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#244761 09/20/11 10:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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We just took one in at the shop on trade. Looks very Westly Richard. Marked anson and deeley on the water table. 60% condition. We have no idea what price to put on this. Can you guys lend a hand? We were thinking $1500 area. But I told them I would check with the gang here first.

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Does it look like this?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=248692289

Does it have proof marks?

Pete

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Westley Richards did make some guns for this company. When and how many I can't recall.

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From Vorisek Vol II

Pittsburgh Fire Arms. 68 5th Ave, Pittsburgh, PA.1860-1885.
1882-1885 they had a hammerless boxlock that was marked Pittsburgh Fire Arms. It also was marked Anson & Deeeley on top. It is possible this was through license with Harrington
& Richardson. This is only gun that had Pittsburgh Fire Arms on it.

Sellers gives the company the same date of operation.

There was a discussion with pictures a few years ago:
http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=87308&page=4

Field & Stream


Pete

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That first one on Gunbroker is a bit dodgy as the seller says it has 2 3/4" chambers; which it might well have, but it is only re-proofed at 2 1/2"! If someone has lengthened them then it might be unsafe and would be illegal to sell or even offer for sale here in Britain. Lagopus.....

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yes it looks like that one on gunbroker. Better condition, no lipstick. Small very old repair on the rh side of the cheek of the stock at the receiver. Bone stock. Barrels are a bit sketchy, some craters. The gun is identical to the GB one. I have pics but need someone to post them for me.

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It is the same as the gun discussed here, only a 12 bore
http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=87308&page=4

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Damn, I do recall an article from at least 20 years ago that convincingly cemented Westley Richards significant involvement with a number of these guns marketed here in the US under the auspices of Pittsburgh Arms. Action and barrels, if memory serves. I'll dig back into the archives to try to find it, but that's a union job in itself these days.

There's just so much paper a packrat like me can pack away over the years, and its all categorized in accordance with my own arcane filing system, i.e. pandemonium.

I will try.

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Good information was thin when I attempted to do any research on Pittsburgh Firearms Company. There is a common thread however, and I hope I am getting on to something.

First things first. The Pittsburgh Firearms Company was a dealer located at 68 5th Avenue, Pittsburgh PA from 1860 to 1882. It was owned by J. Palmer O'Neill.

J. Palmer O'Neil was the president of PFC. They sold a long list (See one of the attachemnts) of imported guns, some of which were marked with their name. Among others, they imported Westley Richards shotguns.

There also was a J. Palmer, O'Neil & Co of Pittsburgh, Pa in operation from 1882 to 1885, which imported Samuel Buckley guns, of which, I've read, were made by Westley Richards and/or I' Hollis & Sons. I have what I surmise is a Westley Richards made Samuel Buckley. (See picture)

"Shotgun markings 1865 to 1914" by Joseph T. Vorisek lists Samuel Buckley & Co. as an English retailer with shotgun actions that appear to have been made by Westley Richards.

A link to an ad that ran in the December 14, 1882 Edition of Forest and Stream is below. It advertises them as agents in the US for Westley Richards:

http://books.google.com/books?id=K0ohAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA400&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U11eTHd064JuzujaCzJr_vG9IR2xw&ci=25%2C15%2C968%2C746&edge=0

http://books.google.com/books?id=K0ohAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA279&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U1l3vSobEZMahnT3c4J4qc52CXdEQ&ci=20%2C13%2C927%2C766&edge=0

http://books.google.com/books?id=K0ohAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA520&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U3g2_xXDwm1b5yDMLEf5Sktk80fWQ&ci=29%2C92%2C964%2C677&edge=0

I can not figure out how to attach the pictures. I hope the links work. You need to copy and paste them to your browser.

J. Palmer O'Neil was into all types of ventures.This story was on several web sites:

"A duck hunt in the fall of 1883 proved to be a very significant day for hunters and trapshooters in America. Frank Chamberlin invited J. Palmer O'Neil, president of the Pittsburgh Firearms Co., to shoot ducks on a marsh near Chamberlin's home in Cleveland, Ohio. The quality of the shells provided by Chamberlin impressed O'Neil. When he learned the ammunition had been loaded on a machine Chamberlin invented, his eyes lit up with dollar signs. Up to that time, all shells were loaded by hand with components supplied almost exclusively by the Union Metallic Cartridge Co. and the Winchester Repeating Arms Co., both Connecticut companies. Mass-produced shotgun shells were unheard of, and Mr. O'Neil quickly recognized the tremendous profits in store-bought, loaded shells.

Soon, with O'Neil's money and Chamberlin's loading invention, the Chamberlin Cartridge and Target Co. was born.

The timing couldn't have been better for an ammunition company just getting started. Bogardus and Carver were touring the country for George Ligowsky, promoting his new clay target that was quickly replacing the glass target ball. Gun clubs were being organized in every little town, and millions of game birds were being shot annually for market and sport. Chamberlin's first automatic loading machine produced from 1,200 to 1,500 shotgun shells an hour. It was housed in a building owned by Chamberlin's former employer, J. H. Webster.

Like O'Neil, Webster quickly recognized the potential of the product manufactured in his barn, and he wanted to be included in the profit picture. Expansion was a necessity and funds were short. The new firm hired Webster after he loaned the company a sizeable amount of money. Business flourished, and soon a new factory in San Francisco served the Western market."

In the 1890's old J. Palmer O'neil owned the Pittsburgh Nationals baseball team. During the baseball rivalries between the two major leagues in the 1890s, the Pittsburgh Nationals took advantage of a technicality and signed a player away from another club. The Nationals' president, J. Palmer O'Neill, was called J. "Pirate" O'Neill, and his club became the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Everything I have read makes me think that this is all the same guy. If anyone else has any information to share, I'd sure like to hear it.

My 16 gauge damascus Samuel Buckley:


















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Thanks great info here. Now I know it's subjective but what do you all think a starting price would be for this item. We have no clue here.

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