I see Walmart has made the decision to pull all rebel flag related items from sale. Following the Supreme Court decision regarding Texas license plates, I guess the leap from public speech to private speech is proceeding as planned. Funny how fast all this happened; I expect your right to hunt will fall just as suddenly one day...Geo
If anyone thinks the brave that crossed the wheat field at Gettysburg gave a damn about a bunch of neggras think again . All they wanted was to kill abes. invading army & live in peace.TheFlag has nothing to do with negros.
Screaming Eagle, I'm not so sure I know what the boys in Gray were thinking about when they died at Gettysburg. Whatever it was though, it either means nothing or it deserves remembrance and honor.
Remembrance and honor is what the SC statehouse memorial is all about, not racism. Revisionist history has my head swimming nowadays and everything I grew up believing seems to be challenged today. However, if the current trend is going to be about tearing down Confederate Memorials, I am against it, and I don't give a damn who knows it.
It seems that when South Carolina previously took the rebel flag down from atop the statehouse and moved it to the Confederate Memorial they provided that it might only be removed by a super majority vote of the legislature. It remains to be seen whether that will happen...Geo
If anyone thinks the brave that crossed the wheat field at Gettysburg gave a damn about a bunch of neggras think again . All they wanted was to kill abes. invading army & live in peace.TheFlag has nothing to do with negros.
News is...now they want the Confederate monuments in Washington.
I'm not so much a "Flagger", but the message below which I had seen somewhere else seems pertinent to the issue in this thread:
"Famed Union Generals U.S Grant and William T. Sherman were slave holding yankees who did not free their slaves until AFTER the end of the civil war (The Emancipation Proclamation was applicable only to slaves in the confederate states, intended to cause chaos and destabilize the South). Abraham Lincoln stated in 1862 "I am a little uneasy about the abolishment of slavery in this District [of Columbia]." he also stated "If I could save The Union without freeing any slaves, I would do it" in a letter to Horace Greeley. One of his more awful statements in the fourth Lincoln-Douglas debate ends in "I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the White race." Racism and Slavery are not a southern or confederate legacy, they are an American legacy. Racism was not a Confederate problem, it was an American problem - anyone stating otherwise is trying to absolve themselves of the shame of this atrocious institution and scapegoat those who fought for "the lost cause". Whether or not the confederate flag is flown on government property is a separate debate... I am just annoyed that our populace lacks the critical thinking ability to question the claims that the confederacy and the south, and the symbols used to honor our ancestors who fought for what they considered their right of self determination, are evil and atrocious symbols of hate and racism. Has the confederate flag been used by the KKK and white supremacists? Of course! But so was the Christian cross. After Pearl Harbor, it was the US flag that flew over internment camps that ruined the lives of hardworking Japanese Americans, so do we abolish the US flag because it was used in that campaign that destroyed so many lives purely because of racial prejudice? No, we observe the good and the bad that symbolizes the American struggle for freedom and embody our continued search for self determination and a "more perfect union", for me, these symbols includes the Stars and Bars"
I'd give attribution for the above if I had it. Our little hometown newspaper rarely takes any position on political stuff, but yesterday I saw an editorial in it headlined: "Exploiting Tragedy Inexcusable". Silly me, I thought the paper had criticized the despicable political habit of never wasting a good tragedy. Nope, it was about scams related to the Charleston tragedy...Geo
The linked article appears to be a rather well documented account of Grant's slave ownership. He did own one slave prior to the war when owning a farm in Missouri. This slave was freed prior to the war. His father inlaw owned several slaves, but since they were in Missouri, they were not freed until after the war as Missouri did not secede.
JC, I read the material you referred to. My impression is that it is a sort of scholarly dodge on the question of whether Grant was a slave holder. Grant may or may not have voluntarily freed the ONE slave he seems to have owned himself before the war, but it seems clear that his wife's slaves were not freed until the Missouri constitutional convention after the war...Geo
It is quite clear that Grant freed the one slave he did own in 1859. The circumstances of that are unclear, but the slave was freed. The length of ownership was probably short as it was in relation to Grant's unsuccessful attempt at farming that the slave was owned.
The other slaves were not owned by Grant, but were owned by his father inlaw. Grant was in no position to free them.
JC, with all respect I read the material. Freedom is not the same as indentured out to earn freedom with the income of one's labor being paid to the former owner until the indenture is satisfied.
Mrs Grant's slaves were given to her by her father when she was a child. The article played around with the question of a bill of sale, but the parties, the father, the wife and the slaves all considered them to be her slaves. What the article does is beg the question as to whether General Grant was a slave holder to create doubt.
This is all just my take on the article, but anyone interested can open the link and read it for themselves...Geo
So what they were slaves a 100 plus years ago. We don't owe them anything....fact is they should be happy and proud to be here.
jOe, I don't see it that simply. Slavery was an evil institution, not just as viewed from our modern day sensibilities,but evil in itself. There are still repercussions of that institution borne by the black race today.
I perceive a vast sense of general guilt in the American people today. That guilt is made easier to bare by scapegoating it on to an object like the rebel flag and by extension upon the people of the South today and civil war monuments in general. We do not deserve it, but I think that is what is driving this rebel flag movement today.
No one in the South today has ever owned a slave, and no black man in America today has ever been a slave. No one anywhere in America that I am aware of would defend the institution today. No one anywhere owns slaves anymore with the possible exception of thug pimps or Arab sheikhs. Things were different 150 years ago...Geo
....There are still repercussions of that institution borne by the black race today.
I perceive a vast sense of general guilt in the American people today. That guilt is made easier to bare by scapegoating it on to an object like the rebel flag and by extension....
Okay, I'll bite, what repercussions are being borne today. I like that 'by extension' part. Are you a reparations kind of guy. Would that contractually clear the guilt.
I sense a monstrous couldn't care less by the American people today, tempered by the devastation of getting saddled with a pc label.
I perceive a vast sense of general guilt in the American people today.
Slavery was wrong and the legacy is sad in many ways, but I do not feel a speck of personal guilt. My ancestors were still in Europe until they started coming through Ellis Island around 1885. Yes, there are serious problems. No, I did not cause them. But you and I are paying for them, and will undoubtedly pay more in the future.
....There are still repercussions of that institution borne by the black race today.I perceive a vast sense of general guilt in the American people today. That guilt is made easier to bare by scapegoating it on to an object like the rebel flag and by extension....
Okay, I'll bite, what repercussions are being borne today. I like that 'by extension' part. Are you a reparations kind of guy. Would that contractually clear the guilt. I sense a monstrous couldn't care less by the American people today, tempered by the devastation of getting saddled with a pc label.
Come on Craig, you are one of the smart guys. You know as well as I do that slavery, Jim Crow, and maybe worst of all the creation of what may be a permanent black underclass by the liberal political machine of the 20th century is all interconnected. The repercussions are black poverty, loss of the sense of self worth pervading the entire race, and the disintegration of the black family.
Reparations? Why no, actually. Far as I know I descend from a long line of southern po' white trash. I'm pretty sure I'm not guilty of any connection with the institution of slavery. If I am it is so far in the past that I feel no personal guilt over it and do not consider anything necessary to "clear the guilt". My point is that 150 years ago was a different time and we as Americans were a much different people. This country needs to accept that and get over it.
However, do you seriously think that we are not all paying reparations everyday? Of course we are, in the form of the welfare state, healthcare, and the very pc you are so devastated by being saddled with (your words).
That pc is the genesis of the sense of general guilt I refer to. Attacking the confederate flag, Southern heritage and the South in general is certainly not going to assuage that general guilt. That guilt elected President Obama twice and may carry over to elect another liberal commander in chief if we fail to recognize the problem and face it...Geo
I perceive a vast sense of general guilt in the American people today.
Slavery was wrong and the legacy is sad in many ways, but I do not feel a speck of personal guilt. My ancestors were still in Europe until they started coming through Ellis Island around 1885. Yes, there are serious problems. No, I did not cause them. But you and I are paying for them, and will undoubtedly pay more in the future.
Quote: "However, do you seriously think that we are not all paying reparations everyday? Of course we are, in the form of the welfare state, healthcare, and the very pc you are so devastated by being saddled with (your words)."
We've paid out trillions in "reparations" under Libtards programs like the "Great Society" started by Johnson and they still want more?? Jim
I don't buy it, hook line and sinker, but I might buy some of it. Post slavery, dems are easily the party that legislated racism and can be linked to the lynching mentality. They fabricated the guilt just like they fabricated their makeover. I don't see the guilt you're gripped by having any direct link to slavery.
jOe, I don't see it that simply. Slavery was an evil institution, not just as viewed from our modern day sensibilities,but evil in itself. There are still repercussions of that institution borne by the black race today.
No one in the South today has ever owned a slave, and no black man in America today has ever been a slave. No one anywhere in America that I am aware of would defend the institution today. No one anywhere owns slaves anymore with the possible exception of thug pimps or Arab sheikhs.
Geo, you're forgetting a couple important points. First off, let's not forget that it was mainly African blacks who captured other blacks and sold them into slavery here and in other parts of the world. And there were free blacks in the United States who were owners of black slaves. (reference, pg.454, "A History of the American People", Carmen Syrett, and Wishy. But all of the blame falls upon whites, and as you have told us, Southern white men are piled upon even more so. I'm pretty sick of it, and it must be even more sickening to you knowing that your great granddaddy did not own Tara.
According to sources like this, there are more human slaves in the world now than at any other time in history. The number is now estimated to be 20.9 million people. Human trafficking, particularly in the sex trade is even prevalent in the United States, and a good percentage of the people enslaving others are black pimps who use threats, violent coercion, and addictive drugs to enslave other humans. King Brown has been too mired down in what happened in Alabama 60 years ago to even acknowledge this.
Ed Good is lucky. No one would want him as a slave because he isn't smart enough to pick cotton.
I perceive a vast sense of general guilt in the American people today.
Slavery was wrong and the legacy is sad in many ways, but I do not feel a speck of personal guilt. My ancestors were still in Europe until they started coming through Ellis Island around 1885. Yes, there are serious problems. No, I did not cause them. But you and I are paying for them, and will undoubtedly pay more in the future.
Yep...Geo
I am only half guilty.
Both of my paternal great-grandfathers fought in the Army of Northern Aggression. My maternal great-grandfathers fought in the Army of the Rebellion.
Mike, aside from members' apologia for US slavery above, I don't think guilt should be an issue on either side because later generations learned from it and made amends and are continuing to do so. A casual observer of your posts would recognize that you're not half guilty.
Gents,My Great Grand Father fought in Durells Battery D Pa. Volunteer Artillery. They fought atSouth Mt.,Antietam . and every other major battle of the Army Of The Potomac.He would spit in the face of anyone that would suppsort taking down the Confederate Battle Flag. By the he did not do it to free any damn slaves. Like many others his age he did for adventure , That soon became fight to survive. I learned most of this from my Mother telling his stories after the War.
Regarding the issue of Grant's ownership of slaves, my point is that if a few minutes of Googling debunks the opening sentence of the article, the rest of the article should be given the same scrutiny. There are so many inflammatory(sp?) articles being published and statements being made, it behooves us all to investigate them and point out when they are in error.
As to tearing down the Confederate flag, Louis Farrakhan thinks that is not a step far enough.
JC, I completely acknowledge the point you make. Propaganda is propaganda and if you just accept it without thinking it will invariably lead you astray. My only concern with what you posted previously was that it appeared to be just more propaganda and debunked nothing.
As far as Farrakhan goes, well at least you always know where he's coming from...Geo
The fact of Grant's slave ownership is widely known and the article I linked to can be easily fact checked. The ownership has never been covered up. Grant managed his father inlaw's farm starting in 1854. At some point, the slave was deeded over to him. Grant signed the paper of manumission in 1859. Some of the circumstances may be unclear, but the slave was freed by Grant.
The quotation you presented is factually incorrect. Grant did not own slaves, plural, and did not retain ownership beyond the Civil War.
But Grant's wife did own slaves. And she retained ownership of her slaves until slavery became illegal in the state she resided in. I assume that General Grant resided with her when he was home.
Mike, aside from members' apologia for US slavery above, I don't think guilt should be an issue on either side because later generations learned from it and made amends and are continuing to do so. A casual observer of your posts would recognize that you're not half guilty.
King, you compulsive liar, show us where anyone here made an excuse for their own conduct pertaining to the ownership of slaves in the U.S.
That was over 150 years ago, and so far as we know, no one here was alive, and no-one here in Misfires had slave owning ancestors. Well, you may have been alive back then... I'm surprised you haven't claimed to be a close friend of Methuselah.
You, on the other hand, cannot and will not even acknowledge the fact that blacks both sold and owned slaves, and that there is more human trafficking on earth today than at any other time in history.
Are you so agenda driven in your quest to blame whites of today for sins of the distant past that you feel compelled to tell lies and make an ass of yourself? Never mind, you have already answered that countless times.
Both of my paternal great-grandfathers fought in the Army of Northern Aggression. My maternal great-grandfathers fought in the Army of the Rebellion.
It was obvious to me you were of yankee linage..
Originally Posted By: King Brown
Mike, aside from members' apologia for US slavery above, I don't think guilt should be an issue on either side because later generations learned from it and made amends and are continuing to do so. A casual observer of your posts would recognize that you're not half guilty.
His sick brain needs consoling King...and your just the one to do it.
But Grant's wife did own slaves. And she retained ownership of her slaves until slavery became illegal in the state she resided in. I assume that General Grant resided with her when he was home.
Mike, I expect that you know what an "indentured servant" is. We don't have that anymore in the USA as it went out with slavery. It involved an enforceable contract for personal service for a certain period of time. It was often utilized by penniless emigrants as a way to get started in our country back in the 19th century and before. I expect that is what HoJO had in mind a few posts back when he suggested that there were as many white slaves as black in antebellum America.
Indentured servitude was also one of the ways that a slave could be "freed" providing that the owner consented and the price of the indenture was agreeable to the old master and the new 'employer'. The process was that the slave was manumitted so as to be competent to contract on his or her own account and then entered into the indentured servitude contract for a term agreeable between the parties and for a price (either payable in cash or in agreed payments over the term of the servitude) which was payable to the old master as consideration for the loss (sale) of his property.
That appears to have been what took place when U.S.Grant "freed" his slave in 1859. No one knows, but I think it is likely that Grant was paid for his slave all through the civil war.
And that is all I know about the subject of indentured servitude...Geo
Both of my paternal great-grandfathers fought in the Army of Northern Aggression. My maternal great-grandfathers fought in the Army of the Rebellion.
It was obvious to me you were of yankee linage..
Originally Posted By: King Brown
Mike, aside from members' apologia for US slavery above, I don't think guilt should be an issue on either side because later generations learned from it and made amends and are continuing to do so. A casual observer of your posts would recognize that you're not half guilty.
His sick brain needs consoling King...and your just the one to do it.
sQuealin' jOe I know you are stupid but I thought even you would recognize the sarcasm in my remark.
Geo, do you know whether it is slavery or indentured servitude when a black pimp gets a vulnerable young girl hooked on drugs and uses violence and threats to force her into the sex trade?
Both slavery and indentured servitude may have gone out with the Civil War, but it still happens today, and King Brown won't even acknowledge it because of who some of the most egregious violators are.
Geo, do you know whether it is slavery or indentured servitude when a black pimp gets a vulnerable young girl hooked on drugs and uses violence and threats to force her into the sex trade?
Is it possible sQuealin' jOe has been a victim of systemic intelligencism all his life? Perhaps we should demand our government create a diversity program for stupid people like jOe. Maybe require that every company hire a stupid, ignorant bigot so that there is more diversity of opinion. Maybe give the victims of intelligencism an extra 600 points on their SAT so that they can get into their local junior college.
No, I do not know the answer to that question Keith but neither would be an enforceable servitude under the law...Geo
Exactly! So perhaps we white folks should be getting some kinds of Affirmative Actions or other freebies or reparations because of the number of white girls who have been forced into prostitution by black pimps.
It's happening today, as we speak. But Libtards like King Brown would rather blame us for what happened 60, or even over 150 years ago. It's not apologia, as King posted earlier. That was another of his many lies. It is a fact that does not mesh well with his Liberal Left agenda. I don't have any white guilt at all. But I have been taxed many thousands of dollars over my working life because Liberal idiots think I should be punished for something that neither I nor my ancestors did. I would be happier if that money was used to buy a one-way ticket back to Africa for any black who feels entitled to my earnings because of slavery that happened over 150 years ago.
I just want to know where I'm supposed to go to pick up my 'white privilege'...Geo
You have options here Geo with little or no guilt necessary. You could go the career politician route say in the mold of a sen byrd who has klan scum roll off his back like marsh water rolls off a duck. Or, you could follow the gore mold, who can shed the tobacco dynasty and interesting voting record of his old man by living in a mansion that draws enough juice to run a decent size town.
Second, there're actressing schools, like the dolezal academy, or enroll in pretty much any 'university'. You have to start on the ground floor, but you could join up with one of the pro traveling loot and pillage circus'.
I think, go with your strong suit, not to mention time saver. Make an immediate, moderately impressive donation to all the dem hopefuls, and then, when a nominee is selected. Well, your level of support would probably have to be funneled through foreign countries, maybe a bunch of them. At that point, you won't have to pick up anything, 'white privilege' will come knocking at your door.
Best part, as mentioned earlier, the guilt vanishes like magic and you get the privilege of dictating to others what they should feel guilty about. Fair warning, for this advice, I'm coming back for a favor. You're going to have to exempt this forum from having to feel guilty about our guns, or buy me a six pack of medicine.
sQuealin' jOe I don't have any Black relations but wouldn't mind if I did.
I watched the video. I saw some US citizens exercising their right to bare arms.
I can just hear you after you watched that video, "WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE need to get universal background checks. Those big Black men with those big guns scare MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Where is my bOyfriend? I want to play 'Deliverance.' WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
I do agree with you that it is curious that that open carry march didn't make it onto CNN or MSNBC or CBS or ABC. Kind of like they are unfair and partial in what they cover. That maybe they don't want to publicize anything but stories about gentle loving Blacks, like Michael Brown, being gunned down by violent racist cops (sarcasm, jOe).
I always thought the confederate flag was just a way of saying “[censored] the Yankees”. Guess you can’t express that sentiment no more.
Jim and/or keith will be along shortly to barf up a word salad of bullshit about me being a libtard but, how is the Republican Party standing up to this cultural Marxist lynch mob? Piling on. They were never with you. Still the party of Lincoln.
6/26/15: This is dangerous and offensive.
This is brave.
On towards helter skelter. Hoist the rainbow fag. We need another General Lee to finally put the republic out of it's misery.
Hey RyanF, it was you who finally admitted to being a Liberal or Libtard.
But that was after a long time of claiming pretending to be a Conservative. Then you told us you suddenly changed after Rick Santorum broke your heart and didn't side 100% with gun owners. Remember this?
Originally Posted By: RyanF
I wondered about Rick. I know some pro-gun people don’t trust him one bit.
Soros is a progressive trouble maker of the highest order but he was not a Nazi collaborator.
I don’t claim to be conservative. Once upon a time…not anymore. Actually Rick Santorum is the poster boy of what turned me but that’s another story.
Now you want us to still trust you and even consider anything you have to say? Screw you liar. Funny how you don't apply the same standards of purity to the Liberal Left Democrats that you support and defend. And you go so far as to defend Soros after he has admitted on videotape to helping the Nazi's. Have you been drinking King Brown's Award Winning Wine which was actually made by someone else? Two of a kind.
I always thought the confederate flag was just a way of saying “[censored] the Yankees”. Guess you can’t express that sentiment no more.
Well, now that you mention it, that's exactly what the rebel flag's about. Doesn't and never did have a thing to do with slavery. That's a bit of revised history that just happens to be convenient today. Black leaders hate the flag because it does pretty much represent the southern States' vigorous resistance to integration in the 1960s. Slavery, the American "peculiar institution" was generally accepted before the war, and the abolitionists were the hysteric fringe of society at the time.
All Appomattox courthouse established once and for all was that the rights of the states were subordinate to the union, and that the states and all of the people were forever more subjects of the person occupying the white house in Washington from time to time. At least (for now) we still have term limits on the monarch.
Now the battle is about which of the three branches of government will rule. We seem to have three legislative branches presently, with the actual elected legislature being hindmost in the race...Geo
Er, I’ve been a libertarian for a long time. We don’t like leftism.
I never defended Soros. I pointed out it is a long stretch to call him a Nazi collaborator. I never defended Sanger or PP either. I pointed out it was a really long stretch to call it black genocide.
You’re a binary thinker (and a piss-poor thinker) which makes it worse. You not very good at comprehending nuance or scale. I think you might have a learning disability. How many chromosomes do you have? I’ll give you credit for intuitively understanding eugenics was very bad. A defective like you would have been a target for sterilization. Today we know the science was flawed so you have nothing to worry about. Carefully read that last sentence before you go off the rails.
RyanF, I guess now we can expect you to hide like a coward behind the Libertarian moniker. You said that Soros was NOT a Nazi collaborator... even after he has admitted to it. You still haven't backed away from your claim that the birthplace of Eugenics was Michigan. Was there a Michigan in ancient Greece? You posted links in defense of Planned Parenthood that included an article written by an author who was clearly biased, offered no census or statistical data to back up his claims, and who was a recipient of large sums of money from Planned Parenthood. Then you acted like a whiny little b*tch when things clearly showed you were an agenda driven idiot.
Insult me all you want. Your words and actions prove that you are a Liberal apologist, a liar, and a crybaby assh*le. Since you won't eat crow after having been proved wrong, why don't you go screw a crow.
OK, here's a question. The South Carolina shooter who wore a Confederate flag was in the minority, but because he displayed that flag, it automatically becomes a symbol of hatred and racism that must be abolished.
So even though they are also a small minority... since there have been a tiny number of cops who were racists and who unjustly killed, beat, or falsely arrested blacks and other minorities while wearing a U.S. flag on their uniform, would Southerners be equally justified in demanding that the U.S Flag be removed from State and Federal property? Could Japanese descendents of those Japanese held in interment camps during WWII also claim that the stars and stripes is a symbol of hatred and racism?
I shouldn't give people ideas. The way we're headed, the U.S, flag will probably be replaced by the Faggot Flag within a few election cycles.
I wonder what percentage of Confederate soldiers who fought and died actually were connected to, or profited from, slavery. I'd guess is was a very small minority.
Anyone notice certain so-called Libertarians who feel that abortion and Bruce Jenner changing sex is nobody's business remain totally silent about a majority of Southerner's desire to keep displaying the flag of their heritage?
keith: this is really encouraging...you actually made an adult post here...impressive.
and here is an interesting link regarding origins and causes of the civil war. few white southerners owner slaves and a few black southerners also owned slaves...magine dat.
