Raimey,

What are the main differences between the Saur Grade 40 and their Grade45?

Thanks.

bc

Cat, those are really Sauer's U.S. of A. Modell designations, I believe. But what separates the Sauer Modell Nr. 40E from the Sauer Modell Nr. 45 would be the tube steel, gold inlays & the piece of lumber. The 45 would have had the best piece of lumber that one could buy. Then the Sauer Modell Nr. 60(Meisterwerke) would wear embellishment atop that along with a skeleton toplever, etc. All had upper & lower hinged scears. This just off the top of my head and a guesstimate, but if we could equate the U.S. of a. Modells to the German inlands then we may have the full answer.

So....., I think the Modells 40E/45 is akin to the Modell Nr. XXVII and the Modell Nr. 45 would wear Special Krupp Gewehrlauf Stahl.

The Modell Nr. 60, for which you didn't inquire, would be the German inland Sauer Modell Nr. XVIII and would be Chopperlump.

Anyone else feel free to chime in.....(and correct me).

I would say the function & internals would be the same across the board but the embellishment would vary.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Thank you, Sir. I appreciate that you have always been willing to share your knowledge.

Bob

Not trying to kidnap the thread, but I think the "E" in 40E likely designates ejectors.
Mike

For sure not hijack there Ford, keep adding....


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Raimey--Thanks for your comments. Bob and I were discussing my Grade 40 16ga on another forum. I was comparing mine to the 3 Grade 45's currently on Steve Barnett's list. Then I was reviewing what Jeff Stephens wrote in part IV of his series on Sauers ("A Primer on the Scalloped Boxlocks"), Double Gun Journal, Summer 2004. Stephens indicated that the Daly catalog said the 45's had gold inlays, but he then states there are known examples without the inlays. Stephens also includes a photo of a 45 without inlays but with wedges of engraving on the barrels, which he states "will be found on the North American export Grade 45" (and shows clearly in his photo). However, none of the 45's on Barnett's list have either gold inlays or the engraving on the barrels. Nor dp they have the special Krupp steel barrels. I read the same thing about the steel (Fluid Steel, Krupp-Essen) that I find on my Grade 40. In fact, other than minor differences in engraving, I can't spot any significant differences between Barnett's 45's (especially the 20 and the first of the 2 12's he shows) and my 40.

Stephens also writes that in Grade 40 he knows of only 2 16's and 3 20's. I have no idea how many others are out there. Maybe I really do own one of only 2 16's!

If you don't have one, I suggest you obtain a copy of "Der Waffenschmied" no.49 from the German Gun Collectors Assn., it tells the story of J.P. Sauer& Son.
Mike

If you don't have one, I suggest you obtain a copy of "Der Waffenschmied" no.49 from the German Gun Collectors Assn., it tells the story of J.P. Sauer& Son.
Mike

Mr. King:

The Modell 40 you mention could be an upgrade, & that is an easy assessment. But the lack of Gold inlays is a horse of a different colour. Maybe some of the 1st Modells were devoid of Gold? I wonder what Ken G. has to say?


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Here are 2 45s according to seller? No gold?


My 1907 SD&G catalog mentions gold on a 45 also?

Great effort. I would say the easy answer is they are upgrades of a lower modell with the firearms merchant pushing them up a notch for additional Benjamins. Now indeed if an upgrade, they should fetch more funds.

>>Where in the World is(Carmen Sandiego)<< Ken Georgi? - Your kids ever watch that show?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Too Fellas, how late are we talking? Many times on later guns and for sure post WWII the inland modell designation was stamped on the aft lug? Anyone hit the Sauer ledgers for the real answers?



Serbus,

Raimey
rse

No gold inlays on the guns pictured above, and no wedges of engraving on the barrels. And given that we see "Sauer and Son", that's a pretty clear indicator that they're guns made for export to America.

Checking all 3 of Barnett's Prussian Sauers listed as 45's on gunsinternational, all 3 are marked Fluid Steel. Not a one with special steel. All the markings line up with my 40. I don't see anything to convince me that they're actually 45's.

It might be that Barnett's guns are indeed Grade 45s. That could possibly mean Larry's 40 is the one miss stated and is in fact a Grade 45.

I really don't think so, unless the ledgers show such. Hendrik Freühaf may know. At best they are upgrades of a lower rung Modell.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse