doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Pre War Light Varmint Chambering

Gentlmens:

I solicit your thoughts on the choice of a rimmed cartridge chambering for a restoration of a light pre war varminter. As my interests have always been on pre WWI rifles, I would appreciate your learned (and opinionated) input.

Starting with the venerable .22 Hornet, what is the current thinking on this one? Seems to me there has always been some stigma of accuracy issues attached to it. Also, it seems that there was a bit of waffling on bore diameter.

Thanks in advance for you help.

Glenn

Frankly I've seen way too many Hornets that were a real PIA. I'd consider an R2 Lovell in that capacity, perhaps a 218, even a K hornet.

They can be made to work - but I would go for a custom reamer, making a tight chamber. That would be the single most important factor in getting good accuracy from this round. The standard CIP chamber is a bit 'generous' IMO, even though good accuracy can be obtained with it. It's just that it requires some specialized loading techniques.

Mine has a standard chamber and won't shoot at all with any factory ammo I tried, but the reloads do fine - and I need to do following:

- Necksize with the Lee Collet die set - it's the only one that won't stretch the (pretty delicate) brass when sizing.
- Seat the bullets with a competition-type seater - I use a Forster micrometric seater, to guarantee minimal bullet runout, and seat the bullets into the rifling.

My best loads were with VV N110 and 45gr bullets, but then my rifle has a standard 1:16" twist, so won't stabilize anything heavier.

I even got some pretty good results with the H&N Hi-speed bullets, which are swaged lead, then copper-plated and with a plastic coating.
Older rifles were .223, I believe, but all modern ones are .224.

I worked up loads using the ladder technique (and to my surprise, it does work...), and managed some very nice groups with it. And the rifle, I hear you ask? Of course it is a Martini! :-)

Martinibelgium has it right on the Hornet; a custom tight chamber often makes a great deal of difference in accuracy. It ALWAYS makes a great deal of difference in case longevity. The case is so small that weighing each charge is worthwhile, as well. A .224 barrel w/1/14" twist gives you a much larger selection of bullets than the old guys ever had, and the bullets themselves are better and can be matched to the target: frangible for little critters, less so for bigger.

K-Hornets have the reputation of being less "picky" than the standard case, but I don't have personal experience of the K-variation.

.25 Hornet is a better choice if you intend to casy your own bullets. Don't have any experience with the .270 REN; I think it is a later development than you are considering anyway.

"casy" = "cast". Should have paid attention in typing class....

Glenn, I've had some very nice .22 Hornet rifles that were not very accurate. I always laid the blame on the poor quality of the brass. Perhaps some of the imported brass is of better quality. As the others said a proper chamber might also be part of the difficulty.
I think the real nostalgia caliber is .22-3000 but I would go with .218 if I were actually going to shoot it much.

IMO:

standard Hornet reamers cut oversize necks, Ks cut tighter necks, tighter is better, Lee collet sizer is required for best results.

22-3000 and Lovells and 25-20SS have brass/shellholder issues, I avoid them.

219 Zipper is a tack-driver but dies can be expensive, I use 30-30 brass for a built-in tight-neck setup.

218 Bee & 25-20 WCF, see Hornet comments above.
Regards, Joe

If you want an accurate, trouble free .22 Hornet, just buy a new CZ bolt gun [item #527, methink]. All it needs is a Lee collet die and it's EASY. FWIW, I like the Euro-stocked, iron-sighted version the best, but the American Model is just fine, too.

However, for a custom modern light sporter, I'd skip the K-Hornet, tho it WILL avoid a lot of the standard Hornet finicky-ness. Instead go straight to the .218 Bee. In this area, NW Ohio -- West End of Lake Erie, one of the long time noted accuracy gunsmiths has been Gary Cleland.. Gary's current passion is that of building hi-zoot 6 and 6.5MM ultra-long range critter swatting equipment.

However, in 'the day', when small Martini actioned, walk-about varmint rifles were a minor rage, he built a few hunnert or so. ;~`) [which used item is avidly sought after, locally] Choice of caliber: .218 Bee. Many reasons, but essentially the quiet, tractable behavior of a Hornet, with none of fernickitty load development variations.

I'm plumb out of stamina to further elucidate, but if you'd like a detailed rundown, call Gary at Cleland's Outdoor world in Swanton, Ohio on Airport Hwy. If he's not off shooting Cape buff with his self-made pukka-Sahib 8-bore flintlock , or out in winter Nebraska potting 'yotes on the snow pack with some zippy custom varmit gun, he'd be happy to address the question.

One of his sons was a world-class pro-archer and company rep, another is a several times N'atl muzzleloading rifle champ, and a grandson is lookin' good for more family titles. If it shoots spiral-grooved projectiles, he's a modest guy who knows the answers.

Just don't ask his opinion of Spanish shotguns, since Richland Arms was just about twenty miles up the road in Mich, and he saw WAAAAY too many soft sears, in those days.

And a PS: the necked down .357 Maximum to .222, is considered to be a sorta underground modern classic. Nice in a small Martooni, for those who want to bother. A .222 Rem rimmed, basically. Not there's anything wrong with that!!!

and a PPS: Ross Seyfried published an extensive exegesis on the standard Hornet in Rifle/Handloader. After a long run-thru of the tweaks and techniques to get the ca'tridge to run all proper like, he ended the article with a comment somewhat as in..."or you could just re-chamber the gun to K-Hornet, and skip all the foregoing."

Does the cartridge need to be pre ww1?.....6x70R?

Just a thought.

Mark

Were it mine, I'd chamber it in .218 Mashburn Bee. Nice sharp shoulder, more than enough velocity for 250 yard varminting, easy to find parent brass. If I needed more oomph than that, I'd do a .219 Improved Zipper. Same excellent features (use either .30-30 or .25-35 brass), an additional 100-125 yards of effective range. Both would have been appropriate in the 1930s.