doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Detachable Scope Mounts

Gentlemens:

I am looking for advice and suggestions on scope mounts for a Fraser single shot rifle with a full length rib. I would like the rib to be as clean as possible when the scope is removed. I was figuring on dovetailing the mounts into the rib, or perhaps even making them integral. This latter could be done with something like the Leupold mounts.

Something more or less traditional would be ideal.

Thanks in advance for you help,

Glenn

How about these, they look smart but costly I'll bet.

http://smithson-gunmaker.com/mounts.htm

Do you remember the rings made by Lehman circa 1960? I first saw them in Gun Digest. They were to fit internally adjustable scopes to target bases. I had a set on a 44 1/2 custom with a quarter rib that was essentially a long target scope block. The Lehman rings are split vertically, held together by four small socket head cap screws - maybe #6 x 1/2". If you machined locating pads into the sides of the rib, there would be almost nothing to see when the scope was off. Disadvantage is that you have to sight in every time the scope is reinstalled s the rings will be off the scope.

I will photograph and e-mail to you the scope mounts for my take down high wall by Classic Arms. They are tip off incorporated into a rib, somewhat like the above photo of Smithson's. There are plugs to fill the holes when the scope is off, so vey clean appearance.

The Smithson website doesn't describe anything like the neat system pictured. Do you have more information on the pictured mounting system?

Glenn, have you considered the Talley or, alternatively, the early Kimber or Warne Premier mounting system(s), very similar if not identical to the earlier Lenard Brownell and G&H styles of lever-detachable rings? The Kimbers/Warnes use a standard 3/8" dovetail and the Talleys require a larger one; you can't get much lower and more unobtrusive than a dovetail in a rib. Of course you could always use the Leupold QR gunsmith bases inletted into the rib as long as you had clearance for the side levers but IMO the levers belong on the rings and not the rifle.

The rings are available in several heights and can be had in either a simple non-detachable model or a quick-detachable style with levers or knobs. A heavy kicker will need some sort of recoil shoulder. These rings will return to zero within 1/2 MOA or less, proven by personal test.

I wrote an article on these mounting systems several years ago but events intervened and it's never been published. I use them regularly and recommend them highly.
Regards, Joe

Glenn,

Have something very similar to what J.D. described.

A number of years ago found a Webley falling block action and had it barrelled in hand-detachable .375 and .300 flanged magnum. Set up both barrels to use a scope with older Warne QD rings that slid onto a milled rib. Recoil stop for the .375 barrel was the back sight. The .300 barrel has two flat-sided short pins: one that screwed into the rib at a point down the rib to use an EER scope, and the other at the same distance as the back sight of the .375 so I can just move the scope from one barrel to the other and reset the height and windage adjustments.

Key was once Warne brought out those new levers that you can ratchet so as to tighten/loosen regardless of how close to the barrel itself you are. For those new Warne rings, just mill off the integral recoil stop so that you can use the back sight or the pins you set in the rib. Oh, scope is a Leupold Vari-X III 1.5x5. LOP is 14-1/2".

Works very well in the field.

If this is confusing shout and I'll try to take some pix.

Regards, Tim

I have a HiWall with Burgess metalwork, barrel has a quarter rib, the rear of the rib is machined as a Redfield Jr. scope base. No obstructions when the scope is off except the tops of the two rear locking screws which are quite low and not in the line of the iron sights.

Gentlemens:

Thank you all for your help. I have limited experience with these new fangled internal adjustment scope and their mounts. This has been most helpful.

I like the looks of those Smithson bases on the double rifle. That certainly is an option. Thanks for that picture, Rob.

The rib dimensions from an original Fraser are .460 at the breech end tapering to .350 at the muzzle. It would not be much of a stretch to make it .500" wide for a 1/2" dovetail. Another option would be to bump out the rib to .500" at the two mount points for a 1/2" dovetail. I would have to draw that for a look. It might resemble a snake that has eaten a rodent. Inserting a wider piece such as was done by Smithson is yet another option.

Mr. Steele: I checked the Warne web site and was unable to locate any "premier" rings. They did have a Maxima grooved receiver ring set that seemed to fit the description, but I saw no dovetail dimensions. These look to have some promise though...One could mill off the locating lug and fit up something more discrete as Mr. Carney suggests.

The Talley might be a good option if one went the snake and rodent route. Unlike the other Warne detachable they don't use the locking screw as a recoil lug. I don't want to mill a cross slot in the rib.

Any other ideas or thoughts would be most welcome. I would just as soon stay with currently available rings so I could work out a design and stay with it for a while.

Mr. Carney, I would really appreciate a picture of your Webley with the Leupold 1.5 - 5x. Both the mounting system and the scope location would be of great interest.

Thank you all for your help.

Glenn

Glenn, unfortunately Warne has discontinued their smaller Premier mounting system and so components are available only from ebay and bench fabrication. Talleys are still available and I imagine that the original G&H top-mount styles are still available from Billingsley (formerly Billingsley & Brownell).

IMO most modern smiths make their ribs entirely too high and awkward-looking. I build a fair number of single shots and have had good luck using low ribs that DO NOT extend back over the receiver, with the rear scope ring mounted immediately in front of the receiver. I'm 6'4" now, shrunk an inch or so in my old age, and I have no difficulty with eye relief using Leupold and other scopes, even with pull lengths well over 14".

An alternative recoil shoulder can be provided by milling shallow depressions (~ 1/16" or less) across the rib's top surface that match the full dimensions of the rings's bases. The rings then will sit down into the depressions and be locked by the shallow shoulders. Or unobtrusive horizontal cross-pins can be installed across the dovetail just below the rib's top line, to act as shoulders along the lower front corners of the rings. Don't forget the lesson of Paul Simon's Fifty Ways song...
Good luck, Joe

Joe:

Make a new plan, Stan?

No tall rib. I would post a pitcher of what I have in mind, but Photobucket won't play nice with my computer today. In any event the rib will be based on true events, as accurate as I can replicate it from pictures of an original. Thanks to the generosity of a lurker here, I have some very good pictures to work with.

There are a couple socially acceptable ways of shouldering the recoil. The hole in the rib ala Smithson in the picture above is one. I might be inclined towards two smaller holes with mating pins in the bottom of the rings. Setting the rings down in a shallow mortise would certainly work, but the visual impact is a little greater than I would like.

I will do a little more poking around. A letter to Warne inquiring into the dovetail sizes of their grooved receiver rings is next.

Thanks!

Glenn