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Joined: Feb 2003
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How can Orlen who is supposedly MIA, be currently moderating and participating in online discussions on shotgunworld.com?....... From personal observations on this forum Mr. Hurst has been nothing short of a first class stand up gentleman since his arrival, and he deserves far better than the run around treatment he's getting from a man who continues posting about gun smithing topics on another web site.......... If Mr. Orlen was looking to cut his own throat, it appears he is succeeding. It is ridiculous for Orlen after this length of time and as a registered member of this site to pretend he is not aware and somehow unable to respond to this situation raised about his character and performance while he continues posting on shotgunworld.com...... It's obvious by not answering, Orlen has chosen to turn a blind eye spitting in the face of Ken Hurst and many others here with valid questions concerning their money spent long ago and Orlen work still not delivered. I seem to remember a well known guy who worked on Win-21's that started down this same road, and it did not end well. Best of luck Mike in your non responsive silence, cashing checks, not answering the phone or responding to emails, how's that working for ya so far?????????

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RMC, Ken Hurst is a very good friend and I am sharing situations with him regarding more than one gun job gone bad. My comment about Orlen's work is more tongue in cheek than pugilistic. I'm sure he does good work, but most of his customers are mislead by a modern attitude that a barrel butcher can make you a better shot. Orlen has found a niche in the gunsmithing world that should be lightly utilized by double gun owners, in my opinion. Double gun owners should realize that every duck gun can't also be a quail gun, especially when most of us already own a baggo quail guns. No, I am not criticizing Ken's use of Orlen's services.

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Unfortunately, these attack threads on Mike Orlen have come and gone on tthis bbs for years; and Mike NEVER responds publicly. He knows he cannot change anybody's mind about his terrible business practice of not comunicating well with customers. All he can do is keep turning out good work, and let that speak for him.

What he likely is doing is finishing up Mr. Ken's barrel set, and it will show up at his door very well done and with a refund for the inconvenience. Sometimes the mob effect around here is not...well, you know what I mean...Geo

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I have not ever had any work done by Mike, but what I am hearing is all to common among gunsmiths. I have had many experiences like this over the years. I am pleased to say by now I have found some great ones. While many of the gunsmith can be quite talented and fantastic, most seem to be very poor businessmen.

It is all too common for them to give you a time frame and not even be close to it. Not returning calls when the know why your calling. Ignoring you, because they screwed the pouch.

While most of use realize that things can get delayed, unexpected personal problems come up, etc. I would respect and understand that if a gunsmith contacted me ahead of time and explained the situation, I would be more understanding and more willing to swing with him. ( Not waiting till way after the time promised and then giving me all the excuses why it was not done. IE; ran out of gas, gold fish died, could not find car keys, dick got caught in his zipper, etc)

Not responding is just not acceptable which seems like what Mr. Hurst has here. From what Mr Hurst has said, he has given Mike many times to contact him both by phone and mail with no responce.


Best


John Boyd
Quality Arms

Last edited by arrieta2; 01/11/10 10:49 AM.

John Boyd
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Houston, TX
713-818-2971
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What you are saying Geo. is some peoples money is better than others to Mike, and we should just accept that right?
He evidently doesn't do fifo, more likely cash-o.
A person is a fool to stick up for that.
He might be the Jesus Christ of the choke boring world, but he won't get a dime of my money.
I hope Ken's problem is based on a barter deal gone bad (one side welching) and not a large pre-paid transaction.
All the chosen people can stick up for this all they want, but they are fooling themselves. When the next "I'll pay cash, put me in front of the line" guy jumps their project, they'll be right where Ken is. And have to like it.

Bad/illegal/practices are bad/illegal practices.


Out there doing it best I can.
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This has been one of the most perplexing threads I have ever followed on this board. I have no doubt the poor experiences suffered by some are genuine. But for reasons I certainly can't explain, mine have been the opposite. I've had about 3-4 jobs done my Mike Orlen--stock bending, honing chokes etc. Each time, even the first, he answered my emails almost immediately, completed the work within a week or so, and billed me via email with a scanned invoice. The latest was a month or so ago, same experience.

I have no relationship with him, have never met him, and have talked only briefly on the phone (he always answered). So I can't for the life of me figure I'm some sort of favored client. So I am chalking this whole thing up as one of life's great mysteries. But I felt I had to jump in as my experiences have been good ones--why I've been seemingly favored I have no idea.

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Those who preach patience have obviously not done business with the three gunsmiths who come to mind, from NY, NC, and FL. Should we recommend that the customers of these three guys continue to be patient?

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George, this is no attack on Mike Orlen.
This is Ken Hurst trying to get his property from Mike Orlen, who is completely out of integrity - not returning emails, not answering calls or returning calls... and this has been going on for months.

Attack?
Not so much.



Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
Unfortunately, these attack threads on Mike Orlen have come and gone on tthis bbs for years; and Mike NEVER responds publicly. He knows he cannot change anybody's mind about his terrible business practice of not comunicating well with customers. All he can do is keep turning out good work, and let that speak for him.

What he likely is doing is finishing up Mr. Ken's barrel set, and it will show up at his door very well done and with a refund for the inconvenience. Sometimes the mob effect around here is not...well, you know what I mean...Geo

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I have had gunsmith delay or fail to complete work for just about every reason you can think of. One went bankrupt and left town. Local cop helped me get my gun back. One died, he was way behind on his work and kept taking more in until he passed away. Honest man that he was, every gun had the check taped to the box. I think he kept taking work in because he thought he would get better. Bit of a problem getting the gun back because they had so many to return. He never seemed to have cashed one in advance. I do miss him. One ran off with another mans wife and left his entire life behind him. One sold my gun and pretended he never got it. Saw my gun at a gun show a few months later. That was a [censored] to get back. One fellow took so long to finish my job he thought I died. Three years almost and I had forgotten about the gun several times. One fellow had his father died and that caused him to take forever to get the job done. Funny thing is that his father died twice in three years. Must have been hard on his father.

Now to be fair I have been having gun worked on for over 35 years and used several dozen gunsmiths for a hundred plus jobs. About two thirds of them have no concept of a calendar or due date. All will give you a date and then you need to start from there. I think their wife takes 13 month to deliver by their calenders. Many have had no people skills and hate to be bothered with petty questions. A few were thieves and or con men, many were experts in their own mind and a few were hacks and BS artist. You live and learn. A skilled smith can do anything if he sets his mind to it.

The good ones are like painless Dentist. The bad ones are hacks who you regret ever sending a gun to and make a solemn promise never to use again. To move from the one column to the hack column is very easy and never does one move back in my book. Word of mouth in this case is death.

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hey eightbore
who the heck qualified you to judge anyone's character? Mega thousands of post may qualify you on matters of double guns, but to malign the character of us bottomfeeders that just state FACTS isn't necessarily a glowing indication of your superior character and hardly qualifies you to judge the clients of another individual. Internet heroes. Stick to the assasination of the truly worthy, and stick your snobbery where the sun don't shine. Sorry, but you asked for it. So, here is your defender of the great double gun dreamers and unwashed. Flame away. (ps never met Mike or Ken, so I can't moralize on their character).

Rick


"Sometimes too much to drink is not enough" Mark Twain
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