doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com fiber/brush wad in long chamber

To expand on my previous comments:

I would strongly recommend that this old gun's chokes be left alone. "They don't make 'em like that anymore!"

"More open patterns" for trap are a snare and a delusion for the reason that I have stated. "Shoot 'em and grind 'em!"

Any problems that I have experienced or heard about with 3" chambers have to do with either the use of card/fiber wad columns (debatable but possible) and/or the kind of "steep" forcing cones that were necessary when old guns were made. Wads are easy. Use one-piece pastic wads and be happy. Forcing cones are not always a problem, especially if light shot charges are used. However, if guns' bores are "modernized" for plastic-wadded loads by lengthening forcing cones then patterns can be improved because the 3" chamber effectivly becomes a part of the new forcing cone. Pattern density and "quality" can be improved and recoil levels can be made much more manageable. Such modifications might take the gun in question "out of proof", however.

I started shooting just as plastic one piece wads were starting to be the norm. I am the "numbah one cheap Charlie", so I have shot hundreds of factory and handloaded card wads. All the problems I remember reading about with "shot lumps" were black powder loads with very soft shot. Could lead oxidization cause shot to stick together in a lump? I suppose it's possible. I don't use card OP wads by themselves much. I use old Alcan PGS or Air-Wedge or BPI's obturators with a card over them (mostly to prevent powder migration). A lot of older guns were choked for card wads and are tight with plastic one piece wads. Card loads without shot cups will let an extra tight choke pattern to it's original boring. However, loading card and fillers is a big hassle and I don't load a lot of them for target practice.

You and I started reloading at about the same time. (Getting to old geezers, ain't we?!)

Those were "gee whiz" days, weren't they! Man, the loads that some of us put together in those days! It is a testimonial to the guns that were used that more "MEC mechanics" ("Acme", in those days)did not end up with parts missing. In fairness, however, some of then loading data that we had and used would scare the pants off any competent reloader, today.

You still use PGSs and Air-Wedges? Wow! You ARE a hoarder! Those old wads might now be worth more a collectors' items than they might be as reloading components.

I must say that I am a bit of an agnostic when it comes to old guns shooting "tighter" with plastic wad loads. One can certainly make a case for "denser" and/or more "center dense" in many cases. However, "tighter" also involves effective pattern diameter. While "old style" loads MIGHT throw wider effective patterns because of increaed shot deformation at least as often the deformed shot "goes cattywumpus".

Dingelfutz/Jagdhund~

I started reloading back in the mid 1960's for my ever changing collection of 19th century rabbit eared doubles with black powder and a Lee Loader. Fiber wads and paper hulls were the norm and chamber length... what do mean chamber length?

My shooters have evolved from Belgian clunkers to my current novelty of 1920's-30's "Hardware Store" guns, ie: Crescent, Davis, Stevens, etc...

Black powder goes in the .45/70 and muzzleloaders.

As for the Davis I have an old magazine ad that claims it "Kills Ducks at 80 Yards".
As a occasional trap shooter I have to be having a really good day (which I actually do on very rare occasions) I turn in a decent score.

Super long forcing cones and extended choke tubes! Hmmmmm...

CraigF,

Nowhere in posts these do I see mention of how your old gun patterns with any loads. I too shoot old hammer doubles with original forcing cones, tight bores and tight chokes. With lighter loads (24-28 grams shot) and modern one-peice plastic wads, I usually get nice even patterns with high-Sb shot. Yes, they are sort of tight but, 7/8 oz of USA #7 to #8 shot will give me as high trap scores from 16 yards as I ever get (low 20s). Going to 32 grams shot just opens patterns (not always nicely) and limits my shooting to one round of trap.

A few my old guns with really tight chokes gave really bad patterns with modern one-peice plastic wads, but, only 1-3.

From having patterned lots of loads with old card and fiber wads, loads with plastic sealer powder wad or paper cup wads, loads with modern one-peice plastic wads, I really have to say that nice patterns can be had from each --IF load is right for that barrel. What is easier with modern one-peice plastic wads is getting nice patterns easily, from wide range of loads. Mostly this is because of wide range of bore diameters in old guns, thanks, I think, to varying amounts of reaming to remove those ugly pitts.

Niklas

If your intent is to open patterns with brush wads, I wouldn't bother, at least in my experience. I have not noticed any significant degree of pattern change with brush wads as compared to shot cups. Maybe 5% at most. Polywad spredr's however, are the cat's meow, and I use them regularly in my m/xf Lefever on upland birds with great success (my gun shoots ic/f with them). BP's x spreaders aren't very effective either imo. Too patchy.