doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Winchester WS1 and WS2 Chokes

I have never shot a gun while hunting with WS1 and WS2 chokes until this weekend. My typical hunting is with a small gauge gun with light improved cylinder and light modified chokes. I shot my newly reacquired 6 pound Win 21 while quail hunting this weekend. I am like most other people in that I can swing a heavier gun better than a light gun, but I still prefer the light gun. That is the primary reason that I have never hunted with 21's because they are typically heavier than I prefer and they are not that easy to comeby in a light 28 gauge.

I have a friend that because of his profession and private collection he could shoot any American double, but he doesn't. He always shoots a 20 gauge 21 with WS1 and WS2 choking whether we are hunting quail, shooting wild pheasants or sharptail grouse. He has always told me that he thought the Winchester WS1 and WS2 chokes were the best for upland hunting.

From my experince this weekend, I may agree with him. Of course, I will shoot it a few more times before making that final decision.

My question is whether are not you upland hunters think these WS chokes are that great.

Riprap

They're not magic... just good 20 and 30 yard chokes. They measure about like skeet and light modified, and I could never figure out what 'WS2' had to do with the game of skeet. I use spreaders in my WS2 choke when shooting skeet.

A Beretta mobilchoke or optima marked 'skeet' has a similar interior profile to a WS1, and performs the same.

For a field gun, I prefer IC/MOD. WS1 is old technology and is actually reverse (bell shaped) choke that is reputed to throw pretty spotty patterns beyond 20 yds. Serious SxS clay shooters order their CSMC 21's with Brileys. If I need more "scatter" for early season grouse in heavy cover, I use a spreader load.

WS1 is old technology and is actually reverse (bell shaped) choke that is reputed to throw pretty spotty patterns beyond 20 yds.

As does any 'skeet' choke. Optimum at 21 yads.

I didn't realize what a poor choice I had chosen for my upland guns (SK/LM) until I followed a few threads on various boards. Now I'm almost afraid to go out with these chokes. NOT!! They aren't magic but for some of us they fit the bill for the game we seek. An old saying that I rely on is "IF it ain't broke don't fix it.
Goog shooting,
Ron

I had a 20 ga 21 tournament skeet with ws1 and ws2,checkered butt and I always wondered if the WS1 bell shape was original. I sold it to a fellow, and he got queasy worrying about it, so I refunded him his check, and another fellow snatched it up the next day. I wish I had kept it. haha...

Hey, Riprap!! How the heck are you? I hadn't seen you on here in a while. I just looked through some of your back posts and noticed (what the heck?) that you're messin' with those lousy 21s?!! Have you been to many Louisville shows lately? I went to one last fall and got rid of a few guns..... The WS chokes- I have had several guns with them but I have never used them. But that's not saying a whole lot. I have used just about every other choke over the years from full to cylinder. I usually use a 12 gauge Model 21 I/C and C for birds though. Most of your
bird shots are probably going to be about 20-30 yards so the WS chokes should work great. I used a Model 37 Ithaca for years with a full choke which just gives you a little longer to shoot. Then again, someone like Steve Smith or Jack O'Conner will say that the cylinder works best. So, to each his own, I guess. Sorry I missed your question on the weight of the 21s. I don't have any scales. But maybe I should get some. Hope to see you soon.

Riprap,

One of my favorites in the field is a 20 ga M21 WS1/WS2. Most 20 ga WS1s mic about .003, maybe .004. WS2s I've measured are .010.

It's reasonable to wonder about the purpose of WS2, but consider: there were no shotcups when WS2 came into being, and skeet was a low-gun game (this means targets may well be hit after the stake).

I think WS1/WS2 is one of the great choke combinations, like IC/M. It is hard to beat for a grouse/WC gun.

Interestingly, in 12 ga guns WS1 typically runs about .008 or .009. WS2 runs just shy of .015. So, using shotcup loads one ends up with an IC/LM combination. The notion that 12 ga WS1 gets "patchy" beyond 20 yards is premised on the original intention of the choke and on available loads at the time. Pattern a few modern trap loads and you'll see why that idea no longer holds water.

Sam

Isn't the '1st Commandament' of scatter shooter: 'The best degree of choke for filling the game bag is always the least degree consistent with the requirements of the class of sport concerned'? Ref GT Garwood.
In Europe it's covered in shooting 101.

Sam H. explains the WS1 choke correctly. There is slight constriction before the "bell" so, with many loads, the WS1 may behave like a bit more than cylinder on a pattern board. I have noticed slight differences in the amount of "constriction before the bell", but Schwing's book and the 21 website show the specifications that Winchester claimed were standard.