doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Reloading + shot = can of worms opened

I can buy a flat of Gun Club trap loads for ~ $4 a box ( +-).
Right now a 25lb sack of MAGNUM #8's is nearing $30 at some retailers, but I could have bought from a guy at the trap club, last night for $26.
See where this is going yet?
I'm shooting Clays powder, Spolar Gold Windjammers, in Remington STS hulls, with 1 1/8oz magnum shot.
Getting the picture?
How much better are my reloads at breaking targets than the Gun Club shells? What shot is Remington or Winchester using, and does it make a difference if it's lead, chilled lead, or Magnum shot when it comes to breaking birds at the 23yd line?
In the final analysis, am I wasting my time, and spending unnecessarily to load my own shells, thinking quality components make any difference whatsoever, when it comes to breaking clay targets?
Lastly, at the price of componants, these days, am I actually saving anything by handloading vs buying cheapie target loads? Never mind the enjoyment/satisfaction I get from loading/shooting my own. Also, I guess it's fair to include a labor cost into the equation; but ordering and picking up new shells takes time as well, so that may be a wash.
Thanks for your thoughts.

If you use good, round, hard shot, good wads you probably should compare your shells and cost to new AA or STS shells. I believe they contain better components than the promotional shells. You can also save the hulls(at least the STS) and sell them for 4 or 5 cents to a reloading friend. However, the main reason I reload is to have the low pressure, light shot and lower velocity loads to use in my older guns. I don't think you can get this in the $3 per box stuff. I also have lots of good, original AA shells and lots of time. I'm satisfied I save money as well.
JL
An easy-to-use cost calculator: http://www.trapshooters.com/reloadcalc.htm

What JL sez!!

I purchased Kemen from their site for less than $4 freight included. They are UAE (Spanish) target shells. They are made by the same people who sell Rio, their popular priced stuff. The problem with RIO is they are using two many people to distribute and each is takeing a profit. One or two more distributors in the chain and they will be priced like STS or AA.
bill

Just wait 6 months, by then shotshell prices will likely have surpassed component prices and reloading will be a bargain (relatively speaking) again. Not to hijack this thread, but is this a case of American manufacturing not being able to compete, or is it strictly escalating commodities prices? Little of both maybe?

Lots of places in the world starting to manufacturer. They have an initial advantage of cheaper labor, new facilities, no legacy costs, no "not invented here" issues, and starting at the currently most efficient point of production. Brand value, transportation, low volume feedstock costs, and startup distribution costs are the down side. The world has become vastly better at manufacturing within the last generation; many of the improvements helping make maunfacturing in low skill areas feasible.

China is reportedly starting to lose some manufacturing to lower (yet) labor cost countries; boy howdy, that didn't take long!!

I'd also be curious as to the effects of barriers set up by US regulatory authorites such as OSHA, etc. etc. No wonder no one opens factories here anymore.

I reload because there is no other way to get the many different loads that I like to use. No factory on earth can match the variety that a reloader can produce. At least not and stay profitable.

Like many I buy componets when I see them at a desirable price. I do not buy just before use, and have not needed to buy some items that have recently become very pricey. I still have over 80 bags of shot, that was less than $11.00 a bag when bought. Primers and wads on hand were about a third less than replacement cost is now. Shot goes up and down over time. 25 years ago lead was in the low $20.00 range and it returned to the $10-12.00. Primers, wads and powder do not go as up and down as lead, their price is less volitle than lead and have slowly increased over time.

Point is that over the long term reloading has always saved me money over factory shells. I have heard all the arguments against reloading and while they may all be true they are bogous. Selling once fired hulls for .05 each is not that easy to do when most clubs have free ones for the picking up so most local markets do not exist. Ebay is a pain unless you want to become a full time dealer, which I do not. Cheap shells are rarely what I want to, or should, shoot in my vintage guns. The labor of reloading is free time that would have been wasted doing other non income generating things. It is not like watching two more hours TV a week will increase you checking account.

In the end, try to find a light 12 or 16 shell for less than you can reload one. Not going to happen. You pay for the convience of factory by less choices and heavier loads. Almost all factory loads must work Automatics and are way to high pressure for my needs. The few light loads ar hard to located locally or tend to be of the more pricey factroy shells. Which bring reloading back as a very vialbe option.

I essentially load only low pressure loads for my 12g vintage guns and .410. That's it. I don't have a need for a huge variety of loads like Jon. But I do substitute shot size in my basic low pressure recipe, to allow for different use: 7 1/2 for clay targts/quail/dove, 6 or 5 for chukar and phez.

I also shoot a heck of a lot of promo loads in my modern guns. I don't load for them. If I don't want the 12g promo recoil, I shoot 20g promo loads in my 20g guns. Is there a quality difference between what I'm capable of loading and promos, of course. Does it matter to me in my casual clay shooting or quail/dove hunting? Not a bit. I reload and shoot promos. Neither is to save or make money. If that were the goal, I'd stop doing the activity altogether. Heck think of the cost of all the equipment that needs to amortized to load. Basically I shoot promos because I'm lazy. I shoot my reloads in my vintage guns because it's more convenient than chasing down special low pressure loads every time I want them. My press is a turret type and can crank out a flat in an hour or so if I'm being slow and methodical. That's a lot of hunting loads.

If I were to need larger volumes of 2 1/2" quality lower pressure shells for my short chambered guns reloading would be important. And I do reload for hunting shells to get exactly what I like performance wise. RST and similar shells are about $7 to $8 per box, a price that even at current retail for components it is not hard to beat. Otherwise I find that reloading of 12 and 20 gauge shells for target purposes isn't a benefit compared to prices for Federal Estates and other similar loads. I suppose a serioius competitor might want the best of Rem STS, AA or Fed Gold in which case I agree with Jim Legg.