doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com This is a Hoot: Parker DHE For Sale

I just couldn't let this one pass. After a vigorous discussion on another thread of the merits of certain collectors' associations prohibiting the offering for sale of that which they collect on their respective websites, I notice this thread on parkergun.org at 12:30 11/6 CST:

Title: "Parker DHE--Want to Sell"

Clicking on the thread, the poster who gives his name, and is available by personal message e-mail says,

"Hello, I know I can't advertise on this sight [sic], but does anyone know where I can advertise my Parker? Signed, Name xxx."

When I clicked back here there were already three responses from the usual suspects, one even mentioning this site. Next there will be a flurry of activity, discussing whether the posting violates the rules, e-mails will be sent to webmasters who might even be gainfully employed at their day jobs, then the thread disappears into the black hole of censorship...yadda, yadda, yadda... and, once again, form triumphs over substance.

By now the guy probably has cut his deal. Business as usual! EDM

A prime example of why the PGCA rule against selling guns is so dumb in the first place.

Agreed: Along with refusing to use my real name on a public forum that's another reason I don't post there. Even the most unabashed gun grabber would probably admit that 70+ year old double shotguns hold little if any interest to the criminal element and thats the only valid reason I can think of to disallow their sale.
Jim

Contrary to popular misconception, rules are not meant to be broken but, conversely, are meant to be adhered to.
Anyone who knowingly breaks a rule for his own personal gain is of low moral character and anyone who advises others to do the same is of equally low moral character.
Wether the rules make any sense to everyone, or not, they are still (until changed) the rules - period.

Which is why- Dean, you would have my vote on the PGCA for a BOD post-if (well, you know the rest-let's let it rest)-because, amigo mio- you and I believe, as did Orwell- that "All animals are equal" not that some are "More Equal-er" than others-The Army might phrase it more harshly than did Limey author Eric Blair-but the point is the same-Good on you--wish more of the elitist world would agree- "Tricky Dick Nixon" my C-I-C during my last 4 years- lied to the American public about Laos, Cambodia, his wife's fur coat, the price of the K-Mart dog collar their cocker spaniel "Checkers" wore when he went out to crap in the Rose Garden- "Slick Willie the Draft Dodger" wouldn't have known the truth if it jumped out and bit him on his kneecap-and the "Beat Goes On"--I wish you nothing but the best in your bid for a BOD seat on the PGCA- a solid voice of reason in a sea of discord and petty squabbles (IMO)..RWTF

I think in effect guns are being bought and sold on the PGCA site all the time. At a "subliminal" level if you will. After all that is how Dean found out about his beautiful 16ga hammer gun. Someone had to come over to the PGCA site to "advertise" it. Dean didn't do anything wrong, but they should have been able to sell that gun on our site in the first place. IMO, it is absolutly rediculous that collectors of the finest American made double shotgun can't buy, trade and sell these fine doubles to fellow members. And I found out that the reason we don't sell guns on our site is we are not trusted not to pick each other's guns apart. This is simply fixed, do it in private. This does not make any sense to me. I think that the only thing keeping this old rule in place is old mindsets and it is time to revisit it. Lets take the cloak and dagger out of it and make it right for us that play by the rules.

Tim

Tim, you make good points and I can't disagree with any of them.

Dean

IMO, the official reason they don't allow guns for sale - 'legal and/or BATF' is just phooey. There are plenty of other sites that allow guys to hook up for gun sales and they don't seem to be going to jail. The other excuse - 'people can always advertise in the Parker Pages' is just as lame. In 2008 that's like using a carrier pigeon instead of email.

The real reason? I think it's to protect the all-important dealers who are part of the PGCA. I can't offer a gun for sale, but if I hang up a shingle and become a dealer then it's OK. Odd.

All I'm going to say on this subject is:
What just happened on the Parker site, happens with some regularity. You just have to be quick on the PM's if your interested in buying. If they would allow guns to be sold, it would eliminate this problem.

The humor in all of this is that I never had a gun to sell that I would have tried to peddle on the Internet. Every Parker I have ever owned I bought one-on-one face-to-face, mostly from top-rung dealers. I have never bid on or bought a gun on any Internet site, and don't even surf the net for Parkers. There is a waiting list for some of my seminal wall hangers...for when the time comes. The AAH Pigeon Gun on the cover of my new book will probably go through Jim Julia's auction, when the time comes.

I have no previous or immediate vested interest in whether the PGCA allows or disallows buy/sell postings. But as a keen observer, I see hypocrisy in a self-defeating rule that is antagonistic to the very core interest of PGCA (and LCSCA) membership goals--the networking and free exchange of topical information by and between like-minded individuals. An if anyone followed my original post to parkergun.org to see what's what, enforcement can be catch as catch can...and often silly.

Case in point: Several years ago someone posted on the PGCA site something that could be construed to be an offer to sell, if you heaped on much paranoia and anal-retentive speculation. Actually the guy was looking for an appraisal for a special type of family heirloom...so I simply posted "Call Me" and gave my number. As it was, the gun was a rare half-frame of a grade I didn't have in my photo inventory. I had heard that such a gun was in my neighborhood, and there was a Double Gun shoot in Aurora IL that very weekend. If he was attending, I wanted him to bring the gun so I could take some pictures. The guy called me to say that he was from Colorado. End of story, almost...

Pretty soon some anonymous poster got on taking high umbrage that I was "leaving him and other potential buyers behind." Then the thread got into the relative merits of whether I could post "Call Me" and my phone number. So what disappeared? Not the supposed offer to sell, but my name and phone number! I didn't notice this till some time later, because the web police seldom or never announce their censorship--threads just disappear. Maybe somebody e-mailed me; I forget. But when I e-mailed the webmaster, who is a friend, and has been in my home, he reamed me out, not for offering to buy a gun on the website, but for failing to fully state my pure intentions!

Meanwhile, the supposed offer to sell was still heading up the thread, and is probably still there today. Much ado about nothing. And when I went to Aurora Double Gun Days the local owner of the 1/2-frame was there with his gun, and I forgot to bring my camera. Ces't la vie! EDM