doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Adding Choke via Sleeving ???

This is not a comment for the original poster who asked a very good question, but "Why do people who own twenty shotguns insist that every one do everything?". And, "Why do some people insist on giving gunsmiths all their gun money?".

Guys that shoot quickly over pointing dogs probably don't need any choke and could probably use spreader loads too. Hell, they don't even need a 12 or 16 ga over a pointing dog.

Guys with flushing dogs have a little more distance to deal with quite often. But a half decent owner won't be surprized by a flush very often over his flushing dog. So he'll be ready to shoot.

Anyone that has hunted fields in the line abreast and blocker methods of the midwest will know that moderate amounts of choke are an advantage most of the time. A blocker with a full choked 12ga is at a distinct advantage over a guy with a cylinder bore gun.

Depends on what you're shooting over pointing dogs. I've shot a bunch of wild pheasants, having lived most of my life in Iowa and having had a fair amount of time available to hunt them--and just getting them pointed is only half the battle. The other half is having them sit until you're within range. I prefer a double with not much choke in the first barrel for that kind of hunting, but at least light mod in the tight barrel. I used to have a pair of Brit 12's, the #1 gun choked that way, and #2 choked skeet/IM for later season birds or those days when they're a bit wilder. The vast majority of my first shots come inside of 30 yards, and I think it makes sense to have your gun choked (at least in one barrel) to deal with the majority of your shots. But it's also nice to have something tighter for the longer chances.

Re chokes for blockers, I think it depends on how far apart they're positioned. Midwest pheasant country is mostly flat, which means the birds in general aren't going to be extremely high, although shots might be long laterally if the blockers are spaced widely. A good friend has a McKay Brown OU choked .010 in both barrels, for driven birds. That's not specifically for the shoots with the very tall birds, and it's a bit tighter than Dig's chokes. But it takes considerably less to kill pheasants shot from the front or as crossers--the shots that blockers get on field drives in the States, or that guns get on driven shoots abroad. And due to terrain and vegetation (trees), British driven birds will often come over the guns a good bit "taller" than they will over the blockers on an American-style field drive. 2 1/2" 12's, shooting no more than 1 1/8 oz (and often 1 1/16 oz), work quite well on driven shoots that don't specialize in "archangels". For that matter, I use mostly 1 1/16 oz Brit 6's in my first barrel for wild, walked up roosters over pointing dogs. There seems to be a mania for heavier and faster pheasant loads these days, but Hill, Brister, and McIntosh all pretty much agreed on 1 1/4 oz 6's at around 1220 fps as being maybe the best all-around pheasant load. Given that roosters have not taken to wearing Kevlar, nor are they any faster than they used to be, I think most folks would do just as well with lighter and/or slower loads than what American ammo companies are now touting as their best pheasant loads.

Larry
With the limits placed on the number of hunters allowed in one field, blockers often see long crossers in our group hunts in SD.

Since Ive been using mostly 20g and 410 in the past few yrs, most of pheasant shooting is with 1 oz /20g and 11/16 or 3/4 oz with a 410. With 20g and larger, an open for choke and a tight one is a favorite of mine too. Same with a 410 on the quail. But for pheasant with a 410 I prefer both a choked tight.

Chuck--You must be in some pretty big groups. Thought the number 20 stuck in my head as the legal maximum for a pheasant hunting platoon. Checked the SD game laws and found that for once I didn't misremember.

FWIW my money would be on thin-walled choke tubes like Briley makes. You would have much more flexibility and the modification most likely will leave the gun no less "original" than sleeving. Briley thin walls tend to pattern nicely, too.

Since I have a few shotguns, I can pick and choose for different situations. If I buy a cylinder bored gun, it stays that way. Since about 98% of my guns have choke in the right barrel, I would not be inclined to add choke in a cylinder bored right barrel.

Larry,
Yes, our groups can get big. Still, our blockers can be spaced apart pretty far, since mostly the older guys block and there's a limited number of them.

You take me back to glorious "brass monkey" late-season pheasant hunting in Nebraska. As an ex-pat in "The People's Republic of New York State", I sure do miss those!

One thing that I learned in those days is that shot penetration on pheasants has a lot more to do with pellet energy than it does with choke. In cold weather, even #6 shot can offer marginal penetration on going-away shots due, I suspect to the effect of the cold on powders and primers and, possibly, to the ability of plastic wads to "seal". I found, originally in muzzleloading guns, that large shot traveling at low velocities (1000 f.p.s, or even less) can penetrate pheasant dorsal areas a lot more effectively than smaller shot traveling faster (nominally 1200 f.p.s. to 1330 f.p.s.). #5 shot seems to be the minimum for such loads. (According to Zutz, such loads, loaded with lead #4's, can kill geese reliably at 60 yards if the gun is properly choked.)

If it were me (And, boy do I wish that it "were"!) I would consider using Holy Black powder (Start with Ffg granulation.) to put together approximately 2 3/4 x 1 1/4 loads (for 2 1/2-inch loads) to roughly 3 x 1 1/2 loads (for 2 3/4-inch loads) using either lead #5 or #4 shot, if your hunting areas allow the use of the old-fashioned "pizened pellets". Powder and shot charges and wadding should be adjusted to achieve the best patterns. I would not be too surprised if even smaller powder charges might yield the best-quality patterns.

I would use these loads at least in your cylinder barrel but I suspect that, with time, these shells will end up in both "tubes". I think that you might be pleasantly surprised at how well such loads pattern and how well they hold up in cold weather. Great grandpaw might have had it right: Little powder, much lead; shoots far, kills dead.

Has it ever been scientifically established that one can overpet a Springer (or, does one's arm fall off first)? I miss these merry little companions, too.

No, it is not visible from the muzzle, but you can see a tiny
line looking from the breech.