doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT - What do you feed your hunting dog?.....

Nothing but Eukanaba Performance year ‘round. I am a bit of a fanatic - hunting and guiding quite a lot in many places, both near and far. My dogs run HARD and are extremely fit. No problems of any kind. Weight control is no problem – I just control the serving amount. Not much bulk going in or out. I don't know what more one could wish for.

Question for you all.

My dog, which is a fantastic pointing Lab (for which I claim NO credit in terms of training) lamed up in the Fall of '05. In early '06 I had ACL surgery done by a specialist (one of the best in the US).

Obviously there was a long recuperation, with restricted activity. I was advised by the Vet to have her swim a lot, but couldn't do so.

Now, she is overweight and can only hunt for short periods of time before she shows trouble with the leg which had the surgery.

Any ideas about what to do?

Claybird,

The possibilities are many:

1. Injury did not heal properly.
2. Surgery did not go as well as originally thought.
3. Not in shape.
4. Lack of drive/desire in the dog.
5. Combination of the above.

How old is she? You mentioned the vet recommending swim therapy, but stated you could not do so. Was this because the dog just couldn't do it, or lack of water or too cold?

If she is still pretty young, I would get her in shape, and take some trips afield to see how she holds up. If the leg is still giving her trouble and you can honestly say she is in shape, I may get jumped on for this, you may want to consider early retirement for her. Just enjoy her company as a pet, and start the search for another gun dog. Just like ball players, this is a serious injury. Some make it back, some don't. JMHO. Hope it all works out.

Kind regards,

Greg,
Beautiful dogs. Excuse my ignorance, but what breed are these (I told everyone I didn't know anything about dogs) and why did you chose that breed for the hunting/guiding you do?

Claybird,
I probably do about 50 of these surgeries on dogs each year. As many people know, ruptured ACLs are a very common injury in human athletes, especially football players. Even with the best surgeons and unlimited technology available to MDs it can still be a career-ending injury for them. On the other hand, they are usually able to at least regain normal usage, even if they are no longer competitive. A hunting dog falls somewhere in between "normal usage" and playing football. Your results aren't unusual, even when done by the best in the field. We can never make it as strong as it was originally. You asked what you can do? GET the weight under control! Whatever it takes. Stress on the joint is multiplied exponentially by obesity. Other than that, there are a few options, including glucosamine/chondroitin products like Cosequin, Omega 6 fatty acid-containing diets like Purina's prescription line (CNM) JM diet (maybe it's JD? can't recall right now), Adequan injections (a precursor to the normal joint fluid which provides lubrication), and finally anti-inflammatory meds (NSAIDS like Rimadyl, Deramaxx, etc.) to treat the pain and reduce inflammation. There are some clinics who offer physical therapy in heated underwater treadmills. We don't, but I have heard of good results. I would make sure if I went this route that the vet is certified in this type of therapy. It's a lot more complicated than just putting them in for a half hour a day. I believe that you can find a workable solution, but it may take some time (and money unfortunately). She may not ever be able to hunt as long and hard as she once did, but hopefully she can hunt enough to be useful. Come to think of it, I can't hunt as long and hard as I once did, either. I would stop her for the day when the lameness begins to show. Lameness means pain, which means inflammation. Chronic inflammation means chronic arthritis, which is irreversible.

As to the original subject of this thread (not Claybird's dog), my advise would be to feed a good quality food from one of the major manufacturers (Hill's, Purina, Iams). There are lots of niche manufacturers out there touting their high-quality ingredients and all-natural whatever. But the fact is, they are small-time compared to the big guys, and don't have the money to do the extensive research done by the big manufacturers. I have seen the research facilities and exhaustive studies done by the majors, and it cannot be approached by the niche makers. Neither can they match the quality control. Just recently, there was a large recall of the Diamond brand food due to contamination with aflatoxin - a potentially fatal toxin produced by fungal contamination of the grains used. There were quite a few sick dogs and some deaths associated with this recall. So-called "high-protein" foods are appropriate for dogs that are hunting/training hard every day, but probably not for the weekend warrior or in the off-season. If the dog isn't working extra hard, it can't use the extra protein, therefore it becomes a waste product in the blood which can be hard on the kidneys especially as the dog gets older.

Recently Purina did a study of about 15 years where they took littermates from many, many different litters and put one littermate in each of two groups. One group was fed only enough to keep the body condition just below what is considered normal (in other words, a little thinner than what we consider normal). The other group was fed more, so that they were just slightly overweight compared to the accepted norm. The underweight, a-little-too-thin dogs lived about 2 years longer, on average.

Any of you feed your dogs with natural food such as fresh beef, oats flakes, vegetables...?
I try do not feed dogs with premium class food such as Purina or The First Choice all the time. Especially when dog hunts there is nothing better, than piece of good beef!

Second to Geno. Of course, it's faster to grab a handful of dry food out of a sack, but... the Borzoi dogs in the "good old days" ate nothing but oatmeal and boiled beef, with some vegetables and milk - and they were fast enough to catch a hare and strong enough to stop a wolf. Tell me these dogs weren't eating right!

I am suprised that few here seem to think that days of hard hunting require a little extra. My vet says that something more than dry dog food should be given when the dog is working hard. At hunting camp- my GSP gets canned Pedigree to go with the dry. That is - if there isnt enough meat left from our meal. He is 12 now - still hunts like a maniac.

We feed home food. Generally 50% beef chuck or round steak, 25% vegetables fresh or frozen, 25% rice or pasta including anything that's left over. The food is cooked, I don't do BARF. I also give them a multi-V and Glucosamin & Chondroitin after 2 years. They're very healthy, energetic and lay very small turds. I feed store-bought food for convenience when traveling or when I take them to the office.

As Homer says, during hard hunting days, I was told by my vet to increase feed by half again more. Since I'm mostly a weekend hunter, this is usually only a day or two. However, the vet doesn't seem to have dealt with hunting dogs (no surprise in LA) and recommended feeding in the morning before a hunt and mid day during a hunt as well as evening. I did this once. After the mid day meal the dog had the runs so bad she had spasms and was down to expelling clear water.

Around the house, I feed morning and evening, splitting her normal ration in half per the vet. The dog does well on this and seems more regular. For planned hunt days, I feed a little extra the night before, feed light in the morning several hours before hunting, and feed her up heavy in the evening. The dog seems to deal with this well.

I'd like your opinions on the above as I have little experience.