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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
Jani:
From what you've described, and I'll have to view the "J.P. Sauer" name a bit closer, but it sounds as if the example was made in Zella Saint Blasii for Sauer. If the "AL" isn't some type forge mark of an imported tube, I'd guess it to be for August Lang(e?) of Mäbendorf or it could also be for Adam Linß of Suhl. The 1st "L" to pop in my mind is one of the boys Langguth, although, I think the gunsmith Langguth went by the names Julius & Paul Langguth. In the mid 19th century there was a Johann August Wilhelm Langguth but I don't think he was a gunsmith. And on to the "W.D.", well it would all but have to be for W.(Wilhelm??) Decker of Zella Saint Blasii, who I'm sure was either a brother or cousin to the Brothers(Gebrüder) Decker, who made gun parts & I've seen similar initials and have attributed them to the boys Decker. Anything interesting the standing breech?
The "Crown" over "R" is interesting. Chambers extended to 70mm?
Pod: Glad to have you along post anytime.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 112 |
Hi Montenegrin..not sure that you hammer gun is Sauer made. The reason I state that is in your post you note that there is not a Dolls head or Greener cross bolt (general Sauer attributes) plus no other Sauer markings. No serial number is very odd unless it was produced in the 1855-1870 time period. Also, the barrels appear to be fluid steel which if the piece does date to 1855-1870 would be unheard of as Sauer shotguns produced in that time period would have been outfitted with Damascus barrels. The fences (to my eye anyway) appear to be much taller and shaped differently than Sauer fences for their early hammer guns. Do your barrels carry the Sauer man with staff trademark on the barrel flats? A bit more information (if available) might help determine whether or not your shotgun was Sauer made. Thanks, Jeff S.
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,763 Likes: 8 |
Raimey, the only markings on breech are British "Crown/GP" (struck twice).
Jeff, there is no Caveman.
It crossed my mind that the original German markings on barrel flats might have been lost during renovation in England, before the gun was subjected to London proof (in 1996 I think). What say you?
With kind regards,
Jani
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,266 Likes: 199 |
Maybe a gun rebarreled by Sauer. That would explain the fluid steel barrels on an older gun.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
I too guess that the original tubes were pattern welded. Any sign of it being sleeved? If you pull the locks see if there are any marks there specifically a "S&S" or something of the like. Also many German examples had the serial number written in pencil on the butt and buttplate; is the buttplate horn?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,763 Likes: 8
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,763 Likes: 8 |
I do not see any sign of sleeving; I checked this as soon as it started to appear that something is "wrong" with this Sauer. As for the locks, sorry, they are so pristine, as is the wood around them, I don't dare to touch them with a screwdriver...
With kind regards,
Jani
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
I don't know that there is anything "wrong" with it as it appears to be a Suhl/Zella Saint Blasii example. Any marks/single letters or anything on the lower rib? If Sauer performed a re-barrel, I'd expect to see a "Krupp" stamp of some sort unless cast or other's fluid steel was used. Let me compare the fences.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,763 Likes: 8
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,763 Likes: 8 |
Raimey,
The Sauer is in the safe now but beforehand I looked it over and reported all the markings, letters, etc. that I could see.
May I add that the workmanship is superb; compared to a standard Sauer hammer double I also have this one looks like "best" gun.
With kind regards,
Jani
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
Apparently Sauer made a few early models without a top extension lock-up. Note the "Eagle" on the under side of the left tube as well as the initials near the flat & lower rib juncture: http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9516324I've probably stated it once too often already, but the craftsmen in the Suhl/Zella Saint Blasii area were on par with any in the world. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
Sauer hammergun 45xxx:  I think he's a little ambitious on price, but it does have interesting fence for post 1912: http://www.gunsamerica.com/906092074/Gun...ble_Shotgun.htm  Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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