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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 59
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 59 |
Have acquired a Westley Richards, ser# c-5491, 12 ga, 28" bbls, double triggers, hammerless non ejector boxlock. Only #,s on bbl flats are 1686. On each bbl JPC, crossed swords & crossed axes, ser # 5491 and an AB stamped on forearm lug. On each chamber rim 2L4 and 1686 on ejector. On rib Westley Richards Co London.
On forearm iron July 1, 1873.
On water table Anson & Deeley patent 1686.On each side of frame has Westley Richards & Co.
Am trying to learn what grade and when made.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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I have no idea as to grade but my listing shows it was made in 1880.. MDC
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 235 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 235 Likes: 1 |
Gordon, could the prefix to the serial number be a "G" rather then a "C"? Brown's London Gunmakers list the following as prefix letters: A, E, G, K, O and T (but no C).
If it is, in fact, a G then this series began at 5001 in 1902 and finished at 6588 in 1939. The date given by MDC above is for the no-prefix series and was mostly used for best guns, the prefix series were used on lesser quality guns.
There should be letters on the proofmarks with the crossed swords (mostly likely a date stamp but there is another use for a similar mark). The crossed axes is most likely the crossed sceptre marks and they have a crown on top and letters as well. If you can more fully describe these marks (photos are best) then it is possible that a more accurate date can be given.
Regards - Ian Forrester
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lan,the only place the letter is with the ser# is on the trigger guard tang and it sure looks like a c. There is a stamp on top between the crossed swords but can,t tell what it is. I forgot to post that there is a crown mark on bbls. The lever is fully engraved and has Westley Richards patent on it. It has high figured wood and the checkering goes all the way around the wrist. Its unlike the pictures in DGJ of the Sherman Bell article about WR.
Thanks! Gordon
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,250
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,250 |
There is a "B" prefix - not a best quality gun/rifle!
So says my old 360, and DGJ's Sherman Bell.
Summer 1998, p 10.
Last edited by Lowell Glenthorne; 11/26/06 07:35 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 433
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Gordon, could the prefix to the serial number be a "G" rather then a "C"? Brown's London Gunmakers list the following as prefix letters: A, E, G, K, O and T (but no C).
If it is, in fact, a G then this series began at 5001 in 1902 and finished at 6588 in 1939. The date given by MDC above is for the no-prefix series and was mostly used for best guns, the prefix series were used on lesser quality guns.
There should be letters on the proofmarks with the crossed swords (mostly likely a date stamp but there is another use for a similar mark). The crossed axes is most likely the crossed sceptre marks and they have a crown on top and letters as well. If you can more fully describe these marks (photos are best) then it is possible that a more accurate date can be given.
No, the A, B, C, D, E and P prefix numbers are included in the main and auxiliary numbering systems. Only the G, K, O and T prefixes had separate numbering systems. Based on the number, 1879-1880 sounds right. The descriptions of the proof marks don't really match what should be there. There should be two sets of crossed sceptres, one with BPC in the angles, and another with a V. If you're looking at a mark that really IS crossed swords, then the gun was reproved sometime after 1921. Photos of the gun, including the barrel flats and water table, would be helpful.
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 386
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For a mere 50 quid, WR will send you photocopies of the ledger. Submit details online at WR website.
doublegunhq.com
Fine English, American and German Double Shotguns and Rifles
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,577 Likes: 88
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
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Ian, I also have a 16ga 1882 WR with a SN that begins with a C. WR said that it was made in 1882. It is not a best grade gun.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 235 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2003
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Mike, Gordon and 400NP, my apologies for the error. I was quoting Brown in the original "London Gunmakers". Has he corrected this error in the latest edition?
Regards - Ian Forrester
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Ian:
There's a great deal more detail in Volume 2. Westley data is kinda sparse in Volume 1.
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
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