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Posted By: Joe Dobrzynski Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/27/14 02:26 AM
below are a few photos of Michael's gunroom from February, 2014 before I started cleaning out shelves and drawers and before Amoskeag arrived to take the firearms.

A view from Michael's chair ...


Wall on the right hand side ...


Rack on the left hand side ...
Posted By: Joe Dobrzynski Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/27/14 02:28 AM
Close up of the single-shot rifles ...
Posted By: Joe Dobrzynski Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/27/14 02:36 AM
While it has been a lot of work, Michael gave me an incredible opportunity to help manage the liquidation of his items. I learned a lot from him while spending hours in that room with him going over the rifles, but I was forced to learn even more when researching all the various parts I was photographing and listing.

We had a serious conversation before he went into the hospital and he left me with very specific instructions including, "don't give my sh*t away!" Thank you to all of you have visited my auctions over the last several months since Michael passed away. Thank you also for helping me correct my descriptions to avoid issues later.

Michael's items will continue to be listed over the next few weeks and I imagine that only his library will be left after the holidays. I have sold a few hundred of his books already and there are many more to go.

... Joe
Posted By: Joe Dobrzynski Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/27/14 03:03 AM
Here are a few views from the Wills collection to be auctioned next month ...





Posted By: Bob Saathoff Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/27/14 02:18 PM
Joe,
I have been watching the Amoskeag website waiting for them to post their online catalog. It will be a real education for all single shot lovers as well the fine early bolt gun aficionados. It will be as close as many of us can get to handling rifles like this. You certainly are a fine friend to John and Michael and must feel honored to have had them pick you as the executor of their collections. You've spent a great deal of time and have done a great service to both families. Don Neal wrote a nice article on John Wills that was published in the Single Shot Exchange.
Posted By: Craig Havener Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/27/14 02:36 PM
Joe, thanks for the look! What a shame to break it up.Do you know how many years were spent in putting it together?
These pictures are keepers!
Best,
Craig
Posted By: Terry Buffum Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/28/14 04:51 PM
Craig,

I "met" Michael circa 1970 when I reduced my single shot collection a bit. How many years before that he had been collecting is unknown to me, but I don't think it could have been too many, given his age. He later said his first Pope was one of my duplicates. Our first face to face meeting was many years later, 2007, as I recall.

I "met" John through Michael circa 1990. He was well established as a collector at that time. His gunsmithing work was superb!
Posted By: A10ACN Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/28/14 05:08 PM
So awesome. SO much history!
Posted By: Mills Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/28/14 05:29 PM
Thanks for sharing the photos. What a cool gunroom! I was able to buy two of his books off of Ebay
Posted By: Craig Havener Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/28/14 06:10 PM
What a monument for 40+ collecting! I know they will find new homes and be well cared for, but never in one place together again. It is sad!The really great collections are few!
Terry, thanks for the input.
Best,
Craig
Posted By: eightbore Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/28/14 09:54 PM
None of our favorite collections will be in the same place again, but they will be in the hands of collectors who will value them and pass them on when the "time comes".
Posted By: Alvin Linden Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/28/14 11:18 PM
It is funny but I don't consider the 80 something rifles I own a collection, even though the vast majority are pre-war custom sporters. I see each one as an individual rifle, with its' own attributes and qualities. The majority carry the name Griffin and Howe, Owen, Linden, Sukalle, and Niedner, while others are known as the "Mississippi Custom" because it was made by an unknown craftsman there. As I have said on this blog before, we do not OWN THESE WONDERFUL GUNS, WE ARE MERELY LUCKLY ENOUGH TO BE THEIR CARETAKER,FOR A SHORT WHILE. When the auction for Petrov's estate takes place, there won't be "Michael Rifles" on auction, there will be rifles being auctioned, that were built by the likes of the talented men above, that were last owned by Mr. Petrov. If a particular gun is more valuable having been owned by Petrov, then by all means buy it, as the money goes to his family, and that is a good thing. Remember however, when your family sells it in your estate, the value will be determined by who built it. The Indians knew the land, like these rifles OWN US, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
Posted By: sharps4590 Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/29/14 10:32 AM
Much truth to that Alvin, much truth.
Posted By: Der Ami Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/29/14 03:18 PM
I was always of the belief that a man's guns should go to his children/grandchildren.This was due to the ,maybe mistaken,hope that they would mean as much to them as my own dad's and grandfather's(also uncle's, old friend's)guns mean to me.I,more and more,am being disappointed by the attitude of some inheritors of old guns.In a gunshow, I was once asked to buy an old rifle, the owner of which said belonged to his grandfather.At the same time, his son was standing next to him.While I believe a man can do what he wants with his property,I refused to be the one that took that boy's greatgrandfather's rifle from him.It was in good shape, but old rifles like that one are not worth much to anyone else, yet could be priceless to an heir.Once it is gone from the family, it has lost it's Id and real value.The last time I saw the man, he was leaving with a plastic stocked, stamped part modern gun, over his shoulder, and a sad son following. I think, now, my opinion might have to change. Thanks for allowing me to "rant".
Mike
Posted By: Alvin Linden Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/29/14 04:46 PM
Mike: I agree wholeheartedly! How will it sound in 50 years when the next generation tells their grandchildren, "I remember your Granddad sitting in the den, after a hunt lovingly applying Armorall to this beautiful piece of plastic. SAD but most of the modern world is.

Jerry
Posted By: PhysDoc Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/29/14 07:04 PM
I guess this is a question for Joe, and first of all, let me give you my heartfelt
thanks for starting this thread. Were there any special guns that Michael wanted
to be kept in the family, if so what were they?
Posted By: craigd Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/29/14 09:18 PM
Great rant Mike. Even if it doesn't work out, the opinion can still be good.
Posted By: SDH-MT Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/29/14 10:21 PM
I never give a thought to what happens to my guns except that my brother outlives me, and what a hassle it's going to be for him, like it is for Joe right now. As much as a treat as it might seem to us, it is one tremendous hassle and my thanks goes out to Joe for taking it on. Thanks for sharing the Gun Room photos, although I don't think any of us want to see any "after" pics...

Michael and I had some talks about this eventuality, but we sure figured there was "more time" to sort things out. I've been doing small things to identify and attach value to some of my stuff to hopefully make it easer for brother Chris or...
The guns will always wind up in the hands of who appreciates them most.

I've got a lot of different stuff, different colletions so several different lists, book cases, drawers, etc...
I've never attached much value to money so I've got more than my share of stuff.

In this pic, cartridge boxes, vintage Lawrence holster, Navajo saddle blanket, vintage & modern Acoma pots. You can just see the bottom of a set of Keith Brown Roper target grips on the vintage K-38 (or K.22?) in the holster. Of course I've got books that discuss each.. (and 8,888 guns)
Posted By: SDH-MT Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/29/14 10:32 PM
The large Zia pot and the "Two Grey Hills" Navajo rug are each worth considerably more than the S&W revolver, but who would know that? The little vintage Zia is worth as much as the revolver. I like handmade.
Posted By: RHD45 Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/29/14 11:25 PM
I worry about my 2 buildings full of hardwood lumber on my passing. Everything else is spoken for but several thousand feet of mostly walnut none of the kids seem too interested in.
Posted By: Terry Buffum Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 12:33 AM
"Were there any special guns that Michael wanted
to be kept in the family, if so what were they?"

Not to my knowledge,but I do know that once he got sick,he had planned to greatly reduce his collection, thinking ahead to the inevitable. There are 26 arms on the "Keep" list; I was pleased to see that those he got from me were among his "keepers".

I type slowly, so I may have to break this into a couple of sessions:

Wundhammer - First One, Match prize
Wundhammer restoration
Ross King 1903 - Pope
Adolph 1903 (Mixter)
Kirkwood Fancy 1903 Compass
Barney Worthen .30-06
Bob Owen, early
S R Griffin, Kornbrath
James V Howe 1903 w/Kornbrath, single lever
Niedner 1903.400 Niedner
Niedner .32-40High Wall, Shelhamer stock No 623 bbl
NiednerBorchardt .25 Krag
Niedner Ballard .32-40, Wills stock
Niedner High Wall .22-3000
Niedner Baker-Borchardt
Munier 1903
August Pachmayr take down 1903, Noske
John Wright & Sons Mauser
.33-WP Ballard ----(I think "WP" is Wills, Poss)
Trapdoor .45-70
.400 Whelen Model 70
Sharps Borchardt Long-Range .45-70
Krag .30-40 (House rifle)
William R Schafer "A" 12 gauge
Hoffman-Kornbrath 12 gauge (had tow,so I don't know which one he meant)
S&W 19-3 "Bike gun"
Winchester 64/94re-bore
"S-Man" 1903
Remington Model 12 .22 pump (family gun) ---- I hope that one got saved!
1922 .22 Shelhamer
Winchester 25 shotgun
Remington 700 .223 Leupold
Colt Cobra CCW
Remington 32-TC two barrel set

I hope you can tell my notes (preceeded by ----) from Michael's, I tried to just copy what he had sent to me, but felt the urge to add a couple of personal notes.
Posted By: RHD45 Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 12:44 AM
The Remington model 12 by Owen was my favorite out of all the guns shown in his first book.His collection is amazing. I can only wonder at all the time and research it took to find all those wonderful guns.
Posted By: waterman Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 01:24 AM
I am in awe of Michael's work and collection. It is not just the money, although there was a lot of that. To me, the really significant part is the scholarship and research, the effort made to track down each piece, not just guns, but all the accessories and tools. All the work building the histories of each set of items, all the time and travel. Every bit of it had to be a lot of fun for Michael.

With Michael's passing and now the auction, the curtains are closing on on one heck of a show. Of the hundreds of millions of people in the world of the internet, how many are there who are even capable of understanding what we have lost? My feeling is that our numbers are in the 3- or 4-digit range and most of us are a lot closer to the end than to the beginning. In 20 or 30 years, none of us will be here. What then? Are there any young people who have a clue?
Posted By: gasgunner Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 03:02 AM
I plan to be here in 30 years lord willing. But it might be pretty quiet around here.

John
Posted By: LRF Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 12:08 PM
Me too Gasgunner, 110 is possible isn't it?

Waterman what you lament is just the stock truth of the evolution of the human race. Your exact words have been spoken more then once over the pass millenniums. Sad but true.
We need to accept that and for us who have the bug, enjoy while it lasts. I am pleased Michael was able to pass some of that vast knowledge of our passion, albiet just a portion at best. Thank You Michael as you have done our addiction a significant fix.
Remember that the only thing that makes the human different from all the other creatures on the earth is the ability to communication in a permanent method, writing...and Micheal proved his humanity.

Joe, you have been a great help with what at times must be a difficult job and a sad one, full of mixed emotions. Thanks
Posted By: Joe Dobrzynski Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 12:10 PM
To: SDH-MT ... Thank you for your compliment above.

To: PhysDoc ... There was one family rifle, the Remington Model 12 .22 pump-action rifle in Terry's list above that was passed on to Michael's sister. I don't know if she has children, but that was one gun that didn't go to auction.

I sorted through the "lesser" rifles and some of these were put on consignment at a local gun shop that Michael frequented -and- some were listed by me on GunBroker months ago. None of these were premium rifles. They were plain sporterized rifles or rifles that required some minor work.

I have been keeping a short list of notes, and although I am not a writer, I am thinking about writing an article about Estate Planning with Regards to Firearms. Both gentlemen that I have helped have been extraordinarily organized, but there are things they could have done better/differently. If your wife or children have some interest in our hobby, it may be easier, but if your family lacks interest, they could be prey to distant "friends", local businesses and other unscrupulous individuals. ... more on this later ...

... Joe
Posted By: eightbore Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 02:12 PM
Joe, is the Model 12 Remington you refer to as the "family rifle" the Owen gun?
Posted By: SDH-MT Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 03:34 PM
[quote=waterman] To me, the really significant part is the scholarship and research, the effort made to track down each piece, not just guns, but all the accessories and tools.
Every bit of it had to be a lot of fun for Michael.
With Michael's passing and now the auction, the curtains are closing on on one heck of a show. Of the hundreds of millions of people in the world of the internet, how many are there who are even capable of understanding what we have lost?/quote]

I don't see it that away at all. Michael's research lives on in his books, every day someone new shows up here attracted to this subject as this is the Only place to find Any info. They are lurking right this minute.
The curtains are opened, the collection dispersed to many other collections as seeds are sown to grown into new collectors with renewed passion for things made by thoughtful men with care and precision.
These guns are simply too precious to evaporate, someone will always desire to own them. Just because you and I are dying it doesn't mean it's over…

Every single item that Joe sells on eBay goes into an existing collection or is the budding of a new collection. This is the beginning, IMHO…
In the past couple of decades many long held collections have been broken up and dispersed to become the guns in our collections today. So it goes...

Michael's greatest concern was for his research papers. Terry, do you have any notion what the plans are for that material?
Posted By: waterman Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 04:49 PM
It is Michael's knowledge that has evaporated. He wrote that Dr. Mann's wife did not really burn the second manuscript and implied that something else happened. But what?
Posted By: Gary Duffey Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 04:56 PM
Having spent many hours visiting with Michael I can tell you with confidence that this conversation would make him very happy and even excited. I hope that it will motivate us all to exchange information and facts as they are developed. Michael will not be replaced. He had the unique blend of interest, passion, time, and intelect to conduct the research. I do not know who will have that same resume. I believe we can agree on that. I think Steve is right, however I do believe the numbers will be small (as they are today, there are just not that many of us) there will be interest in quality and history. We know that there was a time when a rifle scope was thought to be heresy. Cost nothing to hope for the best, and the resposibility of educating the next generation falls on us. I know that Michael had communication with the folks at Cody and the last we spoke specifically about this I believe that was the plan. Not a really good solution but keeping it intact was a top criteria.
Posted By: Terry Buffum Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 06:56 PM
Steven,

As Gary said,the last I knew Michael hoped his papers would go to the Cody Museum. I have no idea if that is happening. They have limited space, and his interests are removed from "Buffalo Bill", so it is possible that they decided there is not a good fit between them. Maybe a few visits and trips down into the basement to ask questions about the period between the World Wars would convince them to find room!
Posted By: SDH-MT Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 07:37 PM
The McCracken Library at the BB Center of the West (Cody Museum) in Cody is probably The place for manuscript collections such as we might be interested in. I came to meet the Ass. Curator of the WF Cody papers and she convinced me to take another look at this extraordinary Library.

http://centerofthewest.org/research/mccracken-research-library/archon/

That link will take you to the Archival Collection List, collections of papers, etc. available for research, some very familiar names with many striking my imagination and curiosity. They catalog and preserve for future researchers.
I'm going to send copies of my books (you an also search their book collection through Wyoming Libraries) because they don't appear to have them and I would like them to.
My "archives" are about my career in the main, but I also have extensive written correspondence with custom gunmakers and engravers from back when we used to writer letters.
I believe the McCracken would be a worthy location for Michael's archives, then waterman, or other future researchers will be able to go do their own research and answer their own questions.

Research in by necessity a labor of love. Various folks have thought I should continue, or archive other's papers, but I've got my own, and I write a dozen magazine article every year to pay my mortgage and I'm plenty busy writing and researching (eh Terry?).

Thankfully the bulk of my writing has been published but there is plenty that has never seen book form and we all have piles of magazines that someone will trash if we don't. These days it Must be digitized to be preserved. Newspapers and magazines are the first thing to go when the heirs clean the place out, and I'm sure we are all inundated with paper in this form. (Joe, what does Michael's magazine stash look like?)

I'm trying to find time to razor blade my two boxes of Sports Afield columns to preserve in a binder as the book I would like to see published on custom rifles.
Posted By: OBXEJC Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 08:43 PM
Joe,
I hope you find the time to write something on estate planning for firearms collectors. As a second generation collector and dealer I was fortunate to have grown up in the business and meet so many interesting people of all means. My brother and I are carrying on the legacy my Father started because we appreciate the beautiful craftsmanship that it takes to make a fine firearm and also love the history behind each piece. When you have developed relationships with people over many decades sooner or later the inevitable happens and you find yourself at the table of their heirs. You quickly learn what kind of a relationship that former friend/client had with their spouse and children, usually within five minutes.

A good chapter for any estate planning book should be dedicated to the relationships between family members and how this plays into the decision making. We have found strong Type A personalities usually leave behind a weaker spouse that lets the children make the final decisions, normally lending to the SELL IT ALL FOR THE MONEY decision. Also tell tale signs can be detected by family members for those that are aging and getting ready to pass would make a good chapter. Almost every instance we have had dealing with Combat Veterans of WWII had clear signs that the end was near. Usually those that have experienced the ravages of war normally never talk about their experiences until 6 to 8 months before they pass. Army medals appear out of cabinets, dusted off and are hung on the wall, discussions with grandchildren about the war become more prevalent, etc.

It's sad to sit at a table and beg the children to leave a soldier's combat belt, .45 pistol and fighting knife to the 12 year old grandson and watch them pick out a modern cheap gun that can be bought at a local gun shop and sell everything else. I wish everyone would leave strict instructions for the spouse or have a plan in place.

It's too bad we can start out our lives wise, imagine what mistakes could be avoided.
Posted By: eightbore Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/30/14 09:50 PM
My recent correspondence with Michael indicates that the paper collection will go to McCracken. We didn't neccesarily agree that that was the right thing to do, but the Rifled Arms organization apparently has gone belly up and Michael and I both agreed that that was not the way to go. At the time of his death, I believe that McCracken was his decision. I hope his paper is not buried forever. Bill Murphy in MD
Posted By: SDH-MT Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/31/14 12:06 AM
Do you have an alternate suggestion?
Posted By: waterman Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/31/14 03:20 PM
What is the volume of material being discussed? How much work would it be to scan, catalog, and protect everything with copyright held by Michael's estate? Wherever it ultimately resides, it is more likely to survive if cataloged.
Posted By: gasgunner Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 11/03/14 02:02 PM
It is my understanding that Michael scanned all his material. This way when he did he research he could used the scanned copy on his computer and not have to handle and risk damage to original copies. How much would you give to have someone just click and dag that folder to your thumb drive? Or better yet, upload it some place where others could download it, or portions of it for a small fee. To me that file has as much value as any of the rifles. Joe, if there is any way that something like this could be done I think it would leave a great legacy.

John
Posted By: eightbore Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 11/03/14 02:18 PM
Steven, to answer your question, Michael and I could come up with no alternative to McCracken. The Rifled Arms Historical Society was a wonderful organization with an interest that is congruent with ours, but lack of help and labor ended that organization.
Posted By: eightbore Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 09/18/21 02:05 PM
Bringing up this thread may be a bit emotional for some readers. However, it should be mentioned that Michael Petrov's research collection apparently went to the ASSRA archives. I have no information about how they plan to make it available to researchers or casual students.
Posted By: waterman Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 09/18/21 04:16 PM
I have used the ASSRA Archives to research Willard Milton Farrow. The Archives appear to be organized and the Archivist has been quite helpful, going out of his way to search out documents, make digital photocopies and e-mail said photocopies to me. That written, the Archivist, like the rest of us, is getting older.
Posted By: LeFusil Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 10/07/21 02:52 PM
I don’t have anything much to offer this thread, as I rarely if ever visit this cubby hole on the board. The only thing I’ve got is that when I opened the thread and saw the pics of Mike’s gun room, it immediately brought back some fond memories.
I was in Anchorage in 2007 getting ready to start a new job up around the Fairbanks area. I got ahold of Mike and he invited me over to his house. What an experience. The first place he took me was up to his research office. Spent and hour or more up there just looking through old books and pictures and listening to him talk about past and present projects. Amazing stuff up in that office, oodles of historical information, almost too much to really take in.
Next, we went to the garage and he sternly told me not to tell anyone about what we were going to see next (I think the statute of limitations has run out on that…), I said ok, and he moved a panel off of the wall, there was a door behind it and he unlocked it and we went in….I was floored. What an amazing collection of guns, exactly what you see in the pictures here on this thread. For the next two or three hours we sat down there pulling each and every gun off the rack and Mike would go through each guns history. Unbelievable experience. I remember him showing me several old grainy pictures of a rifle. I don’t remember all the details but it was an important gun, built by Ackley or Niedner I don’t remember exactly, he told the story of him trying to find that exact gun in the pictures. 30+ years of research, sleuthing, etc….just trying to find this elusive gun….and then he pulled it off the rack and showed it to me. It blew me away. What tenacity!!
My favorite gun in the rack was his W&C Scott Excellentia. It was gorgeous and in unbelievable condition. I coveted that gun and always wanted one just like it from that day on. He had a very nice W.W. Greener in the rack as well that was in beautiful condition. My favorite was the Scott though.

I miss Mike. His generosity and wealth of knowledge was amazing. I really enjoyed my initial visit and subsequent conversations and visits with him. I still think about him from time to time, and it makes me happy to see his name and guns come up in conversation. One of my favorite “gun people” ever.
Posted By: Mills Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 11/01/21 08:15 PM
I am sorry I never knew him. He died before I really got interested in rifles
Posted By: eightbore Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 11/02/21 04:31 PM
I was lucky to have had a correspondence with Michael, which I still have around here someplace. Our plans for the Oberlies chapter of the third book never got off the ground. I hope Joe D. still has some of it.
Posted By: PhysDoc Re: Petrov's Gun Room (before) ... - 11/03/21 12:51 AM
Originally Posted by Mills
I am sorry I never knew him. He died before I really got interested in rifles

Some here knew him well, others, like myself, wish we had known him better. That being said, I think, all of us, because of
how we felt about him, would be glad to help and encourage your interest in rifles.
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