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I have a new B grade Fox, straight grip 32", made about 1912
The bbls weigh 4 lbs 2 oz and it has 2 7/8" chambers that appear to be original also has the oval Fox proof stamps on the flats, bores are .729 and the chokes are a tight .039" that start about 6" from the muzzle equal on both sides.

My question is.... are these #1 bbls and would this be a factory 3" gun?


CJ

Claudio, yes they are 1-weight barrels. 2-7/8 chambers may or may not be original. Check your PM's.

Frank Silvers

Hi CJ. I'm no expert but I do have a Fox A grade, 1913 gun, w/original 3" chambers that measure 2 7/8". Bores of my gun are .724, chokes are factory IM/F and are 4"+ in length. 32" barrels are stamped #1 and weigh 66 oz.

So....without a letter or copy of the factory build card to say otherwise I'd consider your B to be a legit 3" gun with #1 barrels. Do your barrels have the reinforced wedge like mine?

Claudio,
The only 3" Fox HE I've had in the shop measured shorter with three different chamber gauges. Info in a recent SSM story.
Steve

It was fairly common practice with several American firearms makers to bore their chambers just slightly short back during the paper hull era. There was a good 2-part article in the American Rifleman on the subject, back in the 30's. The theory--and testing seemed to support it--was that if the paper case mouth opened slightly into the forcing cone, it would give the shot charge some protection on first contact with the bores.

Steve.... HE Grade Foxes (Super Foxes) with FACTORY 3-inch chambers will measure "short" at about 2-11/16 to 2-3/4". A special, tight chamber reamer was used to center the shell = a perfect fit and a consistent transition of the shot charge into the forcing cone and bore.

Earlier GRADED 12 gauge Foxes (let's say < serial number 27800 which was the first documented Super Fox) were available on special order with factory chambers for early 3-inch shells. Very few do have long chambers done at the factory. Those that do will measure a full 2-7/8" with a regular chamber gauge. I have never seen one that has a chamber length stamp. A letter from John Callahan, or a card check done on member request by the A H Fox Collectors Association, is the only way to verify factory originality. I do own such a gun, an early CE made in 1912, that has heavy 1-weight tubes.

In sum, a Super Fox/HE Grade 12 gauge 3-inch chamber made for progressive burning powder loads like the then new Super-X shells, will measure about 2-11/16 to 2-3/4" with a regular chamber gauge. And an earlier 3-inch chamber intended for pre-progressive (bulk or dense powder) loads in 3" long hulls, will measure about 2-7/8".

I hope this is helpful. Silvers

I seem to recall Researcher mentioning the 3" shell coming along much later. Anyone recall when it was first offered?

Per Researcher:

In 1922, Western Cartridge Co. intoduced the 'Super-X' 12 gauge 3 inch shell with 1 3/8 ounces of shot, and the 2 3/4 inch 1 1/4 ounce 3 3/4 dram equiv. load. Peters Cartridge Company's 'High Velocity' and Remington's Kleanbore 'Nitro Express Extra Long Range' loads soon followed. In 1935, Winchester/Western brought out the 1 5/8 ounce 12 gauge 3 inch magnum.

Ah Claudio, If you would like to send the Fox south of the border to me, I would be most happy to check it out for you! I would think that a B grade in that configuration and condition is quite rare.

Claudio, what are your plans for the Vintagers? Our little local group of collectors will have a booth this year. Bill Murphy