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#248141 10/15/11 09:55 AM
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I pose a question for the readers of this forum. As lead shot is and will be eventually banned,steel shot will be the only economic alternate for most shooters. The problem is that we are trying to use steel in guns that were never intended to use it.
The 12 bore cartridge has changed very little since its general adoption 150 years ago, Ok components have changed so has the powder but in essence it is still the same and bore sizes although standardised across the world have remained unchanged.
Compare the 8 common shot gun bores the the hundreds of rifle calibers that have come and gone in the same period. Thus we need to start from scratch and design a new cartridge.

The challenge is to design a ballistically perfect cartridge that will replace the old 12 Ga [et al] 1& 1/8 oz load. Then to design a barrel to shoot it from . It may end up as an 11&1/4 Ga 2 &11/16 ,or some other weird size, you may need 2" chamber cones and continuous taper chokes . I don't know. I have neither the knowledge or skill with computer aided design to do so,but I see no reason why it can not be done.
Lets be honest there are millions to be made and if you do, please remember it was my idea.

gunman #248146 10/15/11 10:49 AM
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I think that ship has already sailed.


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gunman #248147 10/15/11 10:51 AM
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One of the biggest mistakes is that of referring to all non-lead shot as 'non-toxic shot' which implies we somehow accept that lead is therefore toxic in nature. Even common table salt is toxic if you eat enough; and so is lead if you are stupid enough to ingest enough. Most lead shot passes through the system intact without causing much harm. How many people do you know wh have died from eating it? Why is the area around well established clay pigeon shoots not a mass of dead and dying animals? Because lead is not that toxic that it needs banning. It is just convincing those who pass laws to understand this and for us to not allow those who seek to ban shooting in all its forms by cusing laws to ban lead shot to be enacted. There are plenty of new guns that can handle steel. Steel is a very poor alternative to lead and probably cripples more than it kills. I won't use the rubbish. It's o.k. for clays as the disciplines can be adjusted to cope with its poor ballistics. It will be a sad day for shooting if lead is banned. Bismuth and Tungsten will be in such demand that there will be a great shortage worldwide and game shooting will be priced out. I would like to see good concrete evidence that it is harmful. If shown that is the case I will be the first to stop using it and give up shooting. Lagopus.....

gunman #248148 10/15/11 10:58 AM
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With current economies, no one will touch it within 10 years, if ever. Manufacturing is holding on for its life, no mood for innovation to accommodate waning numbers of hunters. As for a ballistically perfect cartridge, there are too many variables of range and game. I think my 7 X 57mm rifle has "ballistically perfect" loads for my needs in eastern Canada. Those who hunt the mountains of western Canada or Alaska have different notions entirely.

gunman #248151 10/15/11 11:58 AM
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King, I think your 7 X 57mm will do just fine in the western mountains, no matter where they are located.


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Don Moody #248155 10/15/11 12:27 PM
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Thanks, Don, I didn't want to be TOO partisan!

gunman #248168 10/15/11 02:09 PM
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Lapogus you have pointed out that steel shot isa poor substitute for lead ,I agree but my point is that you are not useing a gun or cartridge that is designed for steel shot .This like trying to do is strap a couple of turbo jets on to a DC3 and wonder why the wings come off. A 12 bore cartridge is not suited to steel shot in the same way.

gunman #248188 10/15/11 06:01 PM
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It really doesn't matter what size you bore the hole down the bbl, this isn't going to correct the faults of steel shot. The fault of steel shot isn't in the size of bore, but in the density of the metal.

Rifles are an entirely different matter than shotguns due to the multiple pellets of the later vs the single projectile of a rifle. Compare the ballistics for instance of a 180 grain .30 cal bullet with that of a 180 grain round ball (approx .50 Cal).

If for instance you could come up with little steel bullets, .130" in dia & having a round nose with sufficient length to weigh the same as a #4 lead pellet & could keep them point on as they went down range then the steel would be as effective as the lead. Doing this though is not a matter of hole size in the barrel.

The shotgun is pretty much saddled with little round pellets.


Miller/TN
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gunman #248191 10/15/11 06:26 PM
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When the market demands steel loads safe for old doubles the major maunfacturers will develop, produce, and sell them. Thicker wads to slip through tight chokes that also will not release shot until they leave the barrel will be safe for our cherished SxS's.

Increasing the velocity to compensate for the steel pellets lower density and retained energy will be hard on 100 year old stocks! I do think that some smart engineer will figure it out when there is sufficient demand to justify investment in the research and development, and production of such ammunition.

Mark

Last edited by MarkOue; 10/15/11 06:28 PM.

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The idea is a new caliber for a new gun .

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