doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Pedersoli percussion/ML doubles, comments?

So as not to highjack Bill/Oregon's thread, I'm asking this separately (tho I'm interested in the answers he gets):

Does anyone have any actual hands-on experience of the Pedersoli percussion doubles sold by Cabella's (and maybe others)? I'm not interested in pretty, just function--do they shoot where pointed and hold up well? Is you experience with black powder or with substitutes? What sizes of shot were you generally using? Which guage did you choose and why?

Are there similar new ML doubles on the market that I should look at? Dixie?

I've been the old route...for a guy wanting to sample muzzle loading shotgunning I don't think there's a better gun out there.

I would go with one with fixed chokes...screw in chokes have no place on a black powder shotgun gun.

I bought one at my first rendezvous, new and unfired, for $200, in 1991 or '2. Since then, I've had a million dollars worth of fun and won a wall full of medals with it. The Pedersolis are the best of the bunch, IMO.

Thanks, guys. Any recommendations on which guage to get? I want it for informal (REAL informal...) trap and upland. Always wanted another 10; anybody hefted a Pedersoli M/L 10?

If you can find one of the older 10s, before choke tubes, they are very nice guns and have some extra weight to keep recoil to a minimum. I had one that had silver colored locks and very nice wood. Unfortunately, I always shot my 12 better, so I sold the 10. As with any muzzle loader, you can shoot any lighter load you choose, and enjoy lighter recoil and component savings. I think the older 10 I had was called the Magnum or Waterfowl model, or something similar.

Mike, I've got an original WM Moore 12 gauge muzzle loader. Not sure of birthdate, but its got to be 1800's. Very shootable, killed 10 pidgeons my first time out with it. Haven't shot it in 20 years. Email me for pics and details if interested. brdslayr@clearwire.net

I've had both the Pedersoli 12 and 10 gauge and have also owned a couple of Navy Arms shotguns. I currently only have the Pedersoli 12 and consider it a fine shotgun. The one I have does have the screw in chokes which do seem a bit out of place. I've shot lots of ducks and geese at my North Dakota farm with this shotgun. The 10 gauge never really fit me and always seemed to bruise my cheek, so I ended up getting rid of it. The 12 has never been a problem for me in this respect. As far as fit and finish goes, there is no comparison between it and the three original (all English) percussion shotguns I own, but it is still a fine shooter.

I think that you will do very well with a Pedersoli or any other Italian m/l shotgun as long as you are willing to live within their limitations.

No, they do not have the f&f of the finest originals. In terms or market placement they come closer to the old Belgian "trade" shotguns. In other words, they are safe enough but they will win no beauty contests. In fact, the best of the modern Italian guns have better finish than many of the cheaper originals.

Things to look for:

1. Locks. In the past, many Italian guns had locks that were indifferently assembled and/or had poorly-finished and hardened lock parts. IMHO a "lock tuning" should be considered a part of the cost of a gun.

2. Barrel regulation. Some of these guns may not "shoot together" or "where they look". The same remedies apply to these guns as to "britch loaders", including sending the things back, if one can.

3. Stock fit, both to the shooter and in terms of lock and barrel bedding.

4. Ramrods. "Stock" ramrods are largely flimsy and useless. Consider a replacement rod to be a part of the cost of the gun. (Dixie Gun Works sells good ones. Other purveyors might, too.) Or, one could make one's own without a lot of trouble.

Note: If Cabela's choke tubed guns do not suit Dixie Gun Works offers very similar guns that have "fixed chokes". It may be possible to have these guns "jug choked" a' la V. M. Starr with a bit of trouble in getting through the guns' chrome-lined bores.

There is a lot of loading data out there and most of it is quite good. With conventionally choked guns "card and fiber" wad columns can be troublesome in terms of loading and performance. For these guns, Circle Fly's felt wads may be the best way to go. "Jug choked" and cylinder bored guns usually do well with conventional wad columns.

If it were me, I would get one of Dixie's guns if I could find a gunsmith that could "jug choke" the barrels, though this is not always easy to do, anymore. Either that or have both barrels choked cylinder bore either by means of reaming or c/b choke tubes. This "choke" is how most of the original guns were choked and it is amazing how well it can work if the gun is loaded correctly and ranges are not ridiculously long.

One thing I would look up is V. M. Starr's book "The Muzzle Loading Shotgun, It's [sic] Care And Use". This "little book" is a fun read and I believe that it is still the best source on the subject. It was written by a man who had truly "been there and done that". It is a fun read, too, whether one agrees with the old man, or not. The book has been out of print for some years but it is reprinted in several web sites.

If one were really serious about m/l shotguns I would recommend ordering out a "bespoke" custom gun from a good maker. The gun will cost about as much as a modern high quality shotgun but "a good gun costs what a good gun costs". That way. one will learn what all the fuss is about with the finest originals without endangering fine old guns that cannot be replaced.

thanks, again to all for the info and experience. I notice that Dixie has the fixed choke versions for a reasonable price; I'll look at Navy Arms, too. I've used several cylinder bore shotguns in the past and am accustomed to "regulating" the patterning by fooling with shot hardness and size, so cylinder guns don't scare me (much).

One issue we have with black powder here in SoCal is fire. I'm especially sensitive to this since I stand fire watch as a volunteer when we are in Red Alert weather, which is increasingly often. Do black powder doubles send any more flaming debris out the muzzle than ctg. guns? Might limit where and when one can shoot the front stuffer (although almost all areas including outdoor ranges are closed during Red Alerts anyway--which truly sucks since it even happens during quail season now).

Mike: I have owned several of the Pedersolis over the years. Like Alex, I found the 10-gauge bruised the underside of my cheek bone. The 12 is better, but those with the screw-in chokes handle like clubs owing to thickness required of the barrels at the muzzle. I would look for the ones with cylinder bores as they are not only traditional, they just plain handle better. I did some patterning work with the guns, and though there was always room for improvement, the best patterns I got were with one of the unchoked Dixie 20s. I regret having traded away that little shottie, as it was the nicest of all the Pedersolis I have had in every respect.