eley" by Wal Winfer ? His books are a great reference for all British falling block rifles.
... Joe

Thanks for answering joe, no I don't have access to those books which I hear are very good but expensive. where can I buy them ?

They happen to be my favorite type of rifle too. Although myself, I do not care for the Webely, My tastes run towards Gibbs, Henry, H&H and Westley. I agree with Joe, get Wal's great book on them. Working drawings(blueprint type) do not exist as far as I know. If you are planning on trying to build one, you would be best off reverse engineering one from an original. I have a large action Webely I am currently restoring for a client currently but do not have the time to draw it up for you. Best of luck on your project.

Thanks skb. The westley Richards 1897 is another lovely design, I have an interest in webley as I own and shoot .22lr webley mk iv revolver regularly, to me they were always good value for money and very well made. I am open to any design though so if anyone has anything they'd be willing to share I would be interested. As for reverse engineering, if I got my hands on an original gibbs or h&h falling block action , 10 men wouldn't wrestle it back off me lol.

Webley falling blocks seem to have the least bearing surface for the block of all the British falling blocks. In addition to Wal's books, I also highly recommend Jonathan Kirton's British Falling Blocks.

Do the original working drawings never turn up from the old makers who have shut up shop ? someone told me on the assra site that the makers never had blueprints or working plans as such, but they must have had something.

Bonny

Kirton has patent drawings for the Model 1897 (#5388) on pages 266 and 367 and for the Model 1902 (#6365) on pages 268 and 368 - Second Edition.

Bill

Thank you wjw. i am open to using any action design. The simpler the better.

bonny, I don't know what you want to do (build from scratch?) But you might consider a Fraser
http://www.steveearleproducts.com/fraser.html

Thanks brent. If i was to come across an action design that was simple enough then yes i would like to try a scratch build. Bolt actions etc my be easier to do , but with the exception of double rifles nothing has the class of a falling block imho.

Well, the Fraser seems pretty simple to me (but I couldn't machine a toothpick). It is strong and smooth to operate (the one or two that I have handled).

Steve Earl may have plans he would be willing to sell someone for a one-off project. No harm in asking anyway.

English singles are pretty elegant, but I think it is one area where the American actions hold their own, maybe even with a margin to spare. If Winchester Singleshots weren't so dirt common, they would have become the most prized singleshot of all time. In my opinion of course

Brent

You could be right brent , but i have never seen a winchester single shot in the flesh. Ruger no.1's are reasonably common, certainly not rare but are a classic in their own lifetime again imho. The best way of course to get a design or drawing of an action is to sit down with an action and measure every last detail and constructing a model in solidworks or something like that. Sadly 100+ year old actions aren't exactly thick on the ground.

bonny,
What are your machining abilities, I mean what is your experience?
The reason I ask is because I did the designs for a fraser type gun a number of years ago and built it. I have shown a picture of it on here in old threads, you may want to search. If interested we can discuss. I am not interested in any pay for what I have but if this is your first time machining something it may be not the right place to start. But if you can tackle then let me know.

I worked in engineering all my working life and served an apprenticeship at it lrf and have my own milling machine and lathe, as well as tig welding kit and a good collection of the usual hand tools and tooling you accumulate over the years. Cutting a square hole for the block is no problem as i know a toolmaker who has access to wire edm facilities.

I will send you a PM with my phone number and call me so we can talk.

I have a Rod Story,Shawnee,Oklahoma Jeffery Farquarson "kit" made from investment castings and requires a lot of machine work from what I have been told. Would be interested in selling. Will P.M. my phone number.

Bonny,

Over 45 years ago I wrote to all of the then still extant British Gunmakers, asking if they had plans for their old single shot rifles. Quite a few replied but all said they no longer had them. In many instances some actions were scaled up or down in size depending on the cartridge required by the customer.

Thanks to Wal Winfer we now know a good many Gun Makers didn't make their own actions but ordered them in from Greener, Francotte etc.

Never rely on any plans on Patent Applications, firstly they are not dimensioned, second, they seldom bear more than a passing resemblance to the production item. Plans for British single shot rifles are not commonly available and people who do attempt to make them have to have access to an original action to 'back engineer'. However don't let me put you off, there's not a finer feeling that to shoot a rifle you have built yourself from scratch.

British single shot actions are not at all common, and when they do appear they command high prices because they were not made in vast numbers, except for those that were for the military of the British Empire and they were mostly Martini-Henry's or 310 Martini Cadets.

Wal Winfers books I understand have recently been republished so they should be priced less than some people were offering the first editions for a year or two ago. They are very well worth having. I wouldn't part with my set of seven volumes.

Good luck with your quest,

Harry

Thanks for the reply harry. Yes i realize that what i was looking for is needle in a haystack rare. All the design drawings for all the british manufacturers would probabily have fitted in one slim folder and lets face it , when these companies were closing up during the post war slump in british gunmaking these drawings were considered worthless.
As for the winfer series of books on single shots, do you have a link to a publisher or somewhere who will be selling the new run ? I did find some in a specialist book sellers in america , but they were expensive with a capital e.

Amazon.com, average about 60.00

That's a lot cheaper than they were previously, I seen them at up to 130.

You may also inquire about the multi volume set (7) that Tom Rowe published on "Patents on Inventions for Small Arms" from 1855-1930, the British Patent Office.
Tom's book still can be obtained thru RoweBooks and I recall him telling me that Mobray's in Rhode Island have his book - although I don't know which ones.