doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com L C Smith 3 position safety problem

I sent a 00 grade double trigger extractor 12 gauge to be restored and when shot for the first time today I noticed that the safety would not return to S when in the rear position. When pushed forward it would return to the S position. The only way to get the safety to the S from the rear position was to fire the triggers. What could be preventing the safety from moving forward from the rear position when not fired? If simple to fix I can save the trouble of sending it back to the gunsmith. Thanks

That's exactly the way it's supposed to function.

No, I don't think that's how it is supposed to work. If placed in the rear position, the safety should be able to be moved to the middle or safe position without snapping the triggers. If the safety is placed in the forward position it operates as an an auto safety and should return to the middle position on opening. When in the rear position it operates as a non-automatic safety. Something is messed up on Sowega's gun...Geo

A few things could be wrong. If the gunsmigh is unfamiliar with L.C. Smith's, did he do any work on the safety itself, like replace the safety spring? If so he might have replaced the safety spring with the wrong one that had one less dedent in it (2 position)

If you try to fix it yourself and have done this before, ok, if not I wouldn't do it as it is not easy to put back.
The stock will have to come off to see what is wrong. With the 3 position safety, it is best to put the safety in the "S" positon and then try to align the safety link to the safety. You need a narrow light to see if it is guided in, and then it is best to try it before going any farther. To do so, the top lever will have to be tripped or the safety slide taken out and don't forget to put it back or you will be taking the stock off again.
The top lever will be hard to move because it is out of the trigger housing and turning the top lever now, all the pressure of the top lever spring is on the rotary bolt housing.

The way it is supposed to function is, pusing safety forward, both barrels can be fired, open gun, safety will return to "S". Moving safety rearward, both barrels can be fired, gun opened, safety remains in the rear position until it is manually moved forward to "S" position.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Try this, at least in regards to diagnosing the problem. With the gun obviously unloaded, put the safety in the rearward position - push the triggers forward to the extent they will go and hold them there - now see if the safety will return to the safe position. If it doesn't I have no clue, if it does I at least know what the problem most likely is. but you will still have to have a gunsmith to fix it.

Hackcw

Thanks for the help. I will send the gun back to the gunsmith.

HackCW I will have to get the gun from my friend and see if the safety will go on from the rear position with the triggers pushed forward. Thanks

HackCW I got the gun back and pushed the triggers forward while the safety was in the rear position. The safety moved forward with ease. Please let me know what the problem is so I can tell my gunsmith before shipping it to him.

Thanks

Asa: I encountered the same problem about a month ago when I was restocking an Elsie with a three position safety. If you've seen an LC Smith action assembled without the wood, it's easy to understand how the safety works. It's basically an
H-bar that connects the safety to the lifters on the trigger. When the safety is engaged the bottom of the H-bar sits flush across the top of the lifters preventing upward movement of the lifter when you attempt to pull the trigger. Move the safety forward, the bottom portion of H-bar swings back away from the lifter allowing the lifter to engage the sear when the trigger is pulled. Pull the safety back for manual safety & the bottom of the H-bar swings forward, aqain allowing the lifter to engage the sear.

Now we come to the problem (at least this was my problem). When you push the safety forward to return the gun to safe, the process must reverse, and the bottom of the H-bar must slide rearward to once again come flush over the lifter. In my case the lifter was too high (by just a hair) to allow the H-bar to return to it's normal position. This is why, that when you pushed the triggers forward the lifter was lowered and the H-bar was allowed to move as intended.

The solution was to file down the lifter just a touch (mine was left trigger only) to allow the H-bar to move back & forth normally. I'm a stock maker, and I work on metal parts only when a gun is held to my head; so I took it to Bill Schwarz in Ellijay and it was a simple matter for him to fix.

In theory, I can see that the problem might be caused by the screw that connects the back of the top tang to the back of the trigger plate being too tight (screwed in too far) which could reduce the distance between the lifter & the H-bar. Look behind the safety & see if the end of that screw is flush with the metal or if it is a little proud. If it's a little proud, try loosening it until it's flush. This theory is defeated if the screw has been replaced with a screw that's a touch short, if which case "being flush might be too tight". Again, just a guess, no experience with this idea.

Hope this helps. If you need Bill Schwarz's number let me know.

Gary Hackney

Thanks.

Bill Schwarz is a great gunsmith. I have used Bill for gunwork since 1989. He can make most any part.

Asa:

What I know about this I learned from Bill. I am lucky that he is a friend, and even luckier that he lives 45 minutes away.

Thanks,

Gary