doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Pre Hunter Arms L C Smith 8 gauge

Is anyone familiar with 8 guage L C Smith guns made in Syracuse New York?

Did the 8 gauge share a common frame size with the heavy 10 gauge (my 10 gauge Quality 2 weighs in at almost 10 1/2 lbs)?

Syracuse guns on heavy frames are known to have been rechambered to eight gauge. Be sure to measure the bores. If the bore is not nominal eight gauge dimension to the end, it probably started life as a ten gauge. I believe Brophy made the statement that there are no Syracuse eight gauges. I don't know how he reached that conclusion.

Interesting. The only Smith 8 gauge I have seen was a number of years ago at Scheels in Lincoln Nebraska. Unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to examine it closely.

By the way what was involved in converting 10 gauge guns to 8 gauge? I would think a simple rechambering would not be enough although the barrels seem thick enough to have plenty of metal to accommodate the 8 gauge chambers.

I'm sure there is no standard procedure for converting a ten to an eight, but one feature in common would be a smaller than nominal eight gauge bore in the front half.

Out of a 160+ Syracuse hammerless serial numbers I have not seen one that is an 8 ga. In an old catalog dated 1884 there is no mention of any 8 ga made in hammer guns. Also in an 1888 catalog, again no mention of an 8 ga., only 10 ga and 12 ga.
The thing that is amazing for back then, is that they would make a gun for you at No Extra Charge for Heavy or Extra Heavy Gun over a Medium Weight Gun.
What this means is the frame size:
10 ga. 8 1/2-9 3/4 lbs-30" barrels
10 ga. 9 1/2-11 lbs. - 32" barrels
12 ga. 7 1/2-9 1/4 lbs.- 30" barrels
12 ga. 9-9 1/2 lbs.- 32" barrels

I have recorded a 10 ga hammerless serial # 19494 c. 1886-87 with a distance across the breech balls of 2 11/16" and a hammer gun across the breech balls at 2.725 center to center firing pins is 1.310 32" barrels that weighs 10 lbs. 8 ozs.
A few of these guns could be bored and chambered for 8 ga, and still have enough wall thicknss. The 8 ga loads of then were not much different than the 10 ga loads.

What are the "nominal" specifications of an 8 gauge? SAAMI does not publish a drawing for 8 gauge.

My 10 gauge Serial Number 18843 has 32 inch barrels and weighs 10 lbs 5.8 ounces.

Width of he breach balls is 2.752 inches

Firing pin spacing is 1.353 inches center to center.

Chamber wall thickness is .349 .279 inches measured in front of the extractor cuts.

Barrel thickness measured at the muzzle is .072 (right) and .0765 (left).

I don't have a bore gauge so I don't have an accurate measurement of bore diameter and choke constriction.

It would seem that yours could be turned into a 8 ga. and still have plenty of "meat" left.
The most important measurement is the distance from the rim to the extended rib. The extended rib was the same dimension on all guns, and the distance from the rim to that rib is crucial as seen in the picture. Your gun, with those measurements, I would think falls into it as being do-able.


I don't have the specs either for an 8 ga, but I'm sure someone out there does and will post them.

The late Russ Ruppel had some of your information down as to serial number, barrel length, Quality 2, he also had uncheckered? next to it.

I picked up on the serial numbers after he passed. I believe he had 40+ in hammerless and around 20 in hammer gun.

FYI,
10Ga Hammerless Sr.# 18239 weighs in at 11 lbs 2 oz.
32" Barrels that weigh 6.5 lbs
2.777" across the breach balls
1.337" between the centers of the firing pins.

Thanks Gordon, I have yours as a Quality 2, right? Had the weight as 10 lbs. 15 ozs., close.

Several years ago Guyette and Schmidt offered at auction in MD a Syracuse eight. I gave it a good look and thought it was a rebored gun but did not get a good measurement of the muzzle. All we have to do to determine whether a "heavy" Syracuse ten can be made into a hard to recognize fake eight is to measure the muzzles to determine whether there is enough metal to bore it out to nominal eight gauge dimension. We already know that the breech and the first part of the bore can be enlarged to eight gauge.